FBRacing

Just a simple ECR33. Not the 400r or any other SE models

Aren’t the stock GTST 16x6.5 et40 with 205/55? Not crazy low. Top of tires are at top arch of fender. Maybe I’m adding a degree or so. It’s been a few clicks since last measured. I may be wrong.

Flush fit for an GTS-T is 18x8.5 et35 with 245/40 neg 2-3° camber with rolled inner lip and 18x9.5 et30 with 265/35 neg 3-4° camber with rolled inner lip. It’s plausible to fit 10 or 10.5 in rear with correct offset but not too many wheel companies offer that offset. GTS-T’s have the in-between wheel well where the shock the fender distance is widely different versus the masses of other popular cars.

Sorry I haven't responded any sooner. Holidays are a bitch. Water to air is amazing. The benefits are staggering compared to air to air. Reason why most don't deal with it... really couldn't say. It may be the cost of the system or intimidation. My R33 is air to air but I do own a Honda CRX with water to air. I also have a "ice box" with it to drop in ice on the cooling coils to drop temps even further. Been playing around liquid CO2 too but that's another story[emoji850]. Water to air is a complete closed system. Instead of a front mount intercooler you have another radiator and you intercooler is under the hood inline and just a little before the throttle butterfly. I've found BOV before cooler works better than after. The tricky part is finding a water to air cooler that will flow allow high flow but also do its job cooling. Front mounts are usually only 3 inches thick. Water coolers are sometimes 10-12 inches long. It's all about sq inch. Too tight restricts but cools amazingly, to big flows but doesn't cool and aiding into heat soak. It's a great deal research and experimenting to get it right. At least that was the case for me. eBay kits are cheap but you'll hurt yourself with air temps not where you are wanting them. http://www.siliconeintakes.com/front-mount-intercooler/water-to-air-intercooler-p-1007.html Heres someone's kit but most likely won't do much for you. It's a lot of tuning to get it right. Not nearly as simple as bolting on a front mount but I do encourage you to try, research, and set yourself apart.

Why don't you do a water/air cooler? Usually extremely efficient and if resourceful can be cheap in cost.

I just realized that Hardsteppa never disclosed what his cup of tea is. This for track, weekend warrior, daily? I have been placing my suggestions in thought of a daily driver with occasional light touge. Maybe the OP can shed some light on what he's aiming for and as a group be able to better suggest what could work for him.

I agree with ya except on one thing. Drilled rotors actually have a function. They let pad gases escape. The reason for slots is to help the pads not to glaze by aggressively wearing the pad surface. But with technology today, most pads but not all do not need drilled and slotted rotors. So to me, I'd rather change pads and pay that money for harder bite in a shorter amount of time. Otherwise you're 100% correct and I already knew you were an engineer. You and a few others are the only ones with factual science to their posts.

If you guys really care, here's a good publish on thermal properties on disc brakes. http://www.researchgate.net/publictopics.PublicPostFileLoader.html?id=528a549bd2fd64d9088b4641&key=9c960528a549bb5223

While eating dinner, I thought I should explain that the OP never mentioned he was going to track the car and with a $800 brake upgrade budget, that's why I suggested drilled/slotted rotors w/matching pads. Drilled and slotted rotors do not decrease heat soak but increase it. Reducing rotor mass takes away the heat soaking properties. BUT.... If it's for a street car, this is ideal with this size of rotor. Rotors and also pads have a temperature in which they become most effective. These temps will be steady while driving on the streets but once on the track, rotor mass is what you want to dissipate heat at a higher rate. I could write a book on brakes and the science but that's for another time. [emoji57]

It's was kinda being implied by the drilled/slotted rotors

This completely is my opinion and what I see what works from my experience of being involved in racing for nearly 40 years and what I was taught from the generations before me from their racing experience. (I was born into a family of Motorsports enthusiasts) If your pads are able to touch from top of rotor and as close to the hat as possible, you will have the best braking power possible. Once you go to a larger rotor and the caliper moves higher on the rotor, your braking force is reducing. You're not taking full advantage of the rotors capability. To gain true braking power utilizing a 340mm diameter rotor you'd have to use a caliper and pad combo that would bite on 95% of the rotor or more to be a worthy upgrade. Otherwise in my eyes and experience, you're filling up the wheel with unnecessary rotation mass and adding corner weight. I see it like adding chrome 20" spinning wheels and adding a carbon hood to say you're worried about weight. Brake spring is a term I'm not sure if you understand but there is a point in the chassis that will act "springy" once you hard brake. Remember that these cars mounting points are simple stamped tin steel. It's the same concept of that of body flex around an apex hence people add chassis bars (i.e. tower bars and that alike). So if you take in account of brake spring, unused rotor surface, increasing corner weight, and uneven wear to pads and rotors you end up taking several steps back in a performance and function stand point. If cosmetics supersedes function than you are on the right track. Don't get me wrong, it's great to see huge rotors filling up large wheels because frankly it's just funny looking to have all that empty space in there but I'm more a functional and practical type of gearhead. Probably why most of my projects never get past the body work stage with the exterior part. [emoji28] So all in all, I'd personally find a suitable caliper or reduce rotor size while upgrading to drilled/slotted with matching pads. To me it's that simple.

I didn't completely understand what you are trying to achieve. This is the first time you mentioning you're retaining 17" wheels. With this in mind this is what I suggest. Retaining the stock Sumitomo caliper from the R33. Going back to the original 296x30 rotor size but in a better material and drilled/slotted. Use a matching pad that compliments the rotor. Largest mistake people make is mismatching pad to rotor. Do a complete brake fluid flush and bring it up to DOT5 to raise your boiling point. Change all rubber lines to steel braided. Your cooling temps would dramatically increase, stopping power increase, and a term in F1 racing that is called brake spring to come down to a minimum. You could also utilize duct work from your front bumper and aim it to the rotors if you're really heating them up that quickly. Believe me or not, the 296x30 rotor is an exceptionally large rotor for the size and weight of a R33. If you do the work yourself and shop for prices, you'll be under your $800 budget and have better braking power than trying to go larger. I see a lot of shitty brake upgrades these days and makes me scratch my head. Also, you seem like the person that even if a mechanical engineer that specializes in brakes would suggest on what you should do when you ask for their advice, you'd be hard headed enough to say you're wrong cause it goes against your theories or ideas. Not everyone on here is fresh out of high school. There's a great deal of people who have been around the block more than a few times that have experienced what you're going through. Trust me, you're not the first one to try to do a "budget" big brake kit. I hope you find what you're after.

There is such a thing called too much brake. Too much and you'll lock up with ease once rotor and pad temps reach optimal. Have you changed out the master cylinder? 15/16 to 1" or bigger? Changing the master cylinder greatly increases pedal feel but also can be too much at the same time. Braided lines to reduce line surge? Or is this an effort to fill in your wheels more? The Akebono 370z calipers would suit your needs better than the Sumitomo R33 to fit over larger rotors. From there you can fit the 355mm rotors and maintain maximum pad contact without trimming the crucial material from the caliper. Just my suggestion.

Near flush on a GTST rear with a 10" wide is 30-35 offset and a 1.3"ish" in. Not sure what your regulations are to maintain a roadworthy car where you are at but it sounds like you'd have to either change your offset or possibly get flares to cover up. The others on here will have better insight on your local laws than I.

Please feel free to add or correct any info. Came across this and made a few corrections already. I do not take any credit on this cause I don't have enough time on my hands to do this and I lost the link to it. I hope this helps anyone's personal decision on what turbo will work for them. Turbo Short Info Mitsu turbos: Mitsubishi uses TD04, TD05, TD06, TD07, TD08...to designates turbo housing. For example, TD05H-16G 7cm^2 is a turbo with, * TD05 turbine housing with 'H' style turbine wheel. There are S, SH, H... style of turbine wheel/housing. * 16G compressor wheel. 16 is the size of the wheel, 1.83 inducer, 2.37 exducer. There is no direct correlation between MHI designation and actual physical size of the compressor wheel. G is the style of wheel (uneven height of blades). C, B, T style wheel's blades have the same height. Blades are equally spaced, but the number and pitch of the blades vary between models. * 8cm^2 is referring to exhaust discharge area in the turbine housing. More specifically, it is the smallest cross-sectional area of the scroll, turbine housing. Very similar to Garrett turbo's A/R. The smaller number means faster spool-up but more back pressure at higher rpm. Bigger number means longer spool up but less back pressure, thus more top end power. Greddy modifies Mitsu turbos. I don't have any published specs for Greddy turbos and i have not taken any time to measure them. It's possible some of turbos have different specs from Mistubishi. Also, both Greddy TD05 and TD06 use 3 bolt turbine flange where as Mistubishi's uses 4 bolt flanges. Bisides the TD04, TD05, TD06, TD07 and TD08 turbos, Greddy also makes hybrid turbo, T67 is TD07 compressor and TD06 turbine, same turbo as TD06SH-25G. T78 is the compressor of TD08 and turbine of TD07, T88 uses compressor and turbine from TD08. Garrett Turbos: Garrett basically has two lines of turbos. The ancient, inefficient T series turbos and the new, modern, ball bearing GT series turbos. * T family has T22, T25, T3, T350, To4B, To4E, TS04, To4R ...These are 50 year old, WWII generation turbos. * The newer line of GT turbos are ball bearing on journal and thrust bearing. The turbine and compressor wheels are improvely aerodynamically to flow more air. GT20, GT22, GT25, GT30, GT35, GT40, GT45, GT50... GT turbos produce slightly more hp then older T series turbos with the same number designation. A GT Garrett turbine wheel wil flow more air than similar sized Greddy turbine wheel. Thus GT turbos are able to boost higher and flow more. Turbonetics and many domestic makers turbos based on T series turbos. A T3/To4E 60 T .63A/R is a hybrid turbo with T3 turbine, To4E compressor, 60 Trim compressor wheel and .63 A/R turbine housing. Wheel "trim" refers to the squared ratio of the smaller diameter divided by the larger diameter times 100. Generally, the larger the trim number the more flow the wheel has. For compressor wheels , larger trim tends to mean slightly lower efficiency. For "families" of turbine wheels (those with the same inducer diameter), larger trim usually means better flow with less backpressure but longer spool time. A/R is a ratio of the exhaust discharge area vs the distance from the center of turbine wheel to the center of the cross sectional area. Smaller A/R housing has faster spool up. Bigger A/R housing has less back pressure, more flow for the top end. The so called "T-series': T60, T61, T66, T70, T72, T76... are T4 turbos as well. The number means the compressor inducer size. ie: T76 means it has 76mm compressor inducer. HKS uses Garrett turbos. HKS GT series turbos use Garrett GT's turbine with GT's compressor. For example, HKS GT 2835 is GT28 turbine with GT35 52 trim compressor. The newer line of Garrett GT-R turbos are hybrid turbos. For example, GT30R is a hybrid of GT30 turbine mated to 56 trim GT37 compressor. Flow Rates @ 15psi: TDO4-9B-6CM2 265 CFM TDO5-12A-8CM2 320 CFM TDO4-13G-5CM2 360 CFM TEO4-13C-6CM2 360 CFM TDO4L-13G-6CM2 360 CFM TDO4L-15C-8.5CM2 390 CFM TDO5H-14B-6CM2 405 CFM TDO5H-14G-8CM2 465 CFM TDO5H-16G-7CM2 505 CFM TDO5H-16G-10CM2 505 CFM TDO6-17C-8CM2 550 CFM TDO6H-20G-14CM2 650 CFM TDO7S-25G-17CM2 850 CFM TFO8L-30V-18CM2 1200 CFM Max Output: TD05-14B (stock 1st gen) 275-300hp @ 21 psi TD05-16G (small) 345-365hp @ 22 psi TD06-16G (large) 365-385hp @ 22 psi TD06-20G 430-450hp @ 22 psi T25 (stock 2nd gen) 235-250hp @ ?? psi T3 (super 60)/T2.5 hybrid 265-280hp @ ?? psi T3 (super 60)/T2.8 hybrid 270-320hp @ ?? psi Evolution 1 Turbo = TDO5H–16G-7 Nozzle Area (cm2) = 7 Exhaust turbine = Inconel (steel alloy) Compressor = Aluminium, 60mm wide Evolution 2 Turbo = TDO5H–16G-7 Nozzle Area (cm2) = 7 Turbine = Inconel (steel alloy) Compressor = Aluminium, 60mm wide Evolution 3 Turbo = TD05H–16G6-7 Nozzle Area (cm2) = 7 Turbine = Inconel (steel alloy) Compressor = Aluminium, 68mm wide Evolution 4 Turbo = TD05HR-16G6-9T Nozzle Area (cm2) = 9 Turbine = Inconel (steel alloy) Compressor = Aluminium, 68mm wide Evolution 5 Turbo = TD05HR-16G6-10.5T (GSR) TD05HRA-16G6-10.5T (RS) Nozzle Area (cm2) = 10.5 Turbine = Inconel (steel alloy), Titanium alloy (RS) Compressor = Aluminium, 68mm wide Evolution 6 Turbo = TD05HR-16G6-10.5T (GSR) TD05HRA-16G6-10.5T (RS/rs2) Nozzle Area (cm2) = 10.5 Turbine = GSR - Inconel (steel alloy), Titanium alloy (RS/RS2) Compressor = Aluminium, 68mm wide Evolution 6 : Tommi Makinen Edition Turbo = TD05RA-15GK2-10.5T (GSR) TD05HRA-16G6-10.5T (RS/rs2) Nozzle Area (cm2) = 10.5 Turbine = Titanium alloy for both RS/RS2/GSR! Compressor = Aluminium, 65mm (gsr) - 68mm(rs) wide Evolution 7 Turbo = TD05HR-16G6-9.8T (GSR) TD05HRA-16G6-9.8T (RS/RS2) Nozzle Area (cm2) = 9.8 Turbine = GSR - Inconel (steel alloy), RS/Rs2=Titanium alloy Compressor = Aluminium, 68mm wide Evolution 7 GTA Turbo = TD05-15GK2-9.0T Nozzle Area (cm2) = 9.0 Turbine = Inconel (steel alloy) Compressor = Aluminium, 65mm wide Evolution 8 Turbo = TD05HR-16G6-9.8T (GSR / USDM E TD05HRA-16G6-9.8T (RS/RS2) Nozzle Area (cm2) = 9.8 Turbine = USDM EVO 8 & JDM GSR =Inconel (steel alloy), RS/Rs2=Titanium alloy. Compressor = Aluminium, 68mm wide All Evo 4-8 Turbos are twin scroll designs meaning that the engines exhaust is divided into two channels (see first pic). As the engine exhausts in pulses.. its supposed to result in quicker spooling. From the Evo 4 onwards, the Turbo spins in the opposite direction, i.e. Anticlockwise (hence the R in the turbo name). The Titanium Alumnide alloy used in the RS/RS2 and some GSRS (factory option) has less inertia and thus spins up around 500 rpm sooner. These Titanium turbos can be indentified by the A in their name. Mitsubishi: 16g = 34lb/min Big 16g = 36lb/min EVO III Big 16g = 36-40lb/min (DSMLink has logged several 40+) NEW!!! 20g = 44lb/min Forced Performance: Big28 = 37lb/min FP2544 = 44lb/min (56trim/ dual BB) Sleeper 16g = 44lb/min Green = 49lb/min (50 trim) FP49 = 49lb/min (50 trim, T31 turbine) Red = 60lb/min (60-1 trim, dyno 520whp) FP3052 = 52lb/min (dyno 504whp) FP3065 = 65lb/min (dyno 585whp) FP58 = 65lb/min (GT40 56 trim comp. wheel, .49A/R PTE, T350 turbine) AGP: T28 = 36lb/min (TB03 compressor) RS43 = 43lb/min (46 trim T04E) SS44 = 44lb/min (It is a 44lb/min but not a 48trim. It is not a GT30 at all. It’s special, topsecret, Kevin) RS49 = 49lb/min (50 trim T04E) RS60 = 60lb/min (60-1 trim) (claimed 534whp) RS65 = 65lb/min (56 trim GT40) DSM Performance/Extreme Turbo: ETA12 = 36lb/min (S-trim, ETA comp housing) ETA32 = 48lb/min (50 trim, ETA comp housing) ETE32 = 48lb/min (50 trim, T04E comp housing) ETE42 = 50lb/min (60 trim, TO4E) ETE52 = 55lb/min (60-1 trim, TO4E) ETE53 = 55lb/min (60-1 trim, T04E) NEW!!! ETE73 = 72lb/min (T66 comp wheel, T04E) NEW!!! Buschur Racing: BR-BIG28 = (claimed 350hp) NEW!!! BR20G = (TD05/6 hybrid, first in 10s) BR475 = (No info as of yet) NEW!!! BR57 = (Garrett T3/T4) BR500 = (claimed 504whp) BR580 = (claimed 575whp) BR675 = (No info as of yet) NEW!!! Slowboy Racing: SBR-M50 = 48lb/min (50 trim) SBR-M60 = 60lb/min (60-1 trim) SBR-GT10 = 44lb/min (48 trim, dual BB) SBR-GT11 = (No info as of yet) NEW!!! SBR-GT12 = 55lb/min (56 trim, dual BB) SBR-GT13 = 60lb/min (60 trim, dual BB) SBR-GT14 = 65lb/min (56 trim, dual BB) SBR-GT35R = (No info as of yet) NEW!!! SBR-GT30R = (No info as of yet) NEW!!! SBR-G50 = 48lb/min (50 trim, T04E) NEW!!! SBR-G57 = 55lb/min (56 trim, T04E) NEW!!! SBR-60-1 = 60lb/min (60-1 trim, T04E) NEW!!! Frankenstein Turbos: Frank 1 = 46 trim, 20*clipped TD05H turbine, TD05H 7cm2 housing Frank 2 = 46 trim, unclipped TD06 turbine, TD05H 7cm2 housing Frank 50 = 50 trim, unclipped TD06 turbine, TD05H 7cm2 housing Frank 3 = 54 trim, unclipped TD06 turbine, TD05H 7cm2 housing Frank 57 = 57 trim, unclipped TD06 turbine, TD05H 7cm2 housing Frank 4 = 60 trim, 10*clipped TD06 turbine, TD05H 7cm2 housing Frank 5 = 60 trim, unclipped TD06H turbine, TD05H 7cm2 housing Frank 6 = 60 trim, unclipped TD06H turbine, TD05H 8cm2 housing Frank 7 = 60 trim, 10*clipped TD06H turbine, TD05H 8cm2 housing GT30 (ball bearing) turbos: 48 trim = 44lbs/min 52 trim = 50lbs/min 56 trim = 55lbs/min 60 trim = 60lbs/min gt35 trim = 65lbs/min Garrett: T-28 = 34lb/min (350BHP) 50 trim = 47lb/min 57 trim = 49lb/min 60-1 = 65lb/min The following is from Turbonetics Catalog: On TO4E Compressor housings: 50-trim = 47lbs/min 54-trim = 45lbs/min 57-trim = 49lbs/min 60-trim = 50lbs/min T-100 = 180lbs/min TO4B compressor housing: 60-1 = 65lbs/min 62-1 = 70lbs/min Compressor Turbine comp avg Trim Inducer/ Minor Dia. Exducer/ Exducer/ Inducer/ Trim Major Dia. Minor Dia. Major Dia. TD04-09B 50 1.365 1.93 1.55 1.86 1.6475 TD04-13G 62 1.58 2 1.625 1.812 1.79 T3 35 1.396 2.367 1.8815 TB02 22 1.56 1.989 1.517 1.833 1.9015 TD04H-15C 1.638 2.165 1.743 2.028 1.9015 TD04-15G 55 1.625 2.187 1.625 1.812 1.906 TD04H-15G 55 1.625 2.187 1.74 2.047 1.906 Mk 4 CT-12 1.535 2.283 1.732 2.047 1.909 T3 40 1.484 2.367 1.9255 T3 45 1.595 2.367 1.981 TD05H-14B 55 1.695 2.285 1.93 2.2 1.99 TD05-16G 1.814 2.223 1.911 2.184 2.0185 T3 50 1.674 2.367 2.0205 TD05H-14G 62 1.8 2.285 1.93 2.2 2.0425 TD04-17G 54 1.744 2.382 1.625 1.812 2.063 T3 55 1.76 2.367 2.0635 TD05H-16G 60 1.83 2.365 1.93 2.2 2.0975 TD04-18T 1.625 1.812 T3 60 1.83 2.367 2.0985 GT2510 63 1.86 2.344 1.626 2.067 62 2.102 GT2530 63 1.86 2.344 1.883 2.098 76 2.102 T3 Super 60 1.9 2.367 2.1335 Mk 3 CT-26 1.811 2.559 2.047 2.677 2.185 TD05H-16G 50 1.892 2.68 1.93 2.2 2.286 TD05H-18A 50 1.9 2.68 1.93 2.2 2.29 TD05-18G 1.97 2.652 1.911 2.184 2.311 T04B S 1.904 2.75 2.327 TD05H-18G 55 1.992 2.68 1.93 1.93 2.336 GT2835 48 1.923 2.773 2.02 2.204 84 2.348 TD06-20G 2.051 2.652 2.149 2.535 2.3515 TD05H-20G 60 2.07 2.68 1.93 2.2 2.375 GTRS 52 1.997 2.773 1.833 2.098 76 2.385 GT2835 52 1.997 2.773 2.02 2.204 84 2.385 T04B T 5/6 2.032 2.75 2.391 GT35 52 2.016 2.795 2.453 2.677 84 2.4055 T04E 40 1.87 2.95 2.41 GT2835 56 2.071 2.773 2.02 2.204 84 2.422 GT2835R 56 2.071 2.773 2.09 2.204 90 2.422 T04B Super S 1.904 3 2.452 T04B V 2.18 2.75 2.465 T04E 46 2.003 2.95 2.4765 GT2540 46 2.016 2.972 1.833 2.098 76 2.494 GT3037 48 2.059 2.972 2.145 2.34 84 2.5155 T04B H 2.298 2.75 2.524 GT3037 52 2.145 2.972 2.145 2.34 84 2.5585 T04E 54 2.17 2.95 2.56 HKS T04E 57 2.196 2.925 2.266 2.785 62 2.5605 T04E 50 2.122 3 2.561 GT37 52 2.157 2.992 2.614 2.854 84 2.5745 GT35 2.157 2.997 2.453 2.677 84 2.577 T04B Super V 2.18 3 2.59 T04E 57 2.23 2.95 2.59 GT3037 56 2.223 2.972 2.145 2.34 84 2.5975 T04E 60 2.29 2.95 2.62 HKS T04S 60 2.301 2.972 2.523 2.894 76 2.6365 T04B Super H 2.298 3 2.649 T04B 60-1 2.324 3 2.662 T04B 62-1 2.441 3 2.7205 GT3040 50 2.262 3.198 2.145 2.34 84 2.73 GT40 50 2.283 3.228 2.591 3.031 73 2.7555 GT3240 54 2.352 3.198 2.106 2.289 84 2.775 GT37 2.327 3.228 2.614 2.854 84 2.7775 TS04 (T-57) 2.3 3.304 2.802 HKS T04R 63 2.601 3.276 2.523 2.894 76 2.9385 T-61 2.382 3.544 2.963 HKS T04R/GT63 GT63 2.626 3.307 2.547 2.921 GT76 2.998 GT40 54 2.547 3.465 2.547 3.031 84 3.006 T-78 GREDDY 2.598 3.543 2.559 2.913 3.0705 T-88 GREDDY 33D 2.598 3.543 2.846 3.346 3.0705 T-64 2.49 3.67 3.08 T-66 2.58 3.584 3.082 HKS T51 KAI 56 2.742 3.666 2.785 3.198 76 3.204 T-88 GREDDY 34D 2.744 3.74 2.846 3.346 3.242 T-70 2.72 3.85 3.285 T-72 2.84 4.03 3.435 GT42 53 2.925 4.016 2.961 3.228 84 3.4705 HKS T51 SPL 56 2.984 3.986 2.785 3.198 76 3.485 T-76 3.02 4.03 3.525