East West Tunnel Mess

[Dobz]

Overhead freeways a top existing roadways would be the most sensible way to upgrade. If you have a fairly extensive overhead freeway map you could hop suburb to suburb or get out of the metro area quickly without clogging suburban roads.

There would no doubt be a lot of whingers crying about how they look though.

[xALmoN]

They look great, singapore is full of that nonsense.

Engineering ingenuity. Tunnels are shit.

[dezz]

Well it's literally half as bad..

Considering the guy 8 bil out has to get his figures from stuff he reads, and the guys 4bil out is from the guys in charge of paying for it with our money, I'd say he's done pretty well to only be 8bil out.

[alr33x]

Still pretty paltry compared to your mates

http://backwardsunderlabor.com.au/wp-content/uploads/2014/11/LaborsLegacy-A-history-of-failed-projects-1999-2010.pdf

[Cowboy1600]

err i got nothing 'gainst you cowboy... but umm there is already something called Bass Link.

Underwater DC cable that tassie supplies to victoria (for a profit during peak loading) due to their abundance of hydro generators. and unfortunately a lot of the time these sorts of decisions arent made by government, just allowed by them, because there are private companies that generally plan and research these sorts of ideas. and make sure theyre profitable and generally keep most people happy.

...unlike the desal.

Basslink is bi-directional so when Loy Yang is generating excess Tassy can take some and they can send some back if they have it to spare and we require it. On top of that it supplies only a fraction of our power. On top of that again we can exist without power.

A water pipe would be one way. On top of that, if you compare it to the Sugarloaf Pipeline, the cost would be astronomical. The Sugarloaf pipeline cost $750m and is 70ks long over land. Double the length, increase the diameter pipe and lay it 70 meters under the sea and then pay for it. Minimum it'd be around $2B just on length alone. Add in complexity of underwater and I'd be surprised if there was much change from $10B. All that for a pipe which still relies on rain and also the goodwill of the Tassie government to continue selling us the water without interruption. No thanks. Give me desal any day.

[R31Nismoid]

For what it's worth it was labor who back flipped on the last lot of road tolling after promising not too.. Spose they'd figure half a billion for nothin is cheap compared to a billion dollar desal plant that's never been turned on

Exactly.

Better we cut our losses and get away from that dog of a policy than charge on and spend $18B (which would no doubt have blown out to $30B once all was said and done) on a piece of shit.

No different to the NBN of $30b that was re-costed to be over $90b really because the initial NBN figures assumed every house would take it up - and that'll never happen.

Same same whichever way you look at it. Different Gov't, same rubbish. Fact of life here in this country.

And just to get an idea of how much 18 billion is in comparison to the countrys road infrastructure budget...

This is the 7 year budget, btw not just 1 year

The Syndey harbour tunnel was built for just over half a billion ....

Yeah the Harbour tunnel was also built how long ago? Oh yeah, like 1992.

It's roughly 1.5km long. It's also tolls on it and is only two lanes - which are now absolute gridlock most of the time, if you've ever driven in it... It now needs to be 4 lanes each way, realistically.

So add two more lanes and an extra 3km and 25 years of wages, insurance and every other f**king gov't group trying to justify their existence getting a piece of the pie with bullshit regulations and red tape... And voila. That's the cost of doing business in this over controlled joke of a state/country.

I call bullshit on it's inevitability. And even if it is, it's still not a good investment at this point in time. Spend the money on projects which will give a better return. Once it works it's way to the top of the pile from a CBA perspective then build it.

Regarding public transport, just because you don't use it doesn't mean it's no good. There are loooots of people who rely on public transport and lots who would, if it were more accessible. A rail line out to Mernda would take thousands of cars off the road daily in the north east and even the Eastern. My brother in law is fairly typical of people out that way. He works for Telstra and has almost no option but to drive. The car parks at any station within cooee are full by 6:30am so he drives to work in the city. If he was within walking distance, or an acceptable push bike trip to a station he would catch the train. There are lots and lots of people like him on those outer suburbs.

Except there are two train lines to choose from. The Craigieburn or Epping lines which are at best a 15min drive away, or one could catch a bus to said stations.

Mernda is a commuter suburb, you were always going to have to drive if you chose to live there and work CBD.

A rail link to Doncaster or even the Airport link would both be needed before a train to Mernda. Airport link was was being discussed when i was growing up in the Western Suburbs so that puts it back to the 1990's...

But then look at how badly Myki was f**ked up - this stage (irrespective of who is running it) - can't even get a basic f**king thing like a ticketing system working properly. How can you expect them to get an entire public transport system working properly?

-----

My view is simple - all politics aside - the tunnel is needed to link ALL major arterials. If it doesn't get done now, when does it get done? How much will it cost then?

Not only from a traffic/growth perspective but also a jobs one. The project was already under way. I know engineers who'd been working on the project for 12 months already.

It's been replaced with what? Nothing... There is no replacement project of decent size that is ready to go.

And the Western Distributor that's been proposed is going to cost $6b (near enough the same as stage 1 E-W Link) doesn't make a lot of sense. It's just an Eastern Freeway / Hoddle St ending all over again with dumping traffic on the CBD fringe and doing nothing to help it. Even widening the West Gate FWY - but not the actual bridge - What's the point of getting more cars to a bottleneck?

There is absolutely need to fix public transport as well, agree with people there. Refer earlier comments about Myki for thoughts on that one.

Politics these days is just about the 4 years. No bastard is properly planning for the next 20-30 years. We've got developments going up along all the train lines and major freeways with nothing being done to help said freeway/pub trans lines cope with the extra influx of people. The compound of this is people living in commuter suburbs are burning and will forever be burning. There are far more dangerous issues with that like house pricing in said areas long term etc etc but that's another discussion.

It's all just a f**king cock jerk in state/federal politics right now.

[R31Nismoid]

For what it's worth it was labor who back flipped on the last lot of road tolling after promising not too.. Spose they'd figure half a billion for nothin is cheap compared to a billion dollar desal plant that's never been turned on

Exactly.

Better we cut our losses and get away from that dog of a policy than charge on and spend $18B (which would no doubt have blown out to $30B once all was said and done) on a piece of shit.

No different to the NBN of $30b that was re-costed to be over $90b really because the initial NBN figures assumed every house would take it up - and that'll never happen.

Same same whichever way you look at it. Different Gov't, same rubbish. Fact of life here in this country.

And just to get an idea of how much 18 billion is in comparison to the countrys road infrastructure budget...

This is the 7 year budget, btw not just 1 year

The Syndey harbour tunnel was built for just over half a billion ....

Yeah the Harbour tunnel was also built how long ago? Oh yeah, like 1992.

It's roughly 1.5km long. It's also tolls on it and is only two lanes - which are now absolute gridlock most of the time, if you've ever driven in it... It now needs to be 4 lanes each way, realistically.

So add two more lanes and an extra 3km and 25 years of wages, insurance and every other f**king gov't group trying to justify their existence getting a piece of the pie with bullshit regulations and red tape... And voila. That's the cost of doing business in this over controlled joke of a state/country.

I call bullshit on it's inevitability. And even if it is, it's still not a good investment at this point in time. Spend the money on projects which will give a better return. Once it works it's way to the top of the pile from a CBA perspective then build it.

Regarding public transport, just because you don't use it doesn't mean it's no good. There are loooots of people who rely on public transport and lots who would, if it were more accessible. A rail line out to Mernda would take thousands of cars off the road daily in the north east and even the Eastern. My brother in law is fairly typical of people out that way. He works for Telstra and has almost no option but to drive. The car parks at any station within cooee are full by 6:30am so he drives to work in the city. If he was within walking distance, or an acceptable push bike trip to a station he would catch the train. There are lots and lots of people like him on those outer suburbs.

Except there are two train lines to choose from. The Craigieburn or Epping lines which are at best a 15min drive away, or one could catch a bus to said stations.

Mernda is a commuter suburb, you were always going to have to drive if you chose to live there and work CBD.

A rail link to Doncaster or even the Airport link would both be needed before a train to Mernda. Airport link was was being discussed when i was growing up in the Western Suburbs so that puts it back to the 1990's...

But then look at how badly Myki was f**ked up - this stage (irrespective of who is running it) - can't even get a basic f**king thing like a ticketing system working properly. How can you expect them to get an entire public transport system working properly?

-----

My view is simple - all politics aside - the tunnel is needed to link ALL major arterials. If it doesn't get done now, when does it get done? How much will it cost then?

Not only from a traffic/growth perspective but also a jobs one. The project was already under way. I know engineers who'd been working on the project for 12 months already.

It's been replaced with what? Nothing... There is no replacement project of decent size that is ready to go.

And the Western Distributor that's been proposed is going to cost $6b (near enough the same as stage 1 E-W Link) doesn't make a lot of sense. It's just an Eastern Freeway / Hoddle St ending all over again with dumping traffic on the CBD fringe and doing nothing to help it. Even widening the West Gate FWY - but not the actual bridge - What's the point of getting more cars to a bottleneck?

There is absolutely need to fix public transport as well, agree with people there. Refer earlier comments about Myki for thoughts on that one.

Politics these days is just about the 4 years. No bastard is properly planning for the next 20-30 years. We've got developments going up along all the train lines and major freeways with nothing being done to help said freeway/pub trans lines cope with the extra influx of people. The compound of this is people living in commuter suburbs are burning and will forever be burning. There are far more dangerous issues with that like house pricing in said areas long term etc etc but that's another discussion.

It's all just a f**king cock jerk in state/federal politics right now.

[Mohsen]

Can you enlighten us as to how the $18B would be better spent? Just for shits and giggles?

nukes.

[R31Nismoid]

lol

[Odium]

nukes.

Why does it ALWAYS come back to WMD's with you Moh?