Stagea Performance Upgrades & Power Results

[FAkbari]

Hi Everyone,

I've own a series 2 factory manual AWD Stagea, which I've had for nearly 5 years now and I have the usual supporting bolt-on mods with a Hypergear ATR45SAT (externally gated) turbo running 24psi on e85 making 355Kw. The car has been tuned by Trent from Chequered Tuning and has been running perfect to date. To provide further clarity my “supporting bolt-on” mods include larger turbo, FMIC, ID1000 injectors, z32 AFM, larger fuel pump, 3” exhaust and Nistune. The engine’s compression was also checked by my mechanic which was found to be fine and in good health - stock head and bottom end.

The reason for this (and whilst every car/engine is different) I feel that my car has been always slightly lacking in making power, when benchmarking to cars such as R33/34s with the same types of setups but different turbos (Garrett GTX3076R etc). Now I know most will say you can’t compare because one is AWD drive vs. RWD etc, I’m just curious to find out if anyone is potentially in the same boat as me and whether they were able to determine the root cause. To bring it into perspective, the size of my Hypergear turbo is somewhere in between a GTX3076R and GTX3582) which is why I am curious to try and find out if its purely the turbos being the main factor or something in the setup of my car causing the difference.

Some of you may have read a Facebook post from Tao (Hypergear) recently https://www.facebook.com/HyperGearTurbos/posts/10153095751873865, which was regarding benchmarking different types of intercoolers and piping setup; which could potentially be one of the reasons why cars lack in power. My car does have the Takashi 600x300x68mm cooler setup in return-flow mode, however I’m not convinced that this was a consistent test.

I would be greatly appreciated it in getting some feedback from others who have carried out similar performance upgrades with power outputs achieved, or had similar challanges and what they did as a result. At this stage my gut feel is that if I were to simply swap over to a similar Garrett GTX turbo; that it could potentially make up for the loss of power, however want to do some research first.

Thank you.

[KiwiRS4T]

I don't know what you are complaining about to be honest. If you are making 355AWKW or even RWKW from your unopened Neo motor you should be very happy. You have a top turbo builder and top tuner.

If anything you are right on the limit for the Z32 afm and you could either change that or throw it away altogether and get a Link ECU.

The simple answer would be to ask Trent what you need to make more power.

[Duncan]

lol that was my first thought too, 355 should be adequate to get your groceries home quickly

I don't know that it applies to the series2/NEO motor, but the S1 motor apparently has less aggressive cams than the skyline (not that I've ever had them measure to prove this). So if that's correct, a pair of cams might give you a bigger gain than normal.

[FAkbari]

Totally agree fellas - by no means am I complaining more curious as to whether others have gone through the same mod process what they experienced. I don't believe the z32 and nistune are contributing factors, as my tuner has seen 500kw engines running nistune etc. Duncan you've made a very good point regarding cam profile which would make sense and worth investigating, however it may not be the case with the Neo.

[KiwiRS4T]

Totally agree fellas - by no means am I complaining more curious as to whether others have gone through the same mod process what they experienced. I don't believe the z32 and nistune are contributing factors, as my tuner has seen 500kw engines running nistune etc. Duncan you've made a very good point regarding cam profile which would make sense and worth investigating, however it may not be the case with the Neo.

The Z32 AFM is a limiting factor whether you believe it or not - just ask Trent. I was not bagging the Nistune (although it works better on some engines than others) but just pointing out that as an alternative to getting a better AFM you could ditch it altogether if you get a Link.

[import_zone]

I know one of the guys here in Adelaide is at 344 AWKW in his S1 with a neo motor, using E85 and the 3076 turbo, talk to the guys at boost brothers performance as its one of there cars and he can help you in terms of what can be done, i believe only extra thing he has done on his car then you is a set of cams, and i think he is running less boost as well. I know he has a user name on here as well but cant remember it off the top of my head.

[Ben C34]

4bidn1

[FAkbari]

Cheers Ben will do.

[petero'nell]

The engine don't care what boost pressure it getting but the amount of air it gets, 20psi out of Disco isn't the same as 20psi out of a T88. Stao have proven bigger / better coolers delivers "more cold air", even by using another bigger Takashi cooler. Your turbo works much harder with smaller coolers, not been able to delivery the same amount of air as the bigger ones, and obviously alot hotter then the better ones.

Like everyone said, do you need more then 355awkws carry shopping trolleys. or be happy with it.

[FAkbari]

To the point that you are trying to make, others also have different opinions in that sometimes better cooling can affect flow or visa-versa. Tao's test was not only trying to point out that a superior core would provide better performance, but also that the amount of piping that could be reduced from re-configuring a return-flow type setup to use shorter length pipes can actually reduce lag and increase power. Having said that, others will say that if the turbo is big and efficient enough, that it should spool up and create enough pressure to push the air through to that extra distance.

I have spoken to Trent a few times about the situation on my car and again - I'm not complaining about the power that my car makes, more trying to understand why there is a difference in power between a R34 GTT running the exact same engine, mods and turbo etc.

There will always be a difference of opinion and advice, which is why I posted my topic wanting to see if anyone else with a Stagea actually had a similar experience to me, rather than whether I should be happy with 355Kw...

As per the previous post suggestion, I'll touch base with the boost brothers in Adelaide to see if they have any advice.

Cheers.

[KiwiRS4T]

I wouldn't like to think you were being kept awake at night unnecessarily so just how much more RWKW is your mate's Skyline making with the self same turbo, exhaust, return flow fmic and fuelling system as your Stagea?

AWD will take at least 10kw from your figure and a different dyno and operator could make twice that much difference again or more.

Boost (p.s.i.) is a measure of resistance not efficiency. If your mate has a different cooler then measure the airtemps at the inlet and outlet to see whose is better. The length of the piping will make a minute difference to lag and no difference to max power. All power to the "boost brothers" but Trent and Tao have a pretty good track record.

And by the way just how much power do YOU think your Z32 afm can handle (although actually Trent can probably push more than its rated maximum though it)?

[66yostagea]

The engine don't care what boost pressure it getting but the amount of air it gets, 20psi out of Disco isn't the same as 20psi out of a T88. Stao have proven bigger / better coolers delivers "more cold air", even by using another bigger Takashi cooler. Your turbo works much harder with smaller coolers, not been able to delivery the same amount of air as the bigger ones, and obviously alot hotter then the better ones.

Like everyone said, do you need more then 355awkws carry shopping trolleys. or be happy with it.

Yes. Bigger FMIC a good way to go for starters LOTS of cold air is what you need to take advantage of your fuel pump's capacity.

Fuel plus air = AWKW., but your electronics, and inlet and exhaust gasflow must be smooth as and spot on. You can't get it in if you haven't got it out.

I recently read about some Mid East Sheik has an R35 that delivers 2,200 HP. Mind you he spent our budget deficit on it.

[Cowboy1600]

Hi Everyone,

I've own a series 2 factory manual AWD Stagea, which I've had for nearly 5 years now and I have the usual supporting bolt-on mods with a Hypergear ATR45SAT (externally gated) turbo running 24psi on e85 making 355Kw. The car has been tuned by Trent from Chequered Tuning and has been running perfect to date. To provide further clarity my “supporting bolt-on” mods include larger turbo, FMIC, ID1000 injectors, z32 AFM, larger fuel pump, 3” exhaust and Nistune. The engine’s compression was also checked by my mechanic which was found to be fine and in good health - stock head and bottom end.

The reason for this (and whilst every car/engine is different) I feel that my car has been always slightly lacking in making power, when benchmarking to cars such as R33/34s with the same types of setups but different turbos (Garrett GTX3076R etc). Now I know most will say you can’t compare because one is AWD drive vs. RWD etc, I’m just curious to find out if anyone is potentially in the same boat as me and whether they were able to determine the root cause. To bring it into perspective, the size of my Hypergear turbo is somewhere in between a GTX3076R and GTX3582) which is why I am curious to try and find out if its purely the turbos being the main factor or something in the setup of my car causing the difference.

Some of you may have read a Facebook post from Tao (Hypergear) recently https://www.facebook.com/HyperGearTurbos/posts/10153095751873865, which was regarding benchmarking different types of intercoolers and piping setup; which could potentially be one of the reasons why cars lack in power. My car does have the Takashi 600x300x68mm cooler setup in return-flow mode, however I’m not convinced that this was a consistent test.

I would be greatly appreciated it in getting some feedback from others who have carried out similar performance upgrades with power outputs achieved, or had similar challanges and what they did as a result. At this stage my gut feel is that if I were to simply swap over to a similar Garrett GTX turbo; that it could potentially make up for the loss of power, however want to do some research first.

Thank you.

I've got an almost identical setup about to be strapped onto Trent's dyno. The only difference is I'm running 98 and will be leaving it RWD once it comes back.

I'd love 350 but realistically expect somewhere around 310-320 which is pretty much smack on what you get (allowing that 30ish kw for e85). If I get that it'll be a job well done and what I expect. I think your results are pretty much smack on the money for your setup.

[FAkbari]

Good luck buddy - keep me posted with your results. Let's hope you don't make more otherwise she'll be off the cliff! Lol!

[FAkbari]

Hey how did you go with your car? Were you happy with the results?

[Cowboy1600]

240kw at the rears.

We think the cooler is not up to the job and the plugs are in the wrong heat range.

I'll sort the plugs this weekend and start researching coolers.

It's still got great punch and runs very sweet but I'm 70kw short of expectations.

[Cowboy1600]

Just on that, what FMIC are you running?

[FAkbari]

I'm running the Katashi 68/70mm core with a return-flow kit that Havoc Fabrication made up for my car.

Best to check this link out as it will be worthwhile getting a quality core - https://www.facebook...53095751873865,

I’m also waiting on Trent to get back to me regarding the tests that Tao has carried out so I’ll let you know the outcome.

Is yours a return-flow setup?

[Cowboy1600]

I'm running the Katashi 68/70mm core with a return-flow kit that Havoc Fabrication made up for my car.

Best to check this link out as it will be worthwhile getting a quality core - https://www.facebook...53095751873865,

I’m also waiting on Trent to get back to me regarding the tests that Tao has carried out so I’ll let you know the outcome.

Is yours a return-flow setup?

Yep, is return flow.

I'll check out that kit. It obviously has the flow I need so could be a good option.

[XRATED]

First off, just swapping to a GTX isn't simple.

Secondly... there are a couple dozen significant reasons why 'my car doesn't make as much power as everyone else on the internets...' least of which the owners expectations.

Want a dyno sheet with more powers? go find a happy dyno elsewhere, then post on here how many more killer wasps were found lurking under the rocker covers.

What DO you expect from a cheap return flow cooler kit? 500awkw

J.

Edited July 27, 2015 by XRATED