RICE RACING
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Posts posted by RICE RACING
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There is a new alternative to the others mentioned here that will be released soon, been working on it for a while now.
I've done a bit on water injection as have many others > an external link for people interested in some of the details below its worth a read I think as it covers some of the control methods and hardware details not commonly known or discussed. https://www.syvecs.co.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=499&sid=7033ba860615fc3cf3a7de23768d620d&start=40
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You know Elon Muskrat has won a contract with the Lebanese space agency to make a special Uranus probe lander mission using emotionaltron ECU and GTST body shell with special hiflow fitted with EFR black series internals using all the hypothesis off this forum, he was saying the key is the independent staged drive by wire and keeping the turbo on the small side cause when you do a hektik launch everyone knows that its area under the curve that is important when going to Uranus
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I've been doing traction control before most of you could walk lol. You missed the point actually you dont get any of it I think as you are not an engine person nor someone who drives properly on track or road? just guessing there cause I cant really work out other than you wanting to type to read back your own posts what is the point.
You have two experienced people telling you why a wrong (smaller) turbo is inferior yet you keep on about doing it the ghetto way and not addressing any points.
I get it if you want to go slower and stress the engine more, other than that don't really get what you are on about honestly.
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28 minutes ago, 2pee said:
Ummm, SX-E bested EFR each time!
Can't beat a 13B turbo
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2 hours ago, Mick_o said:
Thats a pretty "broad statement " turbo size pends on many things. Too big of a turbo is exactly the same as too small of a turbo it depends where you drive the car as to where you need the grunt.
No it is not exactly the same, you are taking me out of context, I realize its a forum and everyone thinks their opinion is worthwhile but its actually useless cause if you take note I replied to the OP who brought it up and he shared his real world track experience and I have same experience personally and through end users.
Too small a turbo is a massive mistake on a track car end of story.
It is similar to adding traction control, this does not solve issue of lack of grip, the TC cant make more grip it can only let you use closer to the limit of what your car has. Too small a turbo cant be made to have more power than it can deliver, so the DBW comment was just a pointless bit of dibble put up to make someone feel good about themselves NOT to understand the point of the OP's post....... just another reason why forums are forums in the main part.
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On 4/9/2021 at 2:51 PM, burn4005 said:
thats a very non-DBW way of thinking of things. a responsive turbo gives you more control authority.
The DBW does nothing but mask the problem, it is still totally pointless restricting the engine when you actually need the power, the DBW cant magically 'add' power. And this is why its important to use the right turbo, way too many people get hung up on the modern bullshit as a panacea for bad fundamental choices, a loss is a loss, too small a turbo gives power where its useless and not enough where its needed, simple.
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EFR did ok today at Eastern Creek in Sports Sedans, put the boat anchors in their place
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On 4/1/2021 at 1:19 PM, Robo said:
I went from a 7163 to 8374 to 8474 to 9174 and I am glad I did, it's an incredible turbo with amazing spool.
My car is not a Skyline sorry, it's an EVO X with sleeved and built 2.16cc engine (plazmaman IC, direct port meth injection, S2 cams, sequential 6 speed etc)
8474 was twinscroll IWG and only 0.8 A/R rear
9174 was twinscroll EWG with 1.45 A/R rear
The 8474 came onto boost way too hard and made it undrivable (like between 3.5k to 4.5k was vertical on the dyno).
The 9174 we all thought being so much bigger rear housing would be lag city but surprisingly it was about the same as the 8474 (we only changed the turbo and nothing else). I see 1.5bar (22psi) by 4,300rpm. I am not done yet, I'm increasing the downpipe and going to S3 cams (Time attack car).
Rob
^ So many people just don't get this, it's a well known fact that too small a turbo while nice for a dyno sheet saying "look kuntz here is superior spool low down power" it is totally shit for applying power after apex to corner exit.
On 4/1/2021 at 1:19 PM, Robo said: -
On 4/18/2020 at 10:27 PM, Robo said:
Hey there,
I had exactly 2.0bar, it was completely flat all the way across the upper rpm range. This peak was at 8,500rpm where we stopped the run.
in other news, I have just finished my side cutout in downpipe:
Thanks Rob,
We are going to slap on one of these 8374 Full Race kits to a built 2.2 on EVOX, not going for internet records just increase the specific power while keeping some response, will let you know how it goes
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52 minutes ago, Robo said:
Hey there,
I had exactly 2.0bar, it was completely flat all the way across the upper rpm range. This peak was at 8,500rpm where we stopped the run.
in other news, I have just finished my side cutout in downpipe:
Thanks for that
oh be careful with those type of flex joints, customer of mine had one fail in his car a few weeks ago they collapse in on them selves to about 1/2 the normal diameter under sustained load at high heat.
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On 4/6/2020 at 6:40 PM, Robo said:
8374 , my setup is sleeved block 2.2ltr (4 cyl obviously) with direct port meth injection, sequential 6 speed, head work, oversized valves and makes over 600awhp on a mainline dyno peak power is 8500rpm and I get 2 bar of boost by 3,900rpm in 4th gear. Car weighs 1280kg after stripping it (with roll cage) and being built for Sepang F1 circuit.
what boost pressure? did you have at peak '600awhp' power
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On 7/2/2019 at 4:15 AM, Full-Race Geoff said:
8474 0.92 a/r just won pike's peak with a Honda K20
https://newatlas.com/2019-pikes-peak-results-robin-shute/60378/
With a Life Racing based ECU and correct set up that engine would have run properly LOL........
Regardless goes to show what a superior power train config can manage, we run a 2zz 1.8lt engine on EFR at same level of peak power but with far broader power range, similar vehicular constraints, and I can confirm it makes lesser packages look 'compromised' when you look at the performance potential.
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As I was saying a while back 'drifting' is pretty under utilized (stress wise) compared to what we do, but interesting to see it first hand here below...
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On 9/11/2017 at 8:30 AM, Dose Pipe Sutututu said:
I've found the LC range complete garbage and will either blow sensors or the controller will just die. Most of those cars that were originally fitted with LC-2 have now been replaced with AEM UEGO gauges.
The MTX-L (when they first came out) same deal, would first destroy sensors then give you an E9 error then eventually the gauge stops working even with new sensors. However I was able to get a new gauge through warranty and so far it's been ok (when the car was running).
The only reason I've stuck with innovate is because of serial out which integrates with my Adaptronic.
Good old Klaus,
I was them when it was first started, I personally got sick of all of the problems associated with supporting the use of those. They are A grade 24k gold plated turd.
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On the EFR's with multiple cars running F88 and S8 ECU's I have Turbo (speed) and Map (boost) targets, which has priority is totally a function of a variety of parameters. It's this superior control as to why I can run the things so consistently at a set turbine speed and not broken one yet....... Though I am sure Geoff A hole puckers quite a lot when he see's the numerous logs of many cars we send through
WARRANTY VOID ! haha
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Syvecs/Life Racing (same thing) has everything standard, MAP, PRP, Turbo, control are all there. If you need them or not is up to you or your 'tuna' to exploit. No need to guess or get someone to make it, all been done for you and it works too.
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21 minutes ago, Jds14 said:
Car has 270 with 11mm lift. Lots of headwork.. spoke to tuner today he said turbo was making 30 psi easy but would not hold it up top.. we are going to check the gates. Got a speed sencor on order
On all of the turbos I do run anti phase control to counter the effect of TIP increases relative to increasing rpm, this will be what is needed, but read Geoff's comments on lack of sophistication for some. If you can do that then will help with MAP not holding to the rev limiter.
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9 hours ago, Full-Race Geoff said:
in the motec, I couldn't find a direct way to do this. I have a well known pikes peak customer I work with who run two tables - they map both boost target and wastegate position feed forward based on altitude so we are able to closely control the turbo rpm. We also have a turbo rpm limit which opens the wastegate if we over spin the turbo. There are a couple of parameters to adjust with that limit but it is not intended to control turbo rpm. We tried last year without success, so contacted motec who told us this is designed as a safety limit and isn't sophisticated enough as a control. Although this appears to be easy to make work with the syvecs / life racing system... so im intrigued
and THIS is why you deal with a company that is not just using a soldering iron and outsourcing manufacture to make a box of electrics (of which there are many such types) but rather a company who actually makes engines that compete at the top levels of motorsports
you just cant beat that, and there is no one else who is more experienced with turbocharged engines than Life Racing !
Why indeed LOL
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5 hours ago, Jds14 said:
Interesting. I have plenty of responce. Have over 20 psi by 3k rpm. Makes 300kw by 3k and 500kw at 5k. Maxs out at 544ke at 25psi at 7600rpm. Changing to 1.45 rear should help with this. But was just wandering how much better the 9280 would be.
What cams do you have in it? Got any logs from the road in 1st 2nd gears etc?
I see what you mean though
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7 hours ago, Jds14 said:
Hey guys. Anyone have an opinion on an efr 9280 on a 3.2l. I currently have a 9180 with 1.05 rear housing but it falls over after about 5k rpm as the turbo is out of puff. Was consideribg putting 1.45 rear.
That is weird.
I posted up stacks of info (only one to do this???) with a 3.15lt same turbo combo as you currently have. Makes everything that turbo can deliver and to 8k rpm easy.
The issue I wrote about allot is the in line 6cyl is a total shitbox of an engine, they are typically un responsive, so any larger turbo combo and it would be a nugget for road point and squirt duties, but don't know your application so wont comment on suitability for you, other than to add it wont work great on much other than flat shift gearbox 'full noise' use and higher road speed 150kph + range.
Keep in mind this is with dual gate split 1-3 and 4-5 exhaust manifold set up as well.
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14 hours ago, Full-Race Geoff said:
wow, this evo is nuts. I was talking to an evoX 8474 customer here in the USA about this setup. he is close to buying motec, but I recommended he speak with you re syvecs.
Thanks mate, yep its the best by a looooooong way !
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I guess ~40psi boost is enough for most though
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Beware the IWG's from turbostupid are a fair nugget.
They piss out air cause with proper phase anti phase control with one chamber fully shut and the other fully open even on a 1 bar spring you cant run much more than 3600mB ~38psi (gauge pressure at sea level) with a high TIP values (EFR9174 0.92A/R IWG).
Then again not sure if you soft cocks :) run real boost like we can with water injection :P
FWIW, I have run the limits of those specific IWG branded items (various applications) and no way in hell they can run serious boost pressures on very low 0.5bar wg springs.
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China ftw
efr9180 choking?
in Forced Induction Performance
Posted
There is some pretty shit comments in here LOL mostly from kuntz who A) never built a similar set up or B) Never worked on one.
LOL as the hobby turbo maker commenting on EFR9180's over speeding and "exploding"
We run them regularly over the catalogue speed ratings but as the engineers at BW told me you need to know what you are doing, but there is a decent over speed margin on them.
The issue you will have is the 3.2lt engine, the map/tip ratio will be problematic and it will adversely effect the power on the 1.05AR, which we have run. If you go a 1.45 the response on the in line 6 cylinder will be garbage which is not the fault of the turbo its more a function of the firing order and packaging problems in the Datsun shitbox.
Feel free to email me if you want some real knowledge on this rather than forum guesses and paragraphs of BS from pretenders