phunky_monkey

Check this thread out too: http://nissansilvia.com.au/forums/index.ph...459&hl=full race&st=0 It's Ian's (Juggernaut1) thread for his Full Race kit.

The Powertune kit is not a good deal in my books, can be done for a lot less and with a proven kit to boot. I'd definitely choose the Full Race kit over the Powertune kit, and the bonus is it's cheaper. This is the kit with the 71R/76R. http://www.full-race.com/catalog/product_i...roducts_id=1748 The same kit can be had with the BW Airwerks S200SX in T4, or the S200 in T3, but these are untested. For a single scroll 3071R kit I think the cost would be the following: 6Boost mani - $1000 3071R - $1800 Tial 44mm gate - $600 Dave: It will be interesting to see, and would be good to get some kind of back to back comparison. In hind sight I should have gone for a solid head with the ability to rev a bit harder, but I can always do that down the track a bit if that's how I want to go, and depending on the power delivery I get. For reference, with the mild run in 14psi/220rwkw tune at 3200rpm I'm making 25rwkw's more with the new engine despite the 272 cams. Now sme of this surely can be attributed to the airtight seal with the manifold repairs, but despite this for it to have that sort of gain impressed me.

I actually just went back and read through my emails. He thought the big bore was a good idea, and also helped with the valve sizes and cam specs. The S14 had a Tomei 2.2 stroker in it, but Greg thought the big bore was quite good value and said go for it. Cost was the main reason for going one over the other at the time.

Funnily enough Greg, _omg, helped me out with specifying my engine in 2006 when I decided to build (yes, it's been that long since the car has been in my hands for longer than a few weeks). Full boost at 3500rpm would be absolutley crazy, I'd be so stoked if I could get near that. Also, just received some quote back from Full Race. For anyone interested the S200 is not much cheaper than the 3071R, certainly not enough to warrant it based on price like some other BW Turbos. So it's purely down to performance. But at the same time, if I could achieve anything near what Greg did I'd be over the moon, especially if it was with a single scroll housing as it would definitely be nice to spread the cost over time.

$3500US for the kit seemed quite pricey when I looked at it initially. But with the strength of the dollar, and after pricing up a kit made here it really isn't (even if you're slugged with taxes), and you know you're getting a proven product with good support.

There is satisfaction in modifying your own car... but also a hell of a lot of expense, time and heartache. Pre-built race car next time for me!

Hey Trent, I realised what you were asking, it was me who wasn't clear enough. Geoff was indicating that the 3071 TS setup could have the same response as the T518Z 8cm, but with T67 top end on the right setup. I sent him your chart, as well as few others from a few years back, as a comparison of what I thought was a good setup.

Thanks for that Ian, good to know. Geoff seems to think the that will be the case. Dave: I'm not mate, from what I'm hearing about the BW range it doesn't seem to be too much of an issue due to their design.

Lithium: In the same scenario Geoff Raicer puts the 76 in third position, stating he'd definitely choose the BW over it... I did read that thread earlier this morning, but it's not a true comparison to what I'm after. However it is food for thought, and the response is not fantastic. It is a fair midrange loss to the 76. Dave/Trent: On an old test done by yourself Trent, the T518Z 8cm made 150 by 3400rpm. Geoff thinks the 30R kit will have the same response with more top end on my engine. I'll ask for a chart

I don't unfortunately Dave, but I was pretty damn impressed to. Though US dyno's seem to show more power than ours from what I've seen. Ian: Cool cool, thanks. The S200SX T4 is the slightly smaller option also, but the T4 turns me off a bit... and it' unknown whether the .76 will work well in this application with the S256... hmmmm. All these numbers are hurting my brain

You're right Ian, I have indeed answered my own question but now it's determining exactly how much I want and what compromise I'm willing to suffer. The 3071R is leader of the pack so far, but I guess it's my curiosity about the BW, as well as the positive reviews that's pushing me to try it out. Where did you get the info that it's a 256 from? Is it the same part number? It does look to be the same. Lithium: I'm not going to go the 3076R TS I don't think, the 3071R and BW options seem to be shaping up as the turbo's of choice on the Full Race setup. The TS versions have not been compared form what I can see.

Thanks A. If I were to do it again I may have decided to go down that route. Honestly I'm being stubborn with the plenum for a few reasons, but mostly because of the headaches I went through to get the thing on the car (12 months after ordering!) and dammit I want to see it work! If I could do it over again I may have, but I want to see how it goes first. I understand that this is going to have an effect on the bits hanging from the other side of the engine but I'll take that into account. I've actually just been chatting to Geoff and now I'm in a quandry. I'm pretty sold on his kit but am tossing up the 3071R TS or the Airwerks S200 TS with a .85 housing, and maybe the .76 housing sent too so I can test both (Geoff says they're relatively inexpensive, and the money saved over the 71 may make it worthwhile). The T3 S200 is untested by Geoff as yet, but the BW guys promise good things and he's inclined to trust them. Someone has to try it I guess, and as I'm such a big fan of the Blitz stuff then maybe it should be me... Geoff is recommending the 3071 as the quickest spooling of the bunch, but would definitely choose the BW over the 3076. As I wasn't sure between the 71 and 76 the BW may be something nice in between. The S200SX was thrown into the mix too, but as it's a T4 I think it may limit my options if I don't care for it. Trent: Great power production from the 3071 int gate. In Twin scroll form Geoff has seen 150rwkw's by around 3300-3400rpm, so definitely could be the best option.

Yeah, it's certainly not the most responsive of things but has held up pretty well for me thus far. I've been hanging to get i tuned with the 2.2 as we were only able to do a run in tune before the manifold gave way, but with that it was doing 225rwkw's at 14psi and was making 20rwkw's more at 3900rpm than it was with the 2l, and 20rwkw's more at 3200 despite the big cams. I'd like to find out what it's limit is, but some niggling problems have kept me from it so far. I remember having Athid's 180 on the dyno and mine on the same day, and the curves were quite similar and power similar too. Interestingly I'm making 30rwkw's more at 3910rpm than the 312rwkw L2 dyno with the 264/172 combo, but Athid's S15 dyno creams it at the same RPM by around 30rwkw's!

Thanks for the advice Dave. I contemplated going the 264/272 setup and regret not doing it a bit now... But I may change to that if I'm not happy with it. Softening the torque hit with the TS is what I was thinking, as I think that part of the reason why I've always achieved quite good drive out of corners with little wheelspin is I'm using an old HKS T300 turbo which is not BB. The added lag induced could be a contributor... though I could be way off

*thrusts* Ashneel: There's an accomodation thread mate.

He's sold his GT-R now hasn't he?

Totally understand what you're saying, and I do agree with you. I'm not just looking for a total power figure, but I do know whereabouts I want it to be. Adam in his RB25 Skyline track car doing the rounds here in vic puts comfortably more than 300rwkw's to the ground and I see no reason why I shouldn't be able to have a turbo setup with a nice linear response put down somewhere in the high 200's, even if it is after aero work and more suspension tuning. I simply want the potential and do not want to change setups again. I'm not chasing a power figure as such, but rather using it to define the size of turbo whose potential I will find acceptable. I'm not going to be changing my inlet plenum anytime soon, so I'll see how it goes. My cars powerband with the stock capacity was acceptable before, but not perfect so I'm used to a car that operates in a high rpm powerband, but I also know I can get more power and better response with another setup. I do circuit sprints, not door to door racing, so the cut and thrust of traffic is not a concern. Also, I'm already speaking with Geoff, and he recommended the 3071R setup after taking a look at my specs and considering my use for the car. We're also discussing the BW options and he's keeping me updated on progress with the new range. Geoff also liked the look of my CPC plenum, so we'll see. I'm just obtaining some quotes at the moment from the sales department. Please don't see this as ignoring your advice, but I have a fair bit of experience with the car on road and track (have had it for 6 years) and different setups so am not throwing up pie in the sky options without taking into considerations the pro's and cons. I'm not someone saying I must have 300rwkw's because that will make me fast, so perhaps I'm not articulating well enough. I'm just considering all options to work with my existing engine setup and I guess this is why I have this thread in the first place! Troy: May do mate! Bu I can't have your skill outshining my engine power... Jugg: Thanks for that. Interesting reading and would be good to see a few more comparisons. BW is still a really big consideration, depending on when Geoff decides/is able to test out the smaller range of T3 divided. They're cheap too, which is an added bonus and the results thus far are pretty promising for the rest of the range. BoostedR: Do you have a dyno sheet by any chance? And is that a full V-Band system (ie Tial exhaust housing), or just for the dump pipe? SRS13: Yeah I have mate, and it's bloody impressive to say the least. I think I'd go the twin scroll version if I were changing manifolds as well though, just for the increased transient response. But it is an option if I were to just change my manifold now, and then move on to a 3071 down the track for cost purposes.

Any particular reason for the T67 over the L2 considering the power potential of the L2? Or is it a matter of a bigger gain without much tradeoff?

Wow, that really is the worst graph on an SR I can recall seeing for the GTK! Yikes...won't be entertaining that idea that's for sure. Thanks for all the graphs and info Trent. I really thought the L2 would have run out of puff by then. So you'd recommend it over an 8cm T67 then, considering the extra capacity?

Yeah I read the GT35 vs BW the other day and it's pretty promising. They're also a fair whack cheaper than the Garret stuff, and seem to work as well if not better in a lot of cases. This is the turbo that might be looking like a bit of a winner according to Full Race:

Thanks Dave. Full race are going to be testing out the Borgwarner twin scroll turbo's soon enough I think, which is another option right at the top of my list. Just not sure when the results will be available though, but may be worth the wait from what I'm told.

Tets: Thanks, will see how I go mate. Disco: Thanks for the tips. I'm not necessarily after 300rwkw's straight up, but to be honest with the money I've spent on this car I want to have a window to increase power to a level that makes the build worth my while. I was running 240rwkw's for years on the stock engine, and I don't believe a 20-30rwkw gain is not enough for me to bother changing setups. At the moment it's ramping up to power in the mid 3's, and so long as I have a 3500rpm band of power that's fine. I'd prefer a 4000rpm window ideally. I do know what you mean though, and on my current turbo setup with the stock bottom end I was caught between gears at Winton quite a lot. I'm going to be trying my T300 out initially to see how it goes (hasn't had a full tune yet due to a few issues), but if I'm unhappy with it I want to move quite quickly on a new setup to take advantage of the good state of our dollar. Throttle response with the CPC plenum and 80mm TB seems fine for the moment, and it's an S13 head. Throttle response is the main reason I'm thinking of going the Full race twin scroll setup. To help understand my thinking, the reason I'm contemplating this prior to tuning the current setup is because my HKS SS manifold can't take the heat of the track, and has cracked a few times. Therefore I need to purchase a new steam pipe manifold, and don't want to do this for a setup that I may want to change shortly. So best for me to work it out and only purchase what I really want, as I've spent money on turbo setups over the years! Thanks for the 2835 suggestion too. The Pro S is internally gates isn't it?

Yeah I considered the L2, but feel it may be a touch restrictive. If I'm going to go the high mounted Trust option then I think I'd go the 67.

That is the way I'm leaning at the moment, but it was just a thought that crossed my mind and I'm interested in finding out about all options prior to making a decision. At the moment the main contender is a Twin scroll 3071R/3076R kit, T67 8cm or a Tial housed 3071/6 on a steam pipe manifold. The car is a circuit car, so I'm looking for a wide power band and potential to make at least 300rwkw's (have to make it worth my while going from the HKS T300 on it now). Dane

Wow, 5800 is a bit rich! If you wouldn't mind posting some up Trent it would be greatly appreciated. It's would be on a SR22 with 90mm bore and 272/11.5 cams, 0.5/1mm oversized valves and CPC 1 piece plenum.