Upgrading Stagea Headlights & Fog Lights

[Sydneykid]

I have done a quick search and came up with some discussion about xenon headlights, S2's and compliance downgrades. But nothing that helped me out with what I should do in the non xenon arena.

It started when one of the low beam globes blew in our Stagea S1 a couple weeks ago and SOSK bought a replacement Narva bulb. Now it no longer has a cut off at the top of the low beam on that side. It splays light all over the place. I have checked that the globe is located firmly in the reflector, which it is.

So I figured I might use this opportunity to look at what alternatives out there in upgraded globes for low beam. high beam and fog lights. I have asked Kudos what he has for Stagea's, I will post that info up when it arrives.

In the interim, what have been your experiences?

cheers

[oxford1327]

i have upgraded my std globes with some autotechnia ones that are "not for road use" and they are awesome they are rated at 100w for low beam and are pretty much the same as a xenon with UV cut so they dont burn your lenses out as they are plastic.

i have also upgraded the high beam spots in the grill to 8500k globes i ordered from the U.S they were fairly cheap abd arrived in around a week.

i will chase up some part numbers etc. for you and post em as soon as i can SK.

cheers oxford

[Ska]

Anyone replaced the yellow fog lights on S1's? They are deemed illegal to even have installed in QLD as they shine a "reserved light" being yellow. All reserved coloured lights are red, blue, green and yellow.

Lucky I have not used them, but took a quick look at them the other day and it looks like they are just yellow bulbs, so you could gain an extra set of highbeams maybe?

[Sydneykid]

Anyone replaced the yellow fog lights on S1's? They are deemed illegal to even have installed in QLD as they shine a "reserved light" being yellow. All reserved coloured lights are red, blue, green and yellow.

Lucky I have not used them, but took a quick look at them the other day and it looks like they are just yellow bulbs, so you could gain an extra set of highbeams maybe?

OK, I'm confused, aren't the best fog lights supposed to be yellow? I have 5 cars and 3 of them have yellow fog lights (the Stagea being one of them). Personally I find that they are much better in the fog than the other 2 cars that have white fog lights.

cheers

[munchstagea]

Not yellow globes, they actually have yellow lenses built in.

[Sydneykid]

Does anyone know the Stagea S1 headlight globe configuration?

Low beam =

High Beam =

Fog Light =

What about Stagea S2?

Low beam =

High Beam =

Fog Light =

cheers

[AlexCim]

Having been the owner of both an S1 front and S2 front, I am glad to produce the following information.

S1

High/Low beams are H4 high/low bulbs 55/60W

Fog lights i THINK are H3C globes

S2

High beams are HB3 60W

Low beams are H1 55W

Parkers are D2R 35W

Fog lights are unknown at this stage

As far as upgrade globes, the Philips replacement globes are ment to be really really good. Might give them a try before I go ahead and slap some spot lights on my roof...

[GoldZilla]

OK, I'm confused, aren't the best fog lights supposed to be yellow? I have 5 cars and 3 of them have yellow fog lights (the Stagea being one of them). Personally I find that they are much better in the fog than the other 2 cars that have white fog lights.

cheers

That's what I thought too, because the yellow would be less likely to accentuate the fog. White lights only add to the reduction of forward vision in fog, especially if they're not pointed correctly. AFAIK, foggies should be pointed at least slightly downwards, so they shine "under" the layer of fog and give you a good vision of what's in front of you.

[AlexCim]

"First I'll give you the wrong explanation, which you can find here and

there. It goes something like this. As everyone knows, scattering (by

anything!) is always greater at the shortwavelength end of the visible

spectrum than at the longwavelength end. son of rajab Rayleigh showed this, didn't

he? Thus to obtain the greatest penentration of light through fog, you

should use the longest wavelength possible. Red is obviously unsuitable

because it is used for stop lights. So you compromise and use yellow

instead.

This explanation is flawed for more than one reason. Fog droplets are, on

average, smaller than cloud droplets, but they still are huge compared with

the wavelengths of visible light. Thus scattering of such light by fog is

essentially wavelength independent. Unfortunately, many people learn

(without caveats) Rayleigh's scattering law and then assume that it applies

to everything. They did not learn that this law is limited to scatterers

small compared with the wavelength and at wavelengths far from strong

absorption.

The second flaw is that in order to get yellow light in the first place you

need a filter. Note that yellow fog lights were in use when the only

available headlights were incandescent lamps. If you place a filter over a

white headlight, you get less transmitted light, and there goes your

increased penetration down the drain.

There are two possible explanations for yellow fog lights. One is that the

first designers of such lights were mislead because they did not understand

the limitations of Rayleigh's scattering law and did not know the size

distribution of fog droplets. The other explanation is that someone deemed

it desirable to make fog lights yellow as a way of signalling to other

drivers that visibility is poor and thus caution is in order.

Designers of headlights have known for a long time that there is no magic

color that gives great penetration. I have an article from the Journal of

Scientific Instruments published in October 1938 (Vol. XV, pp. 317-322).

The article is by J. H. Nelson and is entitled "Optics of headlights". The

penultimate section in this paper is on "fog lamps". Nelson notes that

"there is almost complete agreement among designers of fog lamps, and this

agreement is in most cases extended to the colour of the light to be used.

Although there are still many lamps on the road using yellow light, it

seems to be becoming recognized that there is no filter, which, when placed

in front of a lamp, will improve the penetration power of that lamp."

This was written 61 years ago. Its author uses a few words ("seem",

"becoming recognized") indicating that perhaps at one time lamp designers

thought that yellow lights had greater penetrating power. And it may be that

because of this the first fog lamps were yellow. Once the practice of making

such lamps yellow began it just continued because of custom."

---------------------------------------------------------------

My understanding is that it is important for fog lights to be one color

(rather than white, which is all colors) because the different

wavelengths(colors) of visible light scatter off the fog droplets

differently. This phenomenon is known as "dispersion," because the

different colors of light in an image will separate from each other,

causing the image to "disperse." If you illuminate the road with only one

wavelength (color) of light, the images of the objects you see will still

become somewhat blurry because of the scattering of light by the fog, but

at least you won't have extra problems from dispersion. So, if we want to

use just one wavelength of light, which wavelength should we use? It turns

out that light with short wavelengths scatters more than light with long

wavelengths (short to long: violet, indigo, blue, green, yellow, orange,

red). So, a long wavelength light will be best. There's another thing to

consider, too: our eyes are not equally sensitive to all colors. It turns

out that we are most sensitive to yellow and green light. So, our best

compromise between sensitivity for our eyes and a long wavelength for least

scattering is yellow light.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------

As far as we are concerened, its not the globes that are yellow but the lens. This lens can be cracked out to produce a white fog light, but as highlighted above that is not the best idea.

I use my fog lights all the time on cruises, as often I go places that get quite foggy in the valleys.

The fog lights are best mounted as low as possible to go under the fog as explained above. That is why driving in fog is best done on low beam with the fog lights on, not with the high beam on.

[Ska]

OK, I'm confused, aren't the best fog lights supposed to be yellow? I have 5 cars and 3 of them have yellow fog lights (the Stagea being one of them). Personally I find that they are much better in the fog than the other 2 cars that have white fog lights.

cheers

Yes me too, BUT here in qld they are illegal, the colour is reserved for emergency vehicles only, so technically I could be defected for just having them there. I must be able to prove that they do not light up. Which means the hassle of rigging up a isolation switch for them and how many times have I seen fog here in QLD, once, lasted a whopping 5mins, so doubt I'd actaully need them for their intended use. I planned to change them to a clear bulb to add another set of forward facing white lights to either low or high beam, but.......

Not yellow globes, they actually have yellow lenses built in.

Which means that I wouldnt be able to just replace the bulb, although when I took a quick look, (ie walking past them), I could've swron they were yellow bulbs, bummer.

[Ska]

Thank you Dr Cim! Interesting read actually.

As far as we are concerened, its not the globes that are yellow but the lens. This lens can be cracked out to produce a white fog light, but as highlighted above that is not the best idea.

Can they be put back in, or is it only a one way action, and how hard are they to get out?

[AlexCim]

One way action, as per the guys with LS400's that do it. You crack the glass out, its done, thats it.

[Ska]

Ah bummer, I aint doing that!

[GoldZilla]

This might actually be a good question for Dr Karl!

[Sydneykid]

Yes me too, BUT here in qld they are illegal, the colour is reserved for emergency vehicles only, so technically I could be defected for just having them there. I must be able to prove that they do not light up. Which means the hassle of rigging up a isolation switch for them and how many times have I seen fog here in QLD, once, lasted a whopping 5mins, so doubt I'd actaully need them for their intended use. I planned to change them to a clear bulb to add another set of forward facing white lights to either low or high beam, but.......

Which means that I wouldnt be able to just replace the bulb, although when I took a quick look, (ie walking past them), I could've swron they were yellow bulbs, bummer.

The Australian standard for emergency vehicles is flashing orange. That's tow trucks and breakdown vehicles etc, not police, fire or ambulance of course they are blue and red. Hence why 4 way (emergency) flashers on cars are blinker orange.

Falshing orange is not the same as permanently lit yellow as found in fog lights. Is this another example of Queensland breaking the Australian standards?

cheers

[AlexCim]

Vic breaks ADR's with 3km/h leanience on speed cameras, as opposed to 10%

Damn labour governments at a state level

[GoldZilla]

Damn governments in general!

[Ska]

Problem is that the QLD Police make rulings under one set of laws and QLD transport rule under a totally spereat set. Both sets of legislation are vastly different.

I found this out when researching legalities of underbody neons, Accoring to the legistlation QLD Police rule under, anything that is not provided on the car from the factory or as a factory extra is illegal, whereas the QLD Transport legistaltion states:

Underbody lighting is permitted, provided the lights are fitted in accordance with the conditions listed in this information sheet

AIS INFORMATION SHEET No. 21

Alternative lights

Additional lights fitted to motor vehicles and, in particular, alternative lighting on dressed up vehicles with underbody lighting, such as neon lights and ultra violet lights, are acceptable, subject to certain conditions.

(TO(RUM-VSS)) allows lights not mentioned in the standards to be fitted in addition to the required lights, whereas the former Traffic Regulation 1962 required specific approval, which was not often granted. Lights that flash or are white, red, yellow or blue are mentioned in the standards. However, pink lights, for example are not mentioned and could, theoretically, be fitted.

The use of blue lights are reserved for police vehicles in Queensland but ambulances and fire engines in other states may use blue lights.

As such, additional underbody lighting such as neon lights and ultra violet lights are acceptable provided the light omitted is not blue, yellow, red or white. Of the last two, red lights must not be seen from the front and white must not be seen from the rear. Other colours are acceptable as long as they do not flash or dazzle another driver.

Other additional lighting requirements are covered by the regulations and which is summarised in the brochure "All About Modifications to Motor Vehicles". This brochure may be sighted on the Queensland Transport website at www.transport.qld.gov.au/qt/driver.nsf/index/vehiclemods

Additional mandatory lights, e.g. an extra pair of direction indicator

lights, are also permitted. The Australian Design Rules set mandatory

position, width and height limits for a primary set of lights fitted to a

vehicle. In the case of light and heavy omnibuses (MD and ME categories),

all commercial vehicles (N category) and medium and heavy trailers (TD and TC categories), additional direction indicator, hazard warning, stop, parking and rear position lights may be fitted to satisfy specific operational requirements.

These operational requirements could include the need to better project manoeuvring intentions in congested traffic such as for buses frequently stopping to pick up and set down passengers, the need to have additional lights to retain signalling capability in case of primary light breakages, and where operating environment results in low mounted lights becoming covered in dirt or dust.

The maximum height limits for particular lights, which includes stop lights, fitted to the above categories of vehicles do not apply when provided as additional lights.

BIG problem is that the QLD police do not govern by the same set of legistlation that QLD Transport does, fcuked up eh.

(TO(RUM-VSS)) id the QLD traffic Act basically.

[Sydneykid]

Time for someone to take them both to court and then let them fight it out.

cheers

PS; if you are Victoria and you want to fight a speed camera charge, request a copy under FOI (Freedom of Information) of the report into speed cameras commissioned by the Victorian Government in 2004. Quote sections 7 and 9 and you should get off every time.

[oxford1327]

here are the details of the bulbs i used to upgrade my headlights SK.

for low beam.

AUTOTECHNIA super white H1 12V 100W, opti blue/silver MAX,UV cut.

platinum coated, super xenon gas filled. (got em at K mart for around $30)

for high beams (in grille)

EURO DEZIGNS (sic) HB3 8500K H.I.D xenon krypton.

(got em off ebay in the U.S) took around a week or so to arrive and were around $40 delilvered from memory.

i upgraded both sets of lights for less than one set of phillips globes and they are more powerful than the phillips ones too, they throw a crytal blue/white light and apparently are just as good if not better, as full blown XENONS i have been told.