Gym And Supplement Discussion

[dane spec33]

ECA: I know a guy ,

The only supplements i use, are pro powder, creatine mono (there is enough research out there now to prove the positive results it achieves), EFA's Fish oil, evening primrose, and juice plus. I find a good bcaa mix is good during workout.

[avrahan]

cheers mate, will have a look into them:D

[drmafia]

hey av, thanks for commin down, great job mate, much appreciated. anyhow about the product i have tryed and sold lots of "hydroxycut hardcore" products in fact if u asked when u were here im sure i woulda had some around but i really dont recommend it. it works very well as in it will defently cut u up if u can bare actuly getting on it more than 2 weeks.

its extreemly harsh on the stomech and internals.

it will give u very very runny shit like water. sometimes even red colored.. what u eat will be outa u in 30 mints max.. ull need the toilets very very often.. NOT RECOMENDED UNLESS U GANA STAY HOME FOR A MONTH TRYINA CUT UP.

there are much better ways of doing it a lil slower and getting even better results without doing soo much damage to your internals.. give me ur email ill send you some good info about things i take and recomend to sell..

if u want hydroxy cut i can get it for u a lil cheaper than everywhere .. but seriosly i dont think ull stay on it more than a week or two max.. VERY HARSH PRODUCT.

[drmafia]

The whole supplement industry is a big scam. They put pics of big guys on the posters and

in return, pencil necks buy it up, thinking that they're going to get that size. Those guys don't even

touch those supps, they're on the gear and know how to train/eat.

The key staples you need are an excellent diet and proper training.

99% of people that hit the gym don't know how to train, 99.8% don't know how to eat.

The only supplement you need is protein powder, to make up for flaws in your diet.

Creatine works to an extent, but it is a waste of money, could get better gains if you spent

that money on proper food.

The other option is drugs, steroids and fat loss drugs work. Supplements don't. You're fat because of what you eat.

Change what you eat and the fat will go away. Simple.

haha im in the supplementation business, unfortunately the marketing part of the business for most big brands " i dont wana name any but we all know most of them" show results of ppl who are on real large amounts of "steroids" and most the stuff you do get off shops are things that could do harm to u long run even tho u think its all good for you. reason beeing they arnt tested enough nor are they all natural, "lots of chimicals" think about the amounts u need to intake if u actually wana grow and the stress u put on ur livers, kidneys..

the key is correct form work out, GREAT HEALTHY FOOD INTAKE, LOTS OF WATER and the master of it is SLEEP AND REST.

u grow when u sleep and recover not when u in the gym so u need to have all that balanced.

i dont agree with u with the "supplements dont work" and drugs do. there are things out there that work very well how ever not marketed of sold in shops mate. if ur aim is just to look big then ya sure go get ur self some steroids and they will work in 8 weeks max no mater how bad u work out, but if u wana be healthy, feeling good and very strong built then u do need supplements with ur food.

i havent met anyone yet who eats all the veggies and fruit and meat they should be in everyday .. i eat every 2-3 hours but im still on good vitamins, minerals, miga3 oil and other herbs that makes u very potents and give u the edge.. and take them through out the day plus the protein..

hope this helps a lil

Edited January 13, 2008 by drmafia

[dane spec33]

I think that most people are just uneducated when it comes to their body,(well some parts anway lol), ME being case in point.

I didn't do human bio in high school, so any education i had with nutrition was left up to my peers / parents. The problem with the time we live in, people expect to be served things on a platter. Everything they want, information, guides etc.The only problem is that this platter is usually served on TV and has a purpose of just making money. (Those stupid ab machines etc).

I was getting a bit big during the last couple years of high school, then just continued eating bad and not really exercising. It took me, like most people to look in the mirror and not be happy with what was staring back at me. That day (well not that day, but if it was a movie it would happen like that ) i went to the local Rec and signed up. I still didnt know anything about nutrition, all i wanted to do is feel better about myself. It started out like a pissing competition, me trying to lift as much weights as the next guy, lol worked pretty good to cause with a few weeks of cardio and lifting, i was feeling like a new man. I cleaned up my diet by kicking out fast food, drinking more water. I was smoking at the time too.

A couple of weeks later i was browsing the newsagents and decided that i was competent enough, with a few weeks training under my belt, to browse the sport section. Namely the Bodybuilding magazines, as soon as i got over the fear of looking at half naked men walking around on stage lol, i picked up one with some huge black dude on the cover. His name was Ronnie Coleman and the magazine was showcasing the Olympia weekend that he had just won his 7th in a row. It was mind blowing looking at these muscle bound giants that looked like cartoon super hero's. I was flicking through the magazine when i happened upon my first Supplement ad, (yep it was Muscletech).

"Jay Cutler takes this product 3 times a day, and now is a freak of nature, (which i learned in the bb world is actually a compliment).

I went straight down local health food shop to enquire about these products that would make me look like a super hero (hey, come on we have all thought that once)

At this point, i still didnt know anything about nutrition , or how much protein i should consume per meal. Luckily the health food store clerk pointed me in the direction of protein powders. Unluckily, it was Muscletech. My jaw dropped when i saw the price, but i gritted my teeth and bought it. Got home, poured some milk into a glass then a couple scoops of Nitrotech, and with a spoon (cause that was a mixing method on the side of the product), and with tastebuds poised, began to drank the most disgusting thing i had tasted in a while. That clerk lied, it wasn't like a vanilla thickshake. lol.

That was my first experience with the supplement world, and i hated it. It didnt stop my dedication in the gym, where i trained 5 days a week. With my dedication came education, with reading BB magazines and internet searches pretty much steering me into purchasing one of the best books that i have ever read. Encyclopedia Of BodyBuilding by Arnold Schwarzenegger. It was a great beginners guide into not only how to build muscle but keep it, and how to show it off.

2 and a half years later, and i know what bodybuilder's mean when they say nutrition is the most important. I haven't given up on supplements (plus over the years probably contributing to a couple of Jay Cutlers Plane Tickets ). Overall i took the long way round, but i learned a great deal and i am still learning.

I whole heartily agree with drmafia and what he says. and with that kind word wonder if he can do me a deal on protein powders?

Im always looking for a good deal, it just pisses me off that America gets it so damn cheap compared to us. Oh well cant win em all

[drmafia]

I would recommend a package not a deal on just protein, most my clients are serious athletes. "boxers, soccer/basketball/ and other sports." if your only after protein i can show you a few good ones but will need to know what ur eating habits/exercise is like and what’s ur goals are. However i stress protein alone will not give u a significant result. it will help with recovery time and rebuilding torn muscle tissue of course but to get start getting ur body at its potential you will need a stack of vitamins, minerals, acids and oils, proteins and even meal replacements as u will not be eating every 3 hours which is what you should be doing if you are a serious about getting fit and boosting ur metabolism high up.

I would consider starting a group buy for a sports pack program which is retailed for $283 if there is enough interest. This is actually the smallest pack I recommend getting on if your not too sure about the product and wana try a taste of it 1st and see if it works then go to higher programs..

If there are 10 interested ppl ill drop it down to $258, this is an all natural and herbal program for more details ask and I’m happy to help.

U can see the program on:

http://www.herbalhealthaustralia.com.au/inc/sdetail/240

That’s not my site by the way. Just showing you what we are talking about here. Its basically the cheapest site that offers these products.

creatine is a natural supplement and is found in its largest quantity in the meat on the cows ass, the high intake of it does result in “bloating of the muscles” with water which looks like growth to most ppls eyes, this is the kind of supplement that will give u fast results that disappear not too long after stoping. Its not too bad to take little of it provided you do drink lots and lots of water, having it with apple or black current or wild bury juice is the best as it will go to the muscle with least amount if ATP

energy” to transport it into the muscle “free ride in”. I would stick to having it the natural way in stakes every 2nd or 3rd day if im trying to get water retention in me.

Hope that helps

Edited January 14, 2008 by drmafia

[dane spec33]

protein is all im looking for, i get creatine and pretty much all my vitamins. minerals and 'small weight' supplements from America, not that i dont like supporting Australian stuff, just i can get it so much cheaper. even with the postage cost.

My work is pretty good, and for the last year and a half i do eat every 3 hours, I get my protein sources from all different places, eggs, egg whites, lean chicken breast, Whey isolate, lean cuts of steak, kangaroo steak, tuna. EFA's i get fish oil 1000mg 3 times a day, evening primrose 3 a day, I use glucosamine, milk thistle, calcium tabs, and with the diet im using atm limits fruit, vege intake, i have a order of juice plus that i take everyday. Other than that natural peanut butter, raw almonds, and a cheat meal once a week. So meal replacements have never been a problem.

As with creatine, and usage, i have found some products cause me to bloat and some dont, no matter how much i take. Alot of trial and error on my part.

I am looking to get bigger in the next year and if everything goes well compete late next year.

I like working out, and now want to take it to the next level.

Im only 22 so only chemical usage is limited to caffeine and ephedrine, plus other plant based fat burners, im not opposed to steroids, but i am young and still in my genetic prime, so there is no need for atleast 6 years. (thats my thought). Anyway with research on Sarms and the myostatin gene, steroids will become a thing of the past very soon.

I work out 4, 5 days a week, depending on cycle of program, and every 8- weeks i take a full week break.

[IOWNU]

haha im in the supplementation business, unfortunately the marketing part of the business for most big brands " i dont wana name any but we all know most of them" show results of ppl who are on real large amounts of "steroids" and most the stuff you do get off shops are things that could do harm to u long run even tho u think its all good for you. reason beeing they arnt tested enough nor are they all natural, "lots of chimicals" think about the amounts u need to intake if u actually wana grow and the stress u put on ur livers, kidneys..

the key is correct form work out, GREAT HEALTHY FOOD INTAKE, LOTS OF WATER and the master of it is SLEEP AND REST.

u grow when u sleep and recover not when u in the gym so u need to have all that balanced.

i dont agree with u with the "supplements dont work" and drugs do. there are things out there that work very well how ever not marketed of sold in shops mate. if ur aim is just to look big then ya sure go get ur self some steroids and they will work in 8 weeks max no mater how bad u work out, but if u wana be healthy, feeling good and very strong built then u do need supplements with ur food.

i havent met anyone yet who eats all the veggies and fruit and meat they should be in everyday .. i eat every 2-3 hours but im still on good vitamins, minerals, miga3 oil and other herbs that makes u very potents and give u the edge.. and take them through out the day plus the protein..

hope this helps a lil

You are in the supplementation business.

Thus, naturally, you will say supplements are necessary.

I am in the business of getting big and I say they aren't (too an extent.)

Good to see we agree on the basics, proper form, diet and rest.

I should clarify, if not all, most supplements don't work, I suppose the only supplements that 'work' are protein (when diet is lacking, which it almost always is) and creatine (too an extent, it will increase strength, put you won't put on 10kgs of muscle with the stuff.) In terms of multi-Vs, fish oil etc. I would also agree, most people have a diet lacking.

You mention steroids will get you big in 8 weeks max, no matter how bad you workout. This isn't the case. Even they won't work without proper diet and exercise. I know

clowns that have run 3 different steroids at a time, with little results that are lost on cessation of the cycle.

The main thing I hate to see, is guys that are just starting out, buying up big on useless products, guys that don't know the basic training and nutrition principles. They think various products are a fast track to getting big, which is ridiculous, as I mentioned earlier, even steroids aren't 100% effective.

Those very guys, that were they to eat/train/sleep properly, would achieve much better results. The message I am trying to get across is that you don't

need BSN Cell Mass, No Explode, Maxs Protein to get big.....you need to stick to the basics, take your protein and vitatmins etc when necessary and keep at it.

Edited January 15, 2008 by IOWNU

[IOWNU]

I think that most people are just uneducated when it comes to their body,(well some parts anway lol), ME being case in point.

I didn't do human bio in high school, so any education i had with nutrition was left up to my peers / parents. The problem with the time we live in, people expect to be served things on a platter. Everything they want, information, guides etc.The only problem is that this platter is usually served on TV and has a purpose of just making money. (Those stupid ab machines etc).

I was getting a bit big during the last couple years of high school, then just continued eating bad and not really exercising. It took me, like most people to look in the mirror and not be happy with what was staring back at me. That day (well not that day, but if it was a movie it would happen like that ) i went to the local Rec and signed up. I still didnt know anything about nutrition, all i wanted to do is feel better about myself. It started out like a pissing competition, me trying to lift as much weights as the next guy, lol worked pretty good to cause with a few weeks of cardio and lifting, i was feeling like a new man. I cleaned up my diet by kicking out fast food, drinking more water. I was smoking at the time too.

A couple of weeks later i was browsing the newsagents and decided that i was competent enough, with a few weeks training under my belt, to browse the sport section. Namely the Bodybuilding magazines, as soon as i got over the fear of looking at half naked men walking around on stage lol, i picked up one with some huge black dude on the cover. His name was Ronnie Coleman and the magazine was showcasing the Olympia weekend that he had just won his 7th in a row. It was mind blowing looking at these muscle bound giants that looked like cartoon super hero's. I was flicking through the magazine when i happened upon my first Supplement ad, (yep it was Muscletech).

"Jay Cutler takes this product 3 times a day, and now is a freak of nature, (which i learned in the bb world is actually a compliment).

I went straight down local health food shop to enquire about these products that would make me look like a super hero (hey, come on we have all thought that once)

At this point, i still didnt know anything about nutrition , or how much protein i should consume per meal. Luckily the health food store clerk pointed me in the direction of protein powders. Unluckily, it was Muscletech. My jaw dropped when i saw the price, but i gritted my teeth and bought it. Got home, poured some milk into a glass then a couple scoops of Nitrotech, and with a spoon (cause that was a mixing method on the side of the product), and with tastebuds poised, began to drank the most disgusting thing i had tasted in a while. That clerk lied, it wasn't like a vanilla thickshake. lol.

That was my first experience with the supplement world, and i hated it. It didnt stop my dedication in the gym, where i trained 5 days a week. With my dedication came education, with reading BB magazines and internet searches pretty much steering me into purchasing one of the best books that i have ever read. Encyclopedia Of BodyBuilding by Arnold Schwarzenegger. It was a great beginners guide into not only how to build muscle but keep it, and how to show it off.

2 and a half years later, and i know what bodybuilder's mean when they say nutrition is the most important. I haven't given up on supplements (plus over the years probably contributing to a couple of Jay Cutlers Plane Tickets ). Overall i took the long way round, but i learned a great deal and i am still learning.

I whole heartily agree with drmafia and what he says. and with that kind word wonder if he can do me a deal on protein powders?

Im always looking for a good deal, it just pisses me off that America gets it so damn cheap compared to us. Oh well cant win em all

lol nice story.

A lot of guys fall into this trap, those magazines are all hype. "Build 1" on your arms in just 3 workouts".......

[Devils_Advocate21]

Hmmm interesting, oh the creatine thing it can fk up your kidneys as it raises your creatinine levels on your blood stream, hence the guide make sure you drink heaps of water with it and go with say 4 weeks on 4 weeks off type scenario. Much better and recommended products are definetly Citrulline Complex or Citrulline products before workout combined with arganine will and should give you positive results along the line, But the usual things is and a big thing of that is Diet, if you eat sweet f/a thats what you will get, eat big to get big scenario.

Protein powders are good, but have a relative short half life, eggs on another hand are generally a good source of protein and great pre and post workouts please take note of this site http://www.bodybuilding.com/fun/eggs.htm good read on the thing Generally a good site overall..

I have to admit there are alot of "gymic" type products out there for sale as well on the market, but be sure to check out www.adastreet.com.au for a general overview and good range of good products,

Some good read on Arganine products found here also http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=537221 along with alot of other usefull information..

Anyway for the eggs diet if your willing and dont like the taste of raw egg i go the mix two in glass whisk with fork add orange juice, good mix and all its like is a think orange juice type thing.

On another agenda if your looking for some muscle diets try here http://www.discussbodybuilding.com/m_158705/mpage_1/tm.htm they have an array of things people in real life are generally doing and what they are gaining

Awell hope this all helps some one out there

Plus what im using at the moment is citrulline with a 50/50 carb protein mix with arganine in the mix plus eggs in general, and all i can say is excellent all round

Cheers

A

[dan_the_man]

dr mafia wats ur business?

[EVL-R33]

hmmm too much to be read in this thread..

btw, hydroxycuts arent as good as Scorch Thermo Caps..

Edited January 17, 2008 by EVL-R33

[drmafia]

dr mafia wats ur business?

My business is in health fitness and wealth couching "herbal life" and I also train a few ppl boxing.

You are in the supplementation business.

Thus, naturally, you will say supplements are necessary.

I am in the business of getting big and I say they aren't (too an extent.)

Good to see we agree on the basics, proper form, diet and rest.

Just cuz im in that business don’t mean i sell things to ppl that they don’t need mate, everyone’s diet is different, personally i eat a shit loads of meat in my day but no vegies or fruit at all which means i stack on my vitamins a lil higher than others.. the reason behind supplementation is to insure that ur body has no deficiencies to insure it works in its optimum potential as you already should know since your in the big boys business, i have also trained a few ppl on stacks of test.. that didn’t get much cuz they didn’t do anything the right way not even the most basic DRINK LOTS OF WATER and rest enough and avoid alcohol.

I always make programs for my clients customised to their needs and never actually sell one or two things cuz if they serious about their goals they need to cover all aspects.

Natural source of food is the best, avoiding chemicals as much as possible is my method of life. Its “health and FITNESS” not size. I assure you that iv had my fair share of sending a big heavy weight HGH + steroids bulked guys flying away from a single blow im not a very big boy at all i bench a good 140kgs in nice form without having huge chest that will slow me down n so forth.. Power n endurance isn’t the same as size and tone..

[dan_the_man]

can u pm me ur business details? i may as well buy supplements from you then.

[IOWNU]

My business is in health fitness and wealth couching "herbal life" and I also train a few ppl boxing.

Just cuz im in that business don’t mean i sell things to ppl that they don’t need mate, everyone’s diet is different, personally i eat a shit loads of meat in my day but no vegies or fruit at all which means i stack on my vitamins a lil higher than others.. the reason behind supplementation is to insure that ur body has no deficiencies to insure it works in its optimum potential as you already should know since your in the big boys business, i have also trained a few ppl on stacks of test.. that didn’t get much cuz they didn’t do anything the right way not even the most basic DRINK LOTS OF WATER and rest enough and avoid alcohol.

I always make programs for my clients customised to their needs and never actually sell one or two things cuz if they serious about their goals they need to cover all aspects.

Natural source of food is the best, avoiding chemicals as much as possible is my method of life. Its “health and FITNESS” not size. I assure you that iv had my fair share of sending a big heavy weight HGH + steroids bulked guys flying away from a single blow im not a very big boy at all i bench a good 140kgs in nice form without having huge chest that will slow me down n so forth.. Power n endurance isn’t the same as size and tone..

I'm not against supplementation in terms of diet (i.e minerals, vitamins etc.)

I'm more against gimmicks and scam. (i.e NO products, Mass builders etc.)

lol. And I didn't say anything about big guys being better fighters...dunno where that came from,

good to see you can send "big heavy weight HGH + steroids" guys flying.

I understand what you mean by "health and fitness" it is true that most guys train for general fitness, but the guys I'm talking about,

(the ones that read the magazines and buy the products) want to get big and for them, there are better avenues then buying up big

on the supps and getting a personal trainer (who probably weighs 80 odd kgs.)

As I already mentioned agree with you on diet, rest, training....hang on, what ARE your training principles (relative to mass building)?

[gtrzilla]

i was on the no explode and cellmass stack

also had the hydroxy cut too, but could never be fkd using it so its sitting here collecting dust

i hear that a product called horsepower is even more potent than no- explode, with great results

[Husky33]

I am also in the supplementation/vitamin industry, and some of the stuff in here is really funny

First of all, for the people that are complaining about the creatine in No-Explode, BSN last month had a lawsuit compiled against them because 3 of their products, No-Explode included, didn't contain what it was meant to. It was meant to have a patented creatine ethyl ester malate, but it had zero traces of this. Infact there was no patent at all, this was just made up. There were minimal traces of monohydrate found in it, but very minimal. Basically it is full of caffeine and who know's what else.

Also someone said homeopathic hgh is illegal in australia, it's not, and that's because it's shit and doesn't work.

Creatine monohydrate is completely fine if you have realistic expectations. No, it's won't make your muscles bigger. yes, it will give you longer endurance etc, so indirectly can help. I mean, it's scientifically proven to work, not like half the shit out there.

Protein powders are great, and much better than eggs pre/post workout. But they are only a supplement, and most of your protein intake should be coming in through your daily diet.

In the end, as said, you eat alot. ALOT! If your not doing that, day in, day out, forget the supps. The only ones you need anyway are protein, multi's and fish oil anyway. Stop wasting money and spend it on some food. Most guys coming in to buy supps are skinny. WTF. Go eat!

If you want to spend $1000's on supps, just do a cycle of aas. At least that will work.

and drmafia do you really think bodybuilders care about power and speed. Their sport is being on a stage. Don't bring up those stupid arguments, heard too many of them..... horses for courses mate. Don't make me bring up olympic lifters, ha ha, they have more power and explosiveness than alot of people on the planet, and alot of them aren't small

Out of curiosity, all you guys raving on about supps, what do you weigh, how much do you squat, how much do you deadlift and post a pic. Let's see if these supps are really worth it.

Edited January 23, 2008 by 180_mph

[Husky33]

oh, and in terms of fat burners, they are just thermogenics as someone already pointed out. They will not target fat, they will just increase your metabolism so you will burn calores quicker basically. It's all going to come down to diet and exercise in the end anyway.

If you want something that will burn fat, get on the clenbuterol

[dan_the_man]

please do not advise members to do AAS or suggest clen on these forums.

the ECA talk was bad enough earlier.

if you want to talk about that then there are other forums to cater for it.

[Husky33]

lol, you can't take sarcasm with the aas can you? There are no rules about talking about aas, selling or posting sources is a different matter altogether. There is also nothing illegal about suggesting aas for futuer reference.

Clen is not illegal anyway...so there.

Edited January 23, 2008 by 180_mph