Turboing My Na With Parts Lying Around

[Hawker180]

Hey guys, i used to have a R32 GTST but now own a 180sx and a na R32 GTS RB20DE auto as a daily.

anyway i have RB20DET turbo parts floating around from my old half cut and was going to try out the turbo on the NA motor, good idea?

parts i have sitting around:

turbo/exhaust:

R32 GTST turbo (early model silver top turbo, genuine 50,000kms, no shaft play)

R33 wastegate Actuator (thought this would be good for the NA only 5psi?)

Stock Turbo manifold

Stock turbo dump pipe

Stock turbo front pipe

Electonic:

R32 GTST auto ECU (for now)

R32 GTST manual ECU (for later when i convert it to manual)

GReddy electronic boost controller (not sure if ill need that)

Fuel/intake:

RB20DET injectors

Nippo Denso fuel pump out of my 180sx

Stock turbo intake elbow with R32 BOV (late model RB20)

other:

Stock S14 LSD (to get rid of the single wheel spinner)

Timing Belt

Water pump

RB20DET loom (not sure if this is needed)

SR brakes (might run them as they are alot bigger than stock NA R32)

NGK sparkplugs off the RB20DET

Part's id need to buy:

Genuine Nissan gaskets (manifold, turbo)

Intercooler kit

This is a job i can tackle on my own, im just wanting to make sure there is nothing i have missed out on for the conversion?

Yes i have read through the "turboing your NA guide", but am still wondering if my exact situation would be fine?

Edit: also i have a blown RB20DET as well, if i need engine parts!

Edited April 4, 2008 by Hawker180

[GTS4WD]

Compression Ratio?

You can either leave it as a higher C.R and get the car retuned to accomodate (there are one or two people here on the forum that have done this). This would mean an aftermarket ECU set up of some sorts. SAFC?

You could aslo swap pistons over for turbo rb20 items. You could try finding/machining a thicker head gasket?

You will also need a new head gasket to put the engine back together again.

Tap oil and coolent lines from block to turbo.

I know RB25DE valve springs are softer than the 25DET items. Not sure about 20's

Whats "blown" on RB20DET? Because you could quite easily build that engine and then do the whole conversion in one go and drop the new engine in one day. OR. instead of using DET parts to turbo your NA.. why dont you use NA parts to fix your turbo, this way there is far less parts that need to be moved.

[dori34]

if you add a thick headgasket then that will just lower the compression.. no point in doing a de+t if theres no high compression & torque to be experienced from it.

leave the bottom end and gasket standard, IF it does blow in future, then replace it with stronger DET items.

[Hawker180]

yeah im curious as to what the higher compression will be like, is it safe to leave the compression as is and run the stock ECU with about 5psi of boost???

my old RB20DET has a melted piston (piston 1)

Edited April 4, 2008 by Hawker180

[dori34]

^lol, the piston has seen better days!

max psi you would probably run is 7/8 or higher if ur gusty.

[Hawker180]

anything i have missed?

[SKiT_R31]

Compression Ratio?

You can either leave it as a higher C.R and get the car retuned to accomodate (there are one or two people here on the forum that have done this). This would mean an aftermarket ECU set up of some sorts. SAFC?

you don't need to have a special tune, the stock rb20det ecu will be fine, at worst you may need to lower the static/base ignition timing, but on that low boost, i really doubt it. A safc wouldn't do sfa, the only differences in tuning would be ignition, compression wont change fueling, so a safc will do the same as it would on a DET, likewise aftermarket management or retune.

You could aslo swap pistons over for turbo rb20 items. You could try finding/machining a thicker head gasket?

don't do this, why bother building up a 20de+t if you lower the compression? you may aswell just rebuild your blown 20det if thats the case. As for thicker head gasket, noooo it will do more harm than good, you'll lose power and it wont lower the chances of pre-detonation, they should really only be used if you shave too much off the head/block as a spacer, but n/a and turbo pistons run a different shape and squash, a thicker head gasket will ruin that squash.

Tap oil and coolant lines from block to turbo.

shouldn't it already have them, the same as the turbo engine? I know the S1 RB25DE does, as does the RB30e (r31 spec), i would have thought they all did.

I know RB25DE valve springs are softer than the 25DET items. Not sure about 20's

i wouldnt worry about this, you'r not pushing big numbers, if you run more boost than the det injectors can handle, you'll need to upgrade a few other things, i'd add these to the list then - if they are different.

max psi you would probably run is 7/8 or higher if ur gusty.

I can see the engine coping easily with enough boost to max the injectors (done on a dyno with ign timing adjustment) The difference is, the 20de will make the same power as a 20det with nearly double the boost, so I'd be more concerned about the amount of boost more to make sure its getting enough fuel. on top of that, make sure its getting good fuel, and cold air.

R32 GTST turbo (early model silver top turbo, genuine 50,000kms, no shaft play)

R33 wastegate Actuator (thought this would be good for the NA only 5psi?)

this is a really good idea, not because of the less boost protecting the n/a engine, but because the turbo is otherwise too small, it will max and generate too much heat etc. the 5-7psi actuator on the 20det turbo should be ideal, when time to upgrade maybe a whole 25det turbo would be a good choice (as spool wont be as much of an issue).

anything i have missed?

nope, your inter cooling it, just make sure its a decent cooler, like a fmic and you run it on decent petrol, you'll find that turbo will be a bit small though.

people seem to forget, compression is your friend, and you don't need boost to make power, compression makes power, so you'll make the same power off less boost, obliviously because of this the boost limit is lower than that of a low comp motor.

for example, an rb20det with 15psi has the same static compression as an RB20DE+T at almost 10psi, An rb20det @ 12psi has the same static compression as an RB20de+t at ~ 7psi etc

So technically with the 7psi actuator the 20de+t will run a bit higher than a factory rb20det static compression ratio, and will probably make more power.

Also dont forget this is about the boost that actually makes it to the engine, the actuator gets its reading from the turbo outlet, between there you'd got a lot of restrictions that can cause a pressure drop, so you may see 7psi at the turbo, but only get about 5psi in the cylinders etc.

With the higher compression, (but similar with normal motors) flow is going to be what you'll want for power, the more flow you can get at the certain pressure the better, so cold air, bigger turbo etc.

go for it, good luck

Edited April 24, 2008 by SKiT_R31

[Hawker180]

^^^its been a while since i have checked this thread!

Thanks heaps for your reply SKiT_R31...im just chasing up the last few parts and will get started in the next week or two!...ill let you all know how it go's!

(just brought all new nissan genuine gaskets (head\manifold, manifold\turbo, turbo\dump)

lining up turbo injectors and just need a manifold, also thinking of just running a stock side mount for now!

Edited May 6, 2008 by Hawker180

[Hawker180]

just an update, In the end i found a smashed 4 door turbo auto skyline ($1400) and swapped the engine accross, as well as brakes/5 stud/brake booster, interior, diff and purchased a manual gearbox kit ($1200).

Should be alittle more reliable than the NA motor, as i heard after a while the head gasket will go even at low boost.

[N-DAWG]

Good to hear, looks like things worked out in your favour in the end particularly with costs being you've been able to upgarde brakes and all...well done!

[Hawker180]

^^^ Yeah car has turned out good...its pretty much a GTST now (but no HICAS, and still the non-turbo steering wheel and front bar)

1992 velor seats and trims too, plus all the tinted glass (except back window)...lots of other extras too that ive converted accross.

[N-DAWG]

Nice nice! Yeah I actually like the idea of driving what still looks like an ordinary non-turbo skyline (at least to those that can tell the difference), and knowing that you've got some nice power hidden away

[Tezzah]

as i heard after a while the head gasket will go even at low boost.

Fools.

[666DAN]

Fools.

+1

50,000kms at 7psi+ didn't see any damage on my car

[skyla]

We're running 9psi on our RB20DE+T using RB20DET actulator on a RB25DET turbo, stock RB20DET ecu and injectors, FMIC, walbro fuel pump and sard FPR, low mount exhaust manifold, custom 3" dump pipe and full 3" exhaust. Engine was dyno tuned to 175rwkw, timing was retarded to 8 degrees and fuel pressure was set to 40psi.

She survived a track day and 25,000km so far with out any problems.

NA engines can handle more boost than what most people think it all comes down to the tune.

Edited December 15, 2008 by skyla

[Tezzah]

We're running 9psi on our RB20DE+T using RB20DET actulator on a RB25DET turbo, stock RB20DET ecu and injectors, FMIC, walbro fuel pump and sard FPR, low mount exhaust manifold, custom 3" dump pipe and full 3" exhaust. Engine was dyno tuned to 175rwkw, timing was retarded to 8 degrees and fuel pressure was set to 40psi.

She survived a track day and 25,000km so far with out any problems.

NA engines can handle more boost than what most people think it all comes down to the tune.

Interesting. I have all the mods you have except the FPR. And possibly some differences in the FMIC and exhaust.

Running 10psi im only making 170rwkw.

I wonder where the difference is at. >.>

When you say low mount exhaust manifold, is that a custom, or the standard?

[skylinekid]

probably in the tune.... possibly just a better motor.

[skyla]

Interesting. I have all the mods you have except the FPR. And possibly some differences in the FMIC and exhaust.

Running 10psi im only making 170rwkw.

I wonder where the difference is at. >.>

When you say low mount exhaust manifold, is that a custom, or the standard?

It's a custom one the same as this one http://www.trademe.co.nz/Trade-Me-Motors/C...n-193405843.htm

The FMIC we have is 450x300x75, do you have much lag? we have quite a bit

here's a dyno print out of our RB20DE+T, not the best looking graph, was dynoed using 95 ron fuel have since started running E10 bio fuel and the car runs heaps smoother and is more responsive. Current results are in the blue, red results was with the old RB20DET before it died.

Edited December 16, 2008 by skyla

[Tezzah]

Define Lag?

I get 10psi at 3,200ish, with positive pressure starting around 2,500.

Running a 600x300x75 ebay cooler.

Nistune

3"bell mouth dump front, 3" trust full exhaust (very quiet)

[Tezzah]

I think its in the exhaust and manifold