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StageaTypeS

Car Modifications What Are The Rules

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What are the rules regarding modifying a car and how far can you take it whilst keeping it legal? The reason I ask is I know of the usual headaches e.g. only 1 intake modification, the cutting of the chassis for installing front mount intercoolers, tyres supposedly only allowed to be 1 inch wider than standard and so on.

My question is this, if we are unable to do these modifications to our cars how do people build hot rods or older V8's and legally drive them on the road. In alot of cases they fit different engines e.g. Chevy V8's in some cases blown, they often modify the chassis, fit hugely wide rear tyres, so many mods that the car is barely recognisable from the standard car? How do these cars comply with the ADR and emissions laws and how can they be driven on the road legally am I missing something.

I would like to know this because I want to know how far I can modify my car whilst still keeping it road legal, at the moment from everything I have read and the people I have asked it appears I can do bugger all so how do the hot rodders get away with it?

Any help or info would be really appreciated

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My question is this, if we are unable to do these modifications to our cars how do people build hot rods or older V8's and legally drive them on the road. In alot of cases they fit different engines e.g. Chevy V8's in some cases blown, they often modify the chassis, fit hugely wide rear tyres, so many mods that the car is barely recognisable from the standard car? How do these cars comply with the ADR and emissions laws and how can they be driven on the road legally am I missing something.

Alot of those cars are really old, and were made before whatever ADR you wanna look at so they are not required to follow it i believe, also everything is probably engineered and signed off legally.

try reading some of the modification guidelines / roadworthy book to see how far you can take stuff whilst being legal.

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You can get most things signed off body wise if you do it correctly.

Most of the old t-model fords/hot rods etc you see are pre emissions, and use motors that come under though pre-emissions laws so you have no issues anywhere.

As much as the EPA denied it to me over the phone - cops target people specifically.

They see a nice blown hot rod they leave it alone. Same can not be said for an Import owner however.

Fact is they are both enthusiasts, love their cars the same, but are treated differently.

That's just Victorian cops for you though. I know im generalising some are not "run of the mill" but for the sake of the point i think im dead right being generalist there.

As for the rest - read the VicRoads VSI's, and the EPA information. Its all in the sticky thread in this very section.

If you have doubts and its not covered, then ring VicRoads and talk to one of their engineers specifically, they are there during business hours.

Also consult a VASS engineer yourself before undertaking motor transplants and body modifications

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Thanks for the info guys, I must admit i have tried reading all the various legislation around what is allowed and what isn't and I am still confused. I think there is certainly a bit of a bias towards harrassing us import owners as opposed to some of the muscle car owners.

I mean really what is the likelihood of an old charger with a blown LS2 with 1000hp actually meeting emissions, now the engine is pretty recent and came out well after ADR's were established shouldn't it therefore comply and some of the examples I have seen have had alot more than the 1 intake mod that is supposedly allowed.

How is this for an idea, would I be able to get an old Torana rip the body off and transplant it onto a R32 GTR Chassis? Would that then mean I could modify the car as much as I want because the shell predates alot of the new legislation? That would certainly be an interesting project and I am sure would give a few of the V8 boys the shits at full noise.

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Thanks for the info guys, I must admit i have tried reading all the various legislation around what is allowed and what isn't and I am still confused. I think there is certainly a bit of a bias towards harrassing us import owners as opposed to some of the muscle car owners.

I mean really what is the likelihood of an old charger with a blown LS2 with 1000hp actually meeting emissions, now the engine is pretty recent and came out well after ADR's were established shouldn't it therefore comply and some of the examples I have seen have had alot more than the 1 intake mod that is supposedly allowed.

How is this for an idea, would I be able to get an old Torana rip the body off and transplant it onto a R32 GTR Chassis? Would that then mean I could modify the car as much as I want because the shell predates alot of the new legislation? That would certainly be an interesting project and I am sure would give a few of the V8 boys the shits at full noise.

Hmm dude I knew did similar to that

VL calais stock body.

gibson Motorsport GTR under that, full AWD 2.6 twin turbo full works.

Peter hill ex gibson motor sport mechanic moved to small country town...got bored,,,

also had a honda city that would spank most V8's in town.

he also built a couple more with rb30/26 from memory.

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As said it depends on the vehicles age and what A.D.R if any the car in question falls under.

My other cars 34 and 62 Fords are both pre A.D.R so no seat belts, demister, washer ect ect.

Although I do have most modern safety gear on my cars, I don't have to have it.

Emmissions? lol

Big cubes, small vintage brakes...nps

Engineers cert for some chassis work ect but that about it.

So anything pre Jan 69 it's open season (within reason)

There is also "street rod" conditional registration if you're a car club member.

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Thanks for the info guys, I must admit i have tried reading all the various legislation around what is allowed and what isn't and I am still confused. I think there is certainly a bit of a bias towards harrassing us import owners as opposed to some of the muscle car owners.

I mean really what is the likelihood of an old charger with a blown LS2 with 1000hp actually meeting emissions, now the engine is pretty recent and came out well after ADR's were established shouldn't it therefore comply and some of the examples I have seen have had alot more than the 1 intake mod that is supposedly allowed.

How is this for an idea, would I be able to get an old Torana rip the body off and transplant it onto a R32 GTR Chassis? Would that then mean I could modify the car as much as I want because the shell predates alot of the new legislation? That would certainly be an interesting project and I am sure would give a few of the V8 boys the shits at full noise.

The Torana would still be bound be emissions of the newer motor, the VicRoads documentation is very clear on that area with regards to motor swaps.

Its VSI.21 or VSI.8 from memory.

You really just need to spend the time and read it, and re-read if it doesn't make sense the first time as its all there for a major part as i've looked @ the doco's countless times over the years

And then, you've still have to have an engineer approve of the whole under body work... which I don't think you'll find easy as they are totally different floor pans, your making it considerably heavier etc.

I mean you can do ANYTHING you want, its not until you get caught that you worry... but when you do (as many find out) the mods they did cannot be engineered and the car is off the road for ages getting it to meet the engineers requirements.

Always talk to a VASS engineer first. Golden rule

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dont modifi.... easy

lol if only it worked that way.

If they cant find any illegal modifications, they will either get you for seat belt, hand brake, tyres, water in washer bottle, bent plates, rear centre brake light etc etc

If they want to defect you, they will find something. All they need to do is assume its illegal and you'll have a nice yellow sticker on the window :down:

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I have a mate who is rebuilding a Mercury. Basically he is replacing the chassis with one he has built and designed himself, cutiing the body off of the old car and putting it all together with modern engine, brakes etc etc. The chassis has to be sighted and signed off by an engineer to ensure it meets ADR's and is sound. As the motor is a modern engine out of a production car as long as the motor isn't modifed it meets all the required EPA and emissions regs. The only thing I am unsure about is the exhaust....obviously as the two cars are different he will have to use a different exhaust and I imagine he would have to get the noise tested etc. If the owner was to modify the engine after all this it would be illegal, however as Ash said the chance of him being picked up for it compared to a skyline is pretty slim.

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Hmmm so it sounds to me as long as I don't modify anything that looks remotely like a skyline I should be able to fly under the radar and do what I like?

At the moment I have a little bit of extra cash and I am seriously considering taking on my first big project. I currently own a Nissan Stagea (Manual Type S) and I am considering buying a RB26 totally rebuilding it (Properly) and dropping it in, also redoing all of the suspension components and probably tidy up the body and some of the interior at the same time. I already have done a reasonable amount of work to the car but to get it where I want I estimate it is probably going to be in the region of another $30,000. The big thing I am fearful of is that I will spend all my money on my pride and joy and I will be left with a car that I can't take on the road which would be an absolute waste.

The alternative is something that has tempted me for a long time, buy an old 240z and transplant a newer engine and drivetrain into it. I think they have some of the nicest lines of any car ever made and I would love to have a classic car like this but with all the advantages of a modern car. Would I be better off spending my hard earned on this?

I have attached a pic of what I mean, I hate to think how much this example cost all up but you certainly get the idea of what I am after.

Does anyone know of someone who has attempted a project like this?

post-39581-1235600452_thumb.jpg

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^^That is one of my plans, a 240Z or a 260Z with RB26DETT.

My dad had a 260Z and 280ZX, they were fun cars!

Finding a 240Z/260Z will be quite rare, but there are some still around, depending on the condition of the car, will depend on the price ppl sell it for.

Getting a RB26 engine will vary from $5000 to +$10,000 (Approx) depending on whats done on it.

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That would be fun, I've seen a few 240-60's with toyota v8's locally...never seen one with an RB26. Seems the natural thing to do.

Also 3 mint stockers (black, met brown and red) within a couple of blocks from me, all very nice cars

Agreed that the early z's were sexy mofo's...very sexy.

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At the moment I have a little bit of extra cash and I am seriously considering taking on my first big project. I currently own a Nissan Stagea (Manual Type S) and I am considering buying a RB26 totally rebuilding it (Properly) and dropping it in, also redoing all of the suspension components and probably tidy up the body and some of the interior at the same time. I already have done a reasonable amount of work to the car but to get it where I want I estimate it is probably going to be in the region of another $30,000. The big thing I am fearful of is that I will spend all my money on my pride and joy and I will be left with a car that I can't take on the road which would be an absolute waste.

Well you can put a RB26 in legally, you can rebuild it properly… you just cant make more than 250-270rwkw legally.

Which is the limit of the stock ECU mainly.

Now you can put a PFC/injectors into the car, and get closer to 330-340rwkw on low mount turbos which are the same SIZE as stock turbos so the EPA are none the wiser. Even though you can get far better emissions with a PFC - its still illegal, as are injectors.

Goes to show how essentially dumb laws are when a aftermarket tune is 10 times better emissions wise, yet is illegal because its 'not factory'.

There are always loop holes and ways to 'bend' the law to your own advantage. I reckon you could easily get 380rwkw legal enough (just change a PFC/injectors back to stock if you get a full EPA)… so its not as bad as you might think - IF you know what your doing and can read between the lines of the law.

The alternative is something that has tempted me for a long time, buy an old 240z and transplant a newer engine and drivetrain into it. I think they have some of the nicest lines of any car ever made and I would love to have a classic car like this but with all the advantages of a modern car. Would I be better off spending my hard earned on this?

I have attached a pic of what I mean, I hate to think how much this example cost all up but you certainly get the idea of what I am after.

Does anyone know of someone who has attempted a project like this?

Friend of mine (RPMZ) on the forum has been "going" to do this for years, he has a yellow 240 with a GT30, modified RB25 g'box to fit etc etc. He will get a 26 in there one day im told lol…

But still - you are restricted by the stock ECU issue mentioned about

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Yeah.. modded Stag hardly scores a blip on cop's radar compared to a Skyline. At speed, most of them won't even know what it is and think it's probably a loud Volvo.

I'd go the Stag rather than 240z as you already have one, it's newer and won't rust on you, and it's waaaay more practical.

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Probably

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