Police.

[V8skylineMAN]

it was NWA that said *** THE POLICE

So it was........but either way....this is how i feel about the cops

[GTR R35]

I would not agree 100% about Southo's comments.

Prima Facie is what Radars,LIDAR, speed cameras and hwy patrol speedos are presented as in court. This means that you cannot challange the accuracy of their readings unless you can prove they were incorectly used. A cop saying they booked you for doing X,Y or Z does not mean it is prima facie evidence, it can be contested and won in court without leagle advice.

We are not talking about Criminal or civil court, we are talking about infringement notices, they are easily challanged, its just most people cop the fine and do not take it further. The problem is cops are issueing more tickets for minor infringments to keep the statistics on proving they are doing their job. It is up to the officer to use his discresion to decide if to issue a ticket. One thing that really pi55es off a Magistrate is people bringing minor "warning only" type offences to court, the Magistrate will have a go at the police for wasting the time of the court and plantif (you).

Do not believe the hype about taking a ticket to court, I would like to see the stats for people who are sucessful at winning their cases about unfair infringement notices, I bet they would be above 60%.

There is never a "conviction" or Trial in infringements, they are no different to parking fines. Drink Driving is a conviction type offence, this is why you must go to court to face the music, unlike a speeding ticket or parking fine.

[Southo]

Sorry, yes, I did not word it right...

any infringements regarding use of a calibrated device are prima facie law (ie, they are right, you are wrong, unless you can prove they misused the device, even then, they can still hammer you.

Have a look at a book called "Under the Radar" - very good if you want to defend yourself in court against a prima facie case. www.roadsense.com.au is also very good resource.

I still stand by my second comment to get good legal advice - as has been shown many times - it's the little things that are said and questioned, that mean the difference between winning and losing in court.

[EVO83]

one questions. What is the chance that the cop would have had a tape recorder on him????

[GTR R35]

Jason,

Thank you for the link, it is a very good site. I think the admins should put this up as a permenant link for others to see.

I agree that you should seek legal advice if you are not experienced with the ways of the law. I guess I am lucky that I have friends who are cops and lawyers who like to chat about this subject and help me out if needed.

All the best

4doorgtr....aka Mal

[GTR R35]

Now in NSW highway cops are getting video camera's in there cars. They can pickup audio from conversations you are having IF they are directly behind you.

Be warned....ask if you are being recorded, before you say anything.

[SiX]

Incorrect.

Traffic convictions come under "Prima Facie" law - and therefore You have to prove your innocence, not the usual way around for criminal convictions.

That is why you have to go to court to protest your innocence, rather than the police drag you to cout to prove your guilt.

If you are in a situation like this - get some serious legal advise, find out your rights and responsibilities and carefully work out your options...  for some, it's not worth fighting - for others it is.

I though our law was innocent until proven guilty unlike American law which is the opposite. no?

[geschman]

Remember there are plenty of stories about cops being shot for a simple pullover by some crazed person.  Cops will always be over cautious.

I don't blame them the way things are today. If I was a cop, I'd live in my bullet-proof vest day & night.

Now in NSW highway cops are getting video camera's in there cars. They can pickup audio from conversations you are having IF they are directly behind you.

Be warned....ask if you are being recorded, before you say anything.

What are your options if you are informed that your conversation is being recorded?

I think that using a tape recorder is a good idea, as with asking for the names of the police, but does anybody else worry that this might escalate things?

I have only been pulled over a handful of times but on all occasions I have struck fair dinkum coppers, once for 140km/h in 60 zone (industrial estate, sole occupant of vehicle, 1am on a Sunday morning), who when treated with respect and told no lies have given me warnings.

I worry about meeting one of these arsehole coppers and am thinking about using a tape recorder to protect myself but it could be more trouble than it is worth. What happens if you come across one of the "good coppers" (Yes, they are out there... trust me ) and you piss him/her off by getting all 'I know my rights, name and number' with him/her. At the end of the day they have the power, and a simple ticket or RBT could end up as a ticket as long as your arm if they feel like it.

Where I live you do not want to piss off a cop. I haven't been on the receiving end of it but have an insight into how things work through parents friends and former neighbours who are cops. Piss off a cop (directly by being a smart arse or indirectly through hooning in a cops mate's street) and word gets around the station. Any spare moment they have someone will follow you around until you speed, forget to indicate, park too close to a corner, etc. and whamo! There seems to be no such thing as 'the one that got away' for the coppers up here.

It isn't right but that is the system and I can't see it changing in my lifetime.

[GTR R35]

I agree that in a smaller area you tend to get long term cops, but I think the country cops are the best, they understand and are generally fair.

Not in Sydney. 10/10 highway cops have an attitude, they are not much liked by the other branches, where the general duties and detectives are better....

You do not have options, you just think before you speak. Do not forget that this is evidence and you can also use it. I am sure they would give you a copy if it went to court as the cops must produce all their evidence to you before court, might be worth getting booked to get a video of my car being booked :-)

Mal

[VIPERGTSR01]

I don't blame them the way things are today.  If I was a cop, I'd live in my bullet-proof vest day & night.

whats wrong with things today?, how often do you hear of cops getting shot........... very very rare (in australia).

you hear more civilians getting shot (which is also rare).

[Black R32]

i live in lilydale across the road from the police station mind you, and i have two quik stories to tell. firstly, i was driving home one night from a mates place about 2 or 3 k's away, and i come up to a set of lights to turn right. light goes green so i give it a little. bad move. just around the corner was a cop car that had pulled someone over. as i was going round the corner, inside wheel starts to screech a little. em with my music hardly heard it but looking at the cops it was like, "forget this guy, p plater driving a skyline making screechy noises, lets get him!" i know it was wrong but i didn't even mean to. he pulls me after a k of following me and says. "did oyou know you went sideways round that intersection?" i said no i went a bit fast but not sideways. so this went on for a few minutes and then he asks for my license and i go, oh no i left my wallet at home. so blah blah blah, he gets me for not having my license with me. $50 no points. not bad. but they gave me that coz they couldn't get me for anything else.

Sorry so long

Story number 2:

My parents are freinds with a police officer. bad news for me. He says he heard about me getting pulled over and he told them how they meet their quota for daily rego checks. coz we live across the road from the cop shop. they just look out the window and do a check on our cars, and our neighbors. how bloody slack is that!!!

[JimX]

My parents are freinds with a police officer. bad news for me. He says he heard about me getting pulled over and he told them how they meet their quota for daily rego checks. coz we live across the road from the cop shop. they just look out the window and do a check on our cars, and our neighbors. how bloody slack is that!!!

I can sympathise with your first story, but I don't really understand how this one is unfair? Unless you are driving around without rego, in which case you deserve to be busted.

[JimX]

Where I live you do not want to piss off a cop.  I haven't been on the receiving end of it but have an insight into how things work through parents friends and former neighbours who are cops.  Piss off a cop (directly by being a smart arse or indirectly through hooning in a cops mate's street) and word gets around the station.  Any spare moment they have someone will follow you around until you speed, forget to indicate, park too close to a corner, etc. and whamo!  There seems to be no such thing as 'the one that got away' for the coppers up here.

It isn't right but that is the system and I can't see it changing in my lifetime.

Yep I definitely agree with that. A (female) friend of mine once got pulled up for doing around 12kph over the limit and turned down the advances of the cop, BAD MOVE! Well, not a bad move at all coz the cop was a short ugly f-wit, but she paid the price for it. Long story short, she ended up with a total of 12 years disqualification after a string of offences.

Now a lot of this was her own stupid fault, because she started driving around while disqualified and without rego at some points, but she never drove dangerously and never sped apart from that first offence. The reason she kept getting busted is because that cop and a few of his mates kept stalking her. They would wait in front of her house to see if she went to her car etc which she soon got wise to. But after that they would keep an eye out for her in her neighbourhood and they still found her and caught her repeatedly. It was total bollocks.

Many court cases later she managed to get the suspension reduced to 2 years and she can now legally drive again and has all her 12 points back. But she has caused the cops such a headache in court (especially since most of her charges got overtured) that they will now think twice before they pull her over again.

She is also planning on suing some of the cops in question for harrassing her like that. Once she panicked and got out of the car and ran, and ended up having a gun to her head. I think this is the cop she is mostly intent on suing. These cops are the kinds that you would punch in the face if they weren't cops.

[Black R32]

I'm not saying it's unfair. i just think it's slack that instead of going out and finding people who are actually doin something wrong to do checks they just sit around at the office at look out the window. just slack.