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Home Made Oil Pump

FineLine

By FineLine,
in Forced Induction Performance

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Guilt-Toy Grand Master

Guilt-Toy

Posted
Posted

Yes well Arnout is a little guy compared to Nitto the giant. He will be doing his own testing in house on his engine dyno and also do field testing as well. Don't under-estimate the dude he has done some pretty awesome stuff, and this is not easy.

at the end of the day, healthy competition and new ideas is what makes the tyres turn faster and faster every year!

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GTRPSI Mentor

GTRPSI

Posted
Posted
First of all a significant issue stems from the process of an engine block being tunnel bored to correct the alignment of the main journal tunnel which can lead to the crankshaft sitting several thou higher than its original position in the engine block (which believe it or not can also vary block to block from the factory). The oil pump stays in the same position when bolted to the block and leads to the upper section of the spline being driven harder and loads the gear set in an ununiformed manner. There is not an acceptable clearance for an involute spline that will properly allow for this and also combine it with the further issues below. Obviously this is detrimental to the durability of an oil pump.

I can't comment on how all this would come into play with the cheap sintered steel factory 2JZ gears but I can say that all this did not end overly well with our expensive nitride and treated EN Series billet steel gears in both operation & wear patterns and housing galling conditions. This is all just some information for you guys in regards to where we are at with this upgrade that we have been working hard on for so long now and is no disrespect to the gentleman designing the new pump listed.

Very good key valid points.

Line boring shifts the crank up higher, theoretically closing the gap in the gears towards the top and opening it towards the bottom, with high RPM and crank flex even more dangers.

Without offset pins on the oil pump you cannot compensate for the shift.

Sintered metal gears? There is the first weak point, even a basic engine like the Ford Boss V8 suffers from this weakness with everyone upgrading to GT40 style pumps.

I wouldnt recommend running sintered metal anything in a performance engine.

Maybe the pump builder can look into producing billet gears to overcome this.

Sort of now understand why Nitto was taking so long to come up with their new pump now.....

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black bnr32 Community Regular

black bnr32

Posted
Posted (edited)

Hi guys. Yes we have been working on this for quite some time now with very different real world results to the simplistic nature one would think of a project like this. Difference here is that we are actually doing the field testing (which is not easy on proper big HP RB engines with 2-step etc) and not releasing our product into the market without this.

The fine spline drive has shown many issues on an RB engine in areas that would normally not be thought of and has also really accentuated the differences between RB and 2JZ crankshaft properties and design.

First of all a significant issue stems from the process of an engine block being tunnel bored to correct the alignment of the main journal tunnel which can lead to the crankshaft sitting several thou higher than its original position in the engine block (which believe it or not can also vary block to block from the factory). The oil pump stays in the same position when bolted to the block and leads to the upper section of the spline being driven harder and loads the gear set in an ununiformed manner. There is not an acceptable clearance for an involute spline that will properly allow for this and also combine it with the further issues below. Obviously this is detrimental to the durability of an oil pump.

Second to this is the harsher harmonics that are found in an RB crankshaft as compared to a 2JZ item stemming a lot from the smaller journal overlap and also on a factory RB crankshaft from the 8 counter weight design. This is also further pronounced on a stroker crankshaft and when combined with the much smaller and weaker snout of an RB crankshaft this can lead to further clearance issues and gear loading.

I can't comment on how all this would come into play with the cheap sintered steel factory 2JZ gears but I can say that all this did not end overly well with our expensive nitride and treated EN Series billet steel gears in both operation & wear patterns and housing galling conditions. This is all just some information for you guys in regards to where we are at with this upgrade that we have been working hard on for so long now and is no disrespect to the gentleman designing the new pump listed.

We have a new design that is currently undergoing testing that will ensure a much higher level of drive durability without worry from the above conditions but, as always with our products, won't be released until Nitto is confident that it replicates what will suit all potential variations of RB engine builds without fault. Our track record with the current design pump is still excellent but upgrades are always good! Hopeful release date will be within the first quarter of next year but this, as always, will be subject to testing results.

The original design faces the same problems and works OK 99% of the time. If one does not address the above issues, which are easily solved IMO, then NO pump stands a chance.

How come these were a problem in your testing?

Edited by black bnr32
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89CAL Grand Master

89CAL

Posted
Posted

I can see why there would be alot of testing needed. With the low tolerences of having a gear drive it's not just a matter of bolting it on and going for it

Remember Nitto are a company sellling a product. Releasing a product prematurly and having failures would really hurt their reputation. I'm not sure but it looks a bit like this other pump is just a creation by someone who knows it can be done and will be a better concept. No reputation to live up to, no major consequences if it goes wrong.

I'm sure Nitto will get it right, and it will be spot on. But these things take time

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Sub Boy32 Rising Star

Sub Boy32

Posted
Posted

Personally I think if you are trying to improve an oil pump past a Nitto or a Tomei, then you should be running either a external pump with a wet or dry sump. A well built engine with correct clearances and play should have no problem with either of these two commercially available pumps, any thing more is serious drag or time attack engines (dry sump territory)

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  • 1 year later...
Guilt-Toy Grand Master

Guilt-Toy

Posted
Posted

hey guys, I have ordered one of these pumps for my rb30det here in the UAE, ive just pulled the engine down and checked it and all is good, the old n1 pump was working fine but its time to move onto something stronger.

will keep SAU updated on how it goes!

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  • 8 months later...
  • 2 years later...

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