Borg Warner EFR Series Turbo's V 2.0

[burn4005]

you're overthinking it and your gut feel is way off. Its primarily an oil drainage concern. 

the axial thrust forces on a compressor/turbine assembly are huge when operating at high mass flows. force on the thrust surfaces due to gravity will be orders of magnitude less. the compressor its trying to suck itself out the front of the turbo and the turbine is trying to blow itself out the exhaust. yes, these forces are in opposite directions but do not cancel completely which is why journal bearing turbos require a thrust bearing as they have no inherent axial stability otherwise.

from your chart the most appropriate bearing for a CHRA would either be a pair of identical 7s or a pair of 6s in a mirrored arrangement.

main concern is oil drainage and oil pooling at the back of the CHRA if the angle is excessive, for the same reason a maximum of 20degrees of rotation about the shaft axis is recommended.

remember, accelerating and braking the car at ~1g is going to impart more force on the rotating assembly than inclining it by even 45 degrees, let alone 10 or 20.

 

 

this is a question that should be directed at BW.

Edited May 4, 2021 by burn4005

[Josh222]

A little off topic here but this seems like the best place to ask, how would response be on an Airwerks turbo in twin scroll on a built 2.6L. Something like a S362SXE compared to the -5s on sitting on my shelf.

[Full-Race Geoff]

On 6/5/2021 at 6:09 AM, Josh222 said:

A little off topic here but this seems like the best place to ask, how would response be on an Airwerks turbo in twin scroll on a built 2.6L. Something like a S362SXE compared to the -5s on sitting on my shelf.

the SXE will spool about 300rpm later and have more top end.  good, simple, journal bearing turbo.

since this is the EFR thread - a mild 2.6L build with EFR8374 using internal wastegate/internal bov is a phenomenal performer.  it's about the same price as airwerks with external wg/bov if cost is the airwerks factor

Edited June 8, 2021 by Full-Race Geoff

[Unzipped Composites]

On 04/05/2021 at 11:40 AM, burn4005 said:

you're overthinking it and your gut feel is way off. Its primarily an oil drainage concern. 

the axial thrust forces on a compressor/turbine assembly are huge when operating at high mass flows. force on the thrust surfaces due to gravity will be orders of magnitude less. the compressor its trying to suck itself out the front of the turbo and the turbine is trying to blow itself out the exhaust. yes, these forces are in opposite directions but do not cancel completely which is why journal bearing turbos require a thrust bearing as they have no inherent axial stability otherwise.

from your chart the most appropriate bearing for a CHRA would either be a pair of identical 7s or a pair of 6s in a mirrored arrangement.

main concern is oil drainage and oil pooling at the back of the CHRA if the angle is excessive, for the same reason a maximum of 20degrees of rotation about the shaft axis is recommended.

remember, accelerating and braking the car at ~1g is going to impart more force on the rotating assembly than inclining it by even 45 degrees, let alone 10 or 20.

 

 

this is a question that should be directed at BW.

 

Few days late, and obviously not an EFR; but for what it's worth I've worked on a customer's 67 Impala that had twin GTX3582R's mounted vertically down on the bellhousing. Dry sump, so gravity drainage wasn't an issue, and no bearing problems.

 

 

 

Edited June 8, 2021 by Unzipped Composites
Found a better picture

[mugiwara no luffy]

Hey guys got tired of reading I got to page 100+ though around where the guy with the Supra with the nitrous. 
 

so my build rb30/26 with 9280 1.05 ar 

built head, cams are gsc s2

built block with 9.1 

on e85 and haltech/motec haven’t decided which one. So is there finally a verdict on a 9280 test on how much power it’ll put down?

how much bar/psi can I run? 
 

Im a circuit guy and I don’t really care about drag/ power so long as I get some bad ass lap times but, could I reach 1000 whp on an American dyno?

[Full-Race Geoff]

22 hours ago, mugiwara no luffy said:

rb30/26 with 9280 1.05 ar built head, cams are gsc s2 built block with 9.1 on e85... is there finally a verdict on a 9280 test on how much power it’ll put down?...how much bar/psi can I run? Im a circuit guy and I don’t really care about drag/ power so long as I get some bad ass lap times but, could I reach 1000 whp on an American dyno?

not sure if trolling or not, but you can use the matchbot page to accurately determine your parameters.  if you plan to run 1000whp on a circuit, youve got your work cut out for you

[Komdotkom]

1000whp on an american dyno is achievable with a pait of 2860's and 14psi isn't it?

[GTSBoy]

It's just a matter of where you hang the ambient temperature probe. Lying on the exhaust manifold is a good way to make the power.

[Dose Pipe Sutututu]

On 09/06/2021 at 1:26 PM, mugiwara no luffy said:

haltech/motec haven’t decided which one

Better choose MoTec, because apparently according to BW EFR Aficionados, Haltech ECUs causes motors to turn backwards.

[usmair]

On 09/06/2021 at 1:26 PM, mugiwara no luffy said:

Hey guys got tired of reading I got to page 100+ though around where the guy with the Supra with the nitrous. 
 

so my build rb30/26 with 9280 1.05 ar 

built head, cams are gsc s2

built block with 9.1 

on e85 and haltech/motec haven’t decided which one. So is there finally a verdict on a 9280 test on how much power it’ll put down?

how much bar/psi can I run? 
 

Im a circuit guy and I don’t really care about drag/ power so long as I get some bad ass lap times but, could I reach 1000 whp on an American dyno?

A 9274 with 1.45 rear has made 1000hp in Australia on a hub dyno so you should have a pretty good shot at it

[Lithium]

6 minutes ago, usmair said:

A 9274 with 1.45 rear has made 1000hp in Australia on a hub dyno so you should have a pretty good shot at it

9280. Powertune were corrected and never updated the post.  

[mugiwara no luffy]

thanks for the info! 
A friend of mine pioneered the Japanese tuners to stop using 90’s era t88s, gt-rs,and t51r’s back when the efr series started getting popular. Efr turbo’ed GTR’s were smashing the big turbo guys like me at Fuji so I figured I’d make the switch too. Just hard to find a quality tuner here in the states. I’m shooting for the moon I mean anything worth doing is worth over doing. 
Motor should be done here in a couple of months so I’ll post a dyno when I get it tuned. 
 

oh i bought the install package but didn’t come with the bolts to connect the super core to the exhaust housing any ideas what those bolt sizes are?

[gixer]

Borg Warner "perfectoin"!!! When you paid 3k$, waited 3 months and at the end get this shit 😶

[Full-Race Geoff]

 

On 6/10/2021 at 12:34 PM, mugiwara no luffy said:

A friend of mine pioneered the Japanese tuners to stop using 90’s era t88s, gt-rs,and t51r’s back when the efr series started getting popular. Efr turbo’ed GTR’s were smashing the big turbo guys like me at Fuji so I figured I’d make the switch too. Just hard to find a quality tuner here in the states... i bought the install package but didn’t come with the bolts to connect the super core to the exhaust housing any ideas what those bolt sizes are?

depending on which supercore you have (aluminum or stainless) youll want to get the appropriate mounting hardware for the exhaust housing.  But keep in mind they are A2-70 so I'd recommend acquiring the correct hardware - its unlikely you can find this at a hardware store

where are you located?  there are many top shelf tuners here in the states

 

22 hours ago, gixer said:

Borg Warner "perfectoin"!!! When you paid 3k$, waited 3 months and at the end get this shit 😶

where did you get this turbo from?  Your supplier should be able to get this handled by BW with a replacement cover.  the ported shroud B2 covers have casting inclusions like this from time to time.  there is zero impact on performance but the aesthetic is understandably unsettling

Edited June 22, 2021 by Full-Race Geoff

[cachorro]

Contemplating a 8374 1.05 vs. a 9174 1.05 on a built RB26. I will be running a Step 1 HKS 272 cam. What spool difference can I expect between both turbos?

[gixer]

1 hour ago, Full-Race Geoff said:

 

depending on which supercore you have (aluminum or stainless) youll want to get the appropriate mounting hardware for the exhaust housing.  But keep in mind they are A2-70 so I'd recommend acquiring the correct hardware - its unlikely you can find this at a hardware store

where are you located?  there are many top shelf tuners here in the states

 

where did you get this turbo from?  Your supplier should be able to get this handled by BW with a replacement cover.  the ported shroud B2 covers have casting inclusions like this from time to time.  there is zero impact on performance but the aesthetic is understandably unsettling

From a seller in my country, who got it from german suplier. He contact them immidiately and they told us they will notice BW. Next funny things is that i paid for whole assembled turbo and get the turbo in two piece, supercore and housing in separate boxes and without bolts and those little things, which hold them together. I am pissed 

[gixer]

 

 

please see response from Borg Warner for the EFR super core.

 

 

“Unfortunately the manufacturing processes sometimes results in parts as shown in the pictures that were provided. Your customer is understandably displeased with the appearance of the compressor cover.

 

Here is an official statement:

 

Although aesthetically imperfect, this is a cosmetic issue and will have no effect on the form fit or function of the compressor cover and/or turbocharger

 

So thats the official statement of BW. Totally unacceptable, when we talk for turbo of that price range, even a chinese crap for 150usd have better housing quality than this 3k$ shit. I am shocked how arrogant are those companies these days, they constantly brings the prices up, quality down and dont care about their customer satisfaction. If we want their crap, we have to live with those kind of bullshits, if we dont like it, they spit on our faces and told us somebody else will buy it. This is my 3rd EFR turbo and for me non of the competition have something to compete with those, but its my last one after this. I had and still have many other high end turbos like GTXs and Owendevelopments Garretts, so no cutting edges on prices and etc, but when i pay for something like that and waited more than 3 months for it, like its some sort of spaceship technology, i want to be with top quality and finish. Even their SX series are better executed, i have had 2 of them too. 🤬🤬🤬

Edited June 23, 2021 by gixer

[Shoota_77]

1 hour ago, gixer said:

 

 

please see response from Borg Warner for the EFR super core.

 

 

“Unfortunately the manufacturing processes sometimes results in parts as shown in the pictures that were provided. Your customer is understandably displeased with the appearance of the compressor cover.

 

Here is an official statement:

 

Although aesthetically imperfect, this is a cosmetic issue and will have no effect on the form fit or function of the compressor cover and/or turbocharger

 

So thats the official statement of BW. Totally unacceptable, when we talk for turbo of that price range, even a chinese crap for 150usd have better housing quality than this 3k$ shit. I am shocked how arrogant are those companies these days, they constantly brings the prices up, quality down and dont care about their customer satisfaction. If we want their crap, we have to live with those kind of bullshits, if we dont like it, they spit on our faces and told us somebody else will buy it. This is my 3rd EFR turbo and for me non of the competition have something to compete with those, but its my last one after this. I had and still have many other high end turbos like GTXs and Owendevelopments Garretts, so no cutting edges on prices and etc, but when i pay for something like that and waited more than 3 months for it, like its some sort of spaceship technology, i want to be with top quality and finish. Even their SX series are better executed, i have had 2 of them too. 🤬🤬🤬

Understand it’s not brilliant but don’t stress mate.  It has zero effect on performance so don’t worry about it.  You’ll have an intake pipe or air cleaner over the top of it so you or no one else will ever see it.  Base your opinion on the performance and reliability, not the aesthetics.  There are bigger issues to stress over than something that has no effect on anything!

Bolt it on and boost it!  It will be the last thing on your mind once you’re smashing it up the road!

[gixer]

Yes i know ill not seeing it, but i am mad that there are quality issues like those from 10 years and they get worse when at same time the price and waiting time goes up. When you buy a TV, or a phone, or a car and something else, their performance may be fine too, but itll not be cool the car paintjob to be scratched or panels dented and etc. No effect on the performance should not be an excuse for cutting corners and expenses and in same time you want more from the customer and the worst thing you waiting months for this. But whatever...

Edited June 23, 2021 by gixer

[Full-Race Geoff]

On 6/22/2021 at 9:16 AM, cachorro said:

Contemplating a 8374 1.05 vs. a 9174 1.05 on a built RB26. I will be running a Step 1 HKS 272 cam. What spool difference can I expect between both turbos?

which manifold and wastegate config are you considering?  If divided manifold and dual gates, theres ~300rpm spool difference from 8374 to 9174.  

as a reference point, one of my customers recently switched from 8374 1.05 to g35-1050 1.06 to 8474 1.05 on his 2.5L subaru sti track car.  8474 was almost identical spool to 8374 and it was a surprise to me

 

 

Edited June 23, 2021 by Full-Race Geoff