Which should I go with GTX2863, 2530, or 2860-5

[Trailmix]

I'm not being contradictory I'm stating facts the Garrett plates on the turbos are 14411-AA403, now what the car is producing powerwise and what I am seeing full boost at is not what they should be. I will try to post some pics of the plates on the turbos. There is a slight lope at idle, not enough to be super large cams. 

[No Crust Racing]

20 minutes ago, Trailmix said:

No matter the difference in dynos. My turbos are not that responsive low end like a -7 should be not seeing full boost until 5500 range. The gtx2860/2863 should spool up around the same, as my current setup? 

Let me explain. 

 

N1s are full boost (low 20s) WAY earlier than that, even with Cams, unless it has the tamest tune in history.

N1s, on pump fuel are not going to make 530rwhp, not here anyway. 

5500RPM is high boost on -5s territory, with big cams, on pump.... 

"GTX2860/2863 should spool up around the same, as my current setup? " Who knows, because your setup is a mystery. 

A tag on a housing means nothing if the cores are not standard. 

None of what you're saying adds up so we're not going to be able to help you easily. 

 

 

Edited July 25, 2017 by ActionDan

[Trailmix]

I'm running VP C9 fuel which is 100ron, which is not going to make -7 produce like -5. Though I  should be getting retuned on a haltech in the near future I will post results with more data boost, afrs and timing. 

Edited July 25, 2017 by Trailmix

[No Crust Racing]

Fuel will definitely help.

Good luck with the tune, post graphs and then people smarter than me can help you properly. 

[Piggaz]

Dragging this back on topic, I think Dan (Lithium) is on the money here.

A GTX 2860 flows just on what a pair of GT RS's do. Seeing that you goal is 600-650 whp, there is no need to go any larger than the 60 mm unit. Don't go putting the wheels where they don't belong (T25 housings). They never perform as well as GTX's in their original homes! GTR guys could learn something from the Gtst boys here ?. Yes it will mean playing with piping but if you're hell bent on staying twins, do it properly!

Do yourself a favour though, put those stupid Tomei manifolds in the bin. They don't add anything over a set of tickled up stockers (I backed to back them years ago)... but won't crack! (I cracked two sets myself).

2863's and above need more turbine IMO. The side that no one ever seems to look at or consider. The compressor is only half the turbo. It has to get out too!

[djvoodoo]

7 minutes ago, Piggaz said:

Dragging this back on topic, I think Dan (Lithium) is on the money here.

A GTX 2860 flows just on what a pair of GT RS's do. Seeing that you goal is 600-650 whp, there is no need to go any larger than the 60 mm unit. Don't go putting the wheels where they don't belong (T25 housings). They never perform as well as GTX's in their original homes! GTR guys could learn something from the Gtst boys here ?. Yes it will mean playing with piping but if you're hell bent on staying twins, do it properly!

Do yourself a favour though, put those stupid Tomei manifolds in the bin. They don't add anything over a set of tickled up stockers (I backed to back them years ago)... but won't crack! (I cracked two sets myself).

2863's and above need more turbine IMO. The side that no one ever seems to look at or consider. The compressor is only half the turbo. It has to get out too!

I'm a real life guinea pig putting 2863 GTX wheels into what is essentially a -9 turbo (2510). I'll let you know how much money i wasted on Friday when i get my car back :-)

[Piggaz]

16 minutes ago, djvoodoo said:

I'm a real life guinea pig putting 2863 GTX wheels into what is essentially a -9 turbo (2510). I'll let you know how much money i wasted on Friday when i get my car back :-)

If you look up the turbine wheel size of a 2510, it's significantly smaller than a -9. Putting a compressor capable of flowing north of 40 lb/min (when in the original housing) being driven by a peanut rear isn't ideal for a goal of 350 kw. It screams mini  2540! Too much compressor, not enough hot side.

 

[djvoodoo]

Isn't a GT-SS rated at 560 ps and the 2510 rated at 600ps though?

[Piggaz]

Just now, djvoodoo said:

Isn't a GT-SS rated at 560 ps and the 2510 rated at 600ps though?

Look at the turbine wheel sizes.

Bench marking turbo's on a horse power number is as useless as tits on a bull.

[TXSquirrel]

Those output ratings are per turbo at the crank, so if running twin then x2.  Like Garrett rates the -7s at 250ps and -5s at 310ps.

[Piggaz]

7 minutes ago, TXSquirrel said:

Those output ratings are per turbo at the crank, so if running twin then x2.  Like Garrett rates the -7s at 250ps and -5s at 310ps.

On what fuel?

On what engine?

Run those turbo's on a diesel car, will you still get the same power?

[TXSquirrel]

5 minutes ago, Piggaz said:

On what fuel?

On what engine?

Run those turbo's on a diesel car, will you still get the same power?

Those questions are for Garrett corporate since that is what they publish on their website.

[Lithium]

2 hours ago, TXSquirrel said:

Those questions are for Garrett corporate since that is what they publish on their website.

Smh.

For a start, if you read the Garrett technical articles to try and broaden your horizons a bit (try starting here: https://www.turbobygarrett.com/turbobygarrett/turbo_tech_basic) you'll find that their tech info contradicts what is just meant to be a loose guideline for people who don't know enough to work out the suitability of a turbo for their car better.  I think it's a silly idea doing even that as it causes this kind of conversation, and I was sick of them ten years ago.  There are WAY too many variables involved to make a power claim like that, as evidenced by the fact that if you put a 525hp rated GT3076R on a motor with no supporting mods it doesn't instantly make 525hp just because it has a 525hp rating.

Now, my experience with people saying the things you have so far there is no point me pushing that point further so I'll stick with something much more obvious and easy to digest (hopefully).  HKS did NOT put that power rating on the GT2510, and they have never put a power rating on a HKS/Garrett GTX2563R as they never made one - so there is no reason to think that squeezing a compressor wheel from a GTX2863R into the compressor housing of a GT2510 and make the engine it's feeding try and flow through the GT2510 exhaust wheel is going to result in way more power than HKS ever rated the GT2510 to.

So yes, sure - someone can physically make some Frankenstein out of Garrett and HKS bits... but don't expect to take the technical or marketing documentation of those two and expect them to reflect on what the resulting mutant will behave like.   

Edited July 26, 2017 by Lithium

[TXSquirrel]

I understand what you are talking about, and I am absolutely fully aware of that.

Piggaz posted a table, djvoodoo had a question about a number in that table, I answered how that number is meant to be x2, then I provided an example from Garrett because that is also how Garrett markets their products.  

So that's about it.  And I doubt anyone who is actually viewing this board would take those marketing materials as absolute, this audience is better than that.

[djvoodoo]

Ok.....

 

So the internet winz again. Wasted my time and money.

I gained power right up the top of the rev range. Apart from that, i lost power, torque and response pretty much everywhere else. Is laggy too.........

[Dose Pipe Sutututu]

LOL...

It's worse than a GTS-t with an eBay turbo.

Didn't we all advise you not to do It?

[Lithium]

2 hours ago, djvoodoo said:

Ok.....

 

So the internet winz again. Wasted my time and money.

I gained power right up the top of the rev range. Apart from that, i lost power, torque and response pretty much everywhere else. Is laggy too.........

 

Shit that sucks.  To be honest that is worse than I expected... Enough so that I suspect that something may need sorting there.  How did you do the compressor upgrade etc?  Is there any chance something isn't air tight or whatever ?

I am a skeptic of the combo BUT that still seems a bit off to me.  What did it make before playing with the turbos?

 

Edit: oh pump gas.  Right that explains some of it but that lag seems over the top to me still 

Edited July 28, 2017 by Lithium

[djvoodoo]

1 hour ago, Dose Pipe Sutututu said:

LOL...

It's worse than a GTS-t with an eBay turbo.

Didn't we all advise you not to do It?

Yep!!!!!!!! and i didn't listen lol.

Now very likely to go to a nice single turbo.

Lesson learnt... the hard way.... 

[djvoodoo]

1 hour ago, Lithium said:

Shit that sucks.  To be honest that is worse than I expected... Enough so that I suspect that something may need sorting there.  How did you do the compressor upgrade etc?  Is there any chance something isn't air tight or whatever ?

I am a skeptic of the combo BUT that still seems a bit off to me.  What did it make before playing with the turbos?

 

Edit: oh pump gas.  Right that explains some of it but that lag seems over the top to me still 

Turbos were rebuilt by a reputable shop in Syd. Won't name names, but when I asked, i specifically said were they going to be laggier than a -9 and they answer was 'no, should be more responsive'....

I am using Garrett 15psi actuators. Tuner had them set to 15psi as i asked.

Everything seems airtight, but i'll need to take a closer look. 

[Piggaz]

Voodoo, out of curiosity, what did that whole exercise set you back? I wouldn't imagine it would have been cheap.

It would be more than a bit disappointing for sure!

Whats the plan now? Will you leave the twins on there for a while?