Ross RB Power Steering Pump Relocation Bracket

[GeeDog]

Ross make a billet bracket that relocates the power steering pump on an RB to where the A/C compressor normally lives. It is designed for track use, and is to shorten the PS drive belt and prevent the belt jumping off.

We have an R33 track car, and have broken or lost the power steering belt several times now. The belt is a 3PK, and only goes over 2 pulleys - the harmonic balancer & the PS pump. Each time we've lost the belt, it has been when downshifting from high revs - when braking for a corner at the end of a straight. I believe the reverse torque when the clutch is released is causing the belt to jump, and sometimes enough to come off.

I'm looking for anyone who has used this Ross bracket, or any other feedback on it. Any assistance would be appreciated.

 

Edited August 11, 2019 by GeeDog

[K_arlstrom]

I'm going for another solution, electrohydraulic power steering pump from a mr2! More info on this site https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.diyelectriccar.com/forums/showthread.php/power-steering-using-toyota-mr2-ehps-19505.html%3famp=1

Not because I've had issues, but my rebuild/refresh turned into a restomod and this also gives me more space under the bonnet. Hope someone got experience with the bracket

[GeeDog]

Thanks Jonas, we'll look into that option as well.

Edited August 12, 2019 by GeeDog

[iruvyouskyrine]

Sorry if i'm missing something obvious. Do you run the factory setup and have issues, or you run the ross item and are having issues after the switch?

[GeeDog]

38 minutes ago, iruvyouskyrine said:

Sorry if i'm missing something obvious. Do you run the factory setup and have issues, or you run the ross item and are having issues after the switch?

We run the factory setup and have issues. The Ross bracket is supposed to stop the issues, and I was looking for anyone who has used ne to confirm that I'm not wasting my money - they aren't cheap.

[Komdotkom]

Following with interest, while I agree it's a pretty expensive bit of kit for what they provide but when you consider that you could ruin a race weekend with a damaged belt or bin the car due to power steering failure it doesn't seem so bad.

FWIW I have put Astra electric power steer on a car and would never do it again without being able to adjust line pressure vs wheel speed, it was like driving a 70's Valiant with power steering with zero feel/feedback.

 

[GTSBoy]

20 minutes ago, Komdotkom said:

FWIW I have put Astra electric power steer on a car and would never do it again without being able to adjust line pressure vs wheel speed, it was like driving a 70's Valiant with power steering with zero feel/feedback.

But, in these days of Arduino, surely that's a triviality.

[Komdotkom]

Not that simple with the Astra stuff unless you know the CAN protocol.

If I was to do it again I'd do a powered column instead of an electric pump.

[Bowlsclubboy]

Just to clear this up GeeDog, I work for Ross Performance as a machinist and in tech support. That power steering relocation bracket is designed for use when a customer needs to use one of our 1000hp Race Series Harmonic Dampers and also retain AC (without flicking belts off as soon as you hit boost). It is used in conjunction with the rest of this kit to space the PS and AC units forward 25.4mm for their new belt path.
https://rossperformanceparts.com/product/nissan-rb-air-conditioner-relocation-kit/

Perhaps this would help fix your problem?
https://rossperformanceparts.com/product/nissan-rb-power-steering-idler-assembly-to-suit-serpentine-belt/

Troy

Edited September 2, 2019 by Bowlsclubboy
grammar

[GeeDog]

4 hours ago, Bowlsclubboy said:

Just to clear this up GeeDog, I work for Ross Performance as a machinist and in tech support

Hi Troy, nice to hear from you.

4 hours ago, Bowlsclubboy said:

That power steering relocation bracket is designed for use when a customer needs to use one of our 1000hp Race Series Harmonic Dampers and also retain AC

Ok, that info doesn't seem to be readily available - the page for this kit has no info at all on what it's for, how it works etc. My info on using it to stop the belt coming off came from a third party, and seemed to make sense in the absence of other data.

4 hours ago, Bowlsclubboy said:

Perhaps this would help fix your problem?

It looks like it would help, but the webpage says "Note: This assembly is designed to fit with a Ross Nissan RB25 Billet Power Steering Pump Bracket (will not fit on a OEM RB30 power steering pump bracket)." These 2 kits together are $900+ - thats a lot of belts. Maybe I'll stock up on them.

Cheers

Geoff

 

 

 

 

[Dose Pipe Sutututu]

On 15/08/2019 at 7:26 AM, Komdotkom said:

FWIW I have put Astra electric power steer on a car and would never do it again without being able to adjust line pressure vs wheel speed, it was like driving a 70's Valiant with power steering with zero feel/feedback

Use your ECU and use PWM to control the duty cycle vs. vehicle speed.

Similar strategy to controlling fuel pumps where DC is mapped against manifold pressure.

We don't live in a world with Microcraps and PowerFCs anymore

 

[iruvyouskyrine]

20 minutes ago, Dose Pipe Sutututu said:

Use your ECU and use PWM to control the duty cycle vs. vehicle speed.

Similar strategy to controlling fuel pumps where DC is mapped against manifold pressure.

We don't live in a world with Microcraps and PowerFCs anymore

 

The required info for being able to do this isn't readily available. I did a fair bit of google-fu when looking to convert to elec PS but everyone says the same thing 'just PWM the output'. But when pressed for info nobody has ever done it they just assume its that easy but finding any actual info about PWM/CAN controlled powersteering pumps is extremely difficult.

I'm sure there is people out there who have done it but nobody is forthcoming with any easily digestible information. 

[Bowlsclubboy]

Thanks Geoff, this is what happens when the webpage designer isn't given the exact information (or none at all) and they decide to think for themselves. The idler will fit OEM power steering pump brackets for RB20, RB25, RB26 (and i thought RB30 but will confirm) as well as any brackets that we've manufactured. As for the PS relocation kit, I'll get some info added to the site to save future confusion. Feel free to PM me or call the shop if you want more info.

Troy

[sneakey pete]

Pretty sure the older style ones have inbuilt controls that have a sort of boot up cycle so pulsing the input to them is actually counter productive. Newer ones with actual CANbus input are available but as said there's no info about their control systems.

[Komdotkom]

3 hours ago, Dose Pipe Sutututu said:

Use your ECU and use PWM to control the duty cycle vs. vehicle speed.

Similar strategy to controlling fuel pumps where DC is mapped against manifold pressure.

We don't live in a world with Microcraps and PowerFCs anymore

 

As others have said it's not that simple. I didn't bother trying a timer (for pump start up) then SSD voltage control vs wheel speed because that car didn't have an ECU that could easily be made to do that (Autronic SM4).

I would still use a powered column if I was to do it again since they are simpler to configure the amount of assistance provided.

[GeeDog]

3 hours ago, Bowlsclubboy said:

and i thought RB30 but will confirm

We are running an RB25/30, so RB30 bottom end (including P/S bracket I think), so confirmation would be good.

Thanks again for the info.

 

[Dose Pipe Sutututu]

I stand corrected, I was under the impression it was that simple, as it has been done by SW20 owners

[K_arlstrom]

21 hours ago, iruvyouskyrine said:

The required info for being able to do this isn't readily available... 

I'll share what I have, this applies to MR2 "Spyder" EHPS.

5V digital PWM (on-off) to pin 2 in the middle connector, someone measured frequency VS current draw/pump output.
20 Hz       8.5A
36 Hz       7A
52 Hz       5.6A
63 Hz       5A
83 Hz       4A
110 Hz  ~3A
>150 Hz 2.2 - 2.7A

Information regarding pin numbers and some more good-to-have can be found at https://www.ffcars.com/forums/1812812-post48.html

[Icehoty]

Hi guys sorry to bump an older thread. I'm wondering does this bracket help with the spacing of the balancer? I have a similar issue on my rb25 when we installed an ATI balancer and still have the stock PS location/bracket so it is slightly off angled due to the balancer being further forward and under higher rpm just throws the belt. is there any difference from the ross and ati balancer?