timing chain tensioner wont install

[Rusty Nuts]

6 hours ago, Rusty Nuts said:

to get the tensioner to insert you need more slack on the chain on that side, you need to rotate the inlet cam anticlockwise to remove the slack in the chain between the cam sprockets without moving the crankshaft from its TDC position

Use a spanner on the hex on the inlet cam to rotate it anticlockwise to remove the slack in the chain between the cam sprockets. This slack will allow you to insert the tensioner I think.

[silviaz]

5 hours ago, Rusty Nuts said:

Use a spanner on the hex on the inlet cam to rotate it anticlockwise to remove the slack in the chain between the cam sprockets. This slack will allow you to insert the tensioner I think.

Ok thanks.

[silviaz]

17 hours ago, Rusty Nuts said:

Use a spanner on the hex on the inlet cam to rotate it anticlockwise to remove the slack in the chain between the cam sprockets. This slack will allow you to insert the tensioner I think.

Mate you're a legend! I did what you said and has to do some other stuff to get it right and I got the tensioner in! My idea was first to hold the sprocket in place on the hex while I turn the engine counter clockwise but didn't work. Instead just turned the crank counter clockwise, then I turned the hex on its own and heard the tensioner click in! Don't know if it's 100% in but looks good. I also turned the engine then clockwise a couple of times (it's currently on tdc as per the picture) What do you think? I think I need to turn it until the links line up? Because I am pretty sure I never lost the gold link on the bottom as I always held the chain tight.

 

[Rusty Nuts]

Glad you got the tensioner in, but what happened to your yellow marks if its at TDC.

[silviaz]

49 minutes ago, Rusty Nuts said:

Glad you got the tensioner in, but what happened to your yellow marks if its at TDC.

Well I turned the crank clockwise couple of times, and i heard every time you turn it it will lose the marks anyways. So not sure how many times I need to turn it and if I need to get it to the yellow marks.

[Rusty Nuts]

15 minutes ago, silviaz said:

Well I turned the crank clockwise couple of times, and i heard every time you turn it it will lose the marks anyways. So not sure how many times I need to turn it and if I need to get it to the yellow marks.

Well its a 4 stroke mate so you turn them twice to get back on compression stroke, which makes me worry you have your yellow marks on wrong stroke. On compression stroke both valves will be closed at TDC.

[Rusty Nuts]

If you are on wrong stroke (exhaust stroke) at TDC the exhaust valve will be closing and the inlet valve will be opening.

[silviaz]

1 hour ago, Rusty Nuts said:

Well its a 4 stroke mate so you turn them twice to get back on compression stroke, which makes me worry you have your yellow marks on wrong stroke. On compression stroke both valves will be closed at TDC.

Oh so if I understand correctly. If i turn the crank pulley around once to tdc that is one revolution? and I need to do 2 revolutions? What is the best thing for me to do now? I'm guessing either to get my endoscope and get a mirror so I can see my valves if they are closed or turn the crank again to tdc until something lines up?

Edited December 14, 2019 by silviaz

[Rusty Nuts]

17 minutes ago, silviaz said:

I'm guessing either to get my endoscope and get a mirror so I can see my valves if they are closed or turn the crank again to tdc until something lines up?

You can see if the valves are opened or opening from the top, by looking at the cam lobes, mate. In picture 2 you posted today you can see that the inlet cam has closed the valve I can not see the exhaust lobe in that photo.

Edited December 14, 2019 by Rusty Nuts

[silviaz]

15 minutes ago, Rusty Nuts said:

You can see if the valves are opened or opening from the top, by looking at the cam lobes, mate. In picture 2 you posted today you can see that the inlet cam has closed the valve I can not see the exhaust lobe in that photo.

apologies about that here is a better photo. but something very troubling. I can see the gold link in between the sprockets!

 

[Rusty Nuts]

Mate, its become obvious that the chain is installed wrong, at this point to prevent any damage to parts by rotating the engine you need to bite the bullet and get some eyes on help, I would lift the engine half out of the car (leave the gearbox attached) this will give you access to the timing cover so you can set the chain right and while I applaud your efforts you need someone who knows their way around a twin cam engine standing next to you.

[silviaz]

24 minutes ago, Rusty Nuts said:

Mate, its become obvious that the chain is installed wrong, at this point to prevent any damage to parts by rotating the engine you need to bite the bullet and get some eyes on help, I would lift the engine half out of the car (leave the gearbox attached) this will give you access to the timing cover so you can set the chain right and while I applaud your efforts you need someone who knows their way around a twin cam engine standing next to you.

Oh ok, when you say installed wrong does this assume the person who had the car before me installed it it wrong or is it from all the fiddling around I've done? I'm just trying to think where I went wrong, because as I rotate the engine the gold link would have to come up eventually. But it is probably a better idea what you're suggesting.

I wanted to take the risk to rotate the engine until I get the marks line up (the silver ones and HOPE the gold one is on the crankshaft. I tried to get my endoscope down there to try and check the gold link when it was done but it kept getting stuck).

Is the risk of engine damage huge in terms of the piston hitting the valve?

[Rusty Nuts]

5 minutes ago, silviaz said:

Is the risk of engine damage huge in terms of the piston hitting the valve?

Yes, bent valve stem, damaged valve guide, damaged piston, broken rocker arm to think of a few.

[silviaz]

Just now, Rusty Nuts said:

Yes, bent valve stem, damaged valve guide, damaged piston, broken rocker arm to think of a few.

Alright. I'll take your advice and get an expert to check it out. Thanks again. I have cranked it a few times already so im curious at what point after cranking will the piston hit the valve. Either way will wait for an expert.

[Rusty Nuts]

18 minutes ago, silviaz said:

will wait for an expert.

Good choice mate, eyes on, beats me on the internet hundreds of km's away, anyday.

[silviaz]

55 minutes ago, Rusty Nuts said:

Good choice mate, eyes on, beats me on the internet hundreds of km's away, anyday.

Hey mate, good news i believe. I ended up calling a mechanic he gave me some advice (but he did say he would have to take off the timing cover to ensure everything was 100%), and told me it was safe to crank the engine and that I would get resistance if the piston was to hit the valve. I also managed to get the silver links to line up! I had to turn the crank for a good while lol. Spent over 20 minutes turning and had no problem though it was harder to turn at some points.

 

Currently its not on silver links I wanted to rotate the engine again to ensure that there was no hitting of the valves and such so will need to crank it quite more to get it again. Though I have a concern my timing chain I think is jumping what do you think?

Lastly, I think I had a good idea to avoid taking off the timing cover if needed be. I'll get the yellow mark to be up the top and every link after it I will mark it with a number starting from one to see if I have (I think its 48 links inbetween)

 

 

[Rusty Nuts]

Go for it mate, as you are cranking clockwise it might be easier to count roller pins from the inlet cam silver link as the gold link is 56 roller pins away down the left hand side of the chain, so you can count them as they roll past. The slacking of the chain you see sometimes is just the cam rolling off its high point causing the chain to look jumpy, remember you don't have the top tensioner on.

Edited December 14, 2019 by Rusty Nuts

[silviaz]

Just now, Rusty Nuts said:

Go for it mate, as you are cranking clockwise it might be easier to count roller pins from the inlet cam silver link as the gold link is 56 roller pins away down the left hand side of the chain, so you can count them as they roll past. The slacking of the chain you see sometimes is just the cam rolling off its high point causing the chain to look jumpy, remember you don't have the top tensioner on.

The top tensioner, I understand that's so it doesn't jump up, but not in my case the chain seems to go down so not sure how that makes a difference.

Edited December 14, 2019 by silviaz

[Ben C34]

27 minutes ago, silviaz said:

Hey mate, good news i believe. I ended up calling a mechanic he gave me some advice (but he did say he would have to take off the timing cover to ensure everything was 100%), and told me it was safe to crank the engine and that I would get resistance if the piston was to hit the valve. I also managed to get the silver links to line up! I had to turn the crank for a good while lol. Spent over 20 minutes turning and had no problem though it was harder to turn at some points.

 

Currently its not on silver links I wanted to rotate the engine again to ensure that there was no hitting of the valves and such so will need to crank it quite more to get it again. Though I have a concern my timing chain I think is jumping what do you think?

Lastly, I think I had a good idea to avoid taking off the timing cover if needed be. I'll get the yellow mark to be up the top and every link after it I will mark it with a number starting from one to see if I have (I think its 48 links inbetween)

 

 

I hope the spark plugs were out during this otherwise that extra resistance was valves and pistons hitting

[silviaz]

4 minutes ago, Ben C34 said:

I hope the spark plugs were out during this otherwise that extra resistance was valves and pistons hitting

Yes they were.