Bent Chassis Rails - Jacking issue ?

[Strexx]

So all four points where it would be obvious to jack up my R32 GTST have bent/crushed chassis rails (See photos - one from each point) So has the car been jacked up from the wrong point?  Would you usually jack up the the car from the chassis rail  in front of each wheel? Where is the recommended position to jack up the car from both back & front?  I have been jacking up the rear as per the last photo. Next question is can this ever be repaired, I would only assume that some sort of steel plate could be welded across the damaged area.  Lastly - I had a wheel alignment completed and the mechanic told me that the chassis rails were all bent - I hope he meant compressed/squashed but he was not chatty so I don't know if he meant that this would affect the wheel alignment - Does the damaged rails pose any other concerns?

[GTSBoy]

You ABSOLUTELY DO NOT jack up the car under the chassis rails.

Those rails are f u c k e d and have obviously been used to jack the car. They are very close to unrecoverably f u c k e d and the care is totally defectable in Australia because of it.

The only place to jack the car, using a scissor jack, is at the correct jacking points which are under the sill panels. You can see them very clearly when you look for them. If not using a scissor jack, then the only place is with a trolley jack or similar under the centre of the front subframe (very carefully!!!!) or under the diff/rear subframe as appropriate.

[Steve85]

I'm sorry to say you look like you might be in a spot of bother. Your rails are in a very bad way and should be looked at by a professional workshop (if possible who are familiar with old Nissans). 
You also appear to have a significant amount of rust under the car, which may also be part of the issue (if we exclude the fact someone has used the incorrect jacking points. 

My advice here would be to have a workshop check it out. You may also have some difficulty in finding the correct jacking points as they may now be folded/damaged, if the other images you sent through are any indication. 
Have a quick look through the forum for a topic on how to jack up your car, hopefully someone has some images of a mint underside that you can use as a reference. 

[junkie]

Looks like it was picked up and moved by a forklift a few times

[GTSBoy]

23 minutes ago, junkie said:

Looks like it was picked up and moved by a forklift a few times

Some of it maybe, but there are clear signs of small jack heads pushing the lower surface of the rail up and leaving the sides less crushed. When a forklift wrecks rails, it crushes everything. See this here - obvious trolley jack head tooth marks!

And here, the rail is punched upwards from below but the side of the rail are not punched up equally. This is definitely done by a jack, and you can see the teeth marks in the circled area too.

A crash repairer will want thousands to fix this. I've spoken to a good crashie about this and he says it is uneconomic to fix them. You might do it on a $50k+ GTR, but not a rusted shitter.

[admS15]

A bucket of bog, some black rattle can and she'll be right mate.

[Shoota_77]

It's a dog of a job but definitely doable.  I did it years ago on my Datto 1200 and while they're not as integral part of the chassis strength on the Datto as the Skyline, still definitely a job that someone with some decent metal working skills can have a crack at.

I cut out the dented and rusted sections, shaped new steel and welded it in.  If you were able to get hold of a really good shell you could drill out the spot welds and remove them from the shell.  Weld them on to your car and you're good to go.

A skilled metal worker could easily replicate the rails too.

As was mentioned, no disrespect to anyone's car but you have to weigh up the cost versus reward.  When there's heaps of donor GTS-T shells still around you're better off transferring the good stuff from yours onto a better shell and enjoy it for a few years longer.  Or, spend the time making your baby like new again!

A few photos of one section of my Datto chassis rail repair.  I had waaaaaaay less welding skill back then than I do now so would be a lot easier to do now! (As an aside you can see where I've drilled out the spot welds to get it off the chassis)

 

[Strexx]

Thanks all - Yep seems that I have a task ahead of me - Nevertheless the I got a Blueslip last week  (Without a 24 pack) - I guess the trickiest option will be to get it under it with enough space to grind/weld - Need a hoist!!  But I've completed two years at TAFE doing metal forming so have a bit of an idea of how to get there - Just don't have the tooling. With regards to rust most of it seems to be surface rust not horrid corrosion - Ideally I'd like to try and pull out the dents first - Surely if I can get it up enough - I could make a rig with thread bar/Unistrut that could ease out some of the divets but thinking that a cut n weld replacements in is the best option. I found a place in Japan where the replacement rails are about $100 a piece.  Whilst I'm at it what is the best product to use on the under body as a deadener sealer? BTW the Datto works look great!

[Shoota_77]

@Strexx mate if you’ve got a bit of metal fab skill you’re laughing, you’ll do it easy!  I shaped that repair section on a curb outside my garage using just a hammer and grinder ? so with a few basic tools and your skills you’ll get a great result. Get some good quality jack stands and get the car up as high off the ground (but be safe!) as you can to make drilling out the spot welds as easy as possible. Use a wire wheel in the grinder to expose the spot weld locations to start with.

The replacement rails from Japan definitely sound like the go. 
Get into it and give it a go!
Make sure you post up some results!

[maddy400r33]

Been thinking about prevention rather than a cure, could extra plating be added to aid lifting with jacks, and post lifts. Chassis sections seem weak not fit for lifting, even race track breds needed attention.

My problem is driving safety agency, MOT is every year, so need to prep something to allow them to lift, the middle section of lift is used to lift car so they can test front and rear suspension.

[GTSBoy]

No.

There are defined jacking points under the sills. Any moron in a workshop knows to put the lifting points on a 2 post hoist under these. There are shaped steel and rubber blocks that come with hoists to permit them to fit exactly.

Why f**k with 50 years of experience?

[maddy400r33]

Must look at handbook and get a marker on them to aid the moron in the workshop. 

On 12/31/2019 at 11:52 PM, GTSBoy said:

Why f**k with 50 years of experience?

Because ive seen nearly every skyline with bend sill sections. 

[joshuaho96]

AFAIK the R32 sills are especially soft. Nissan reinforced them on the R33 and R34.

[GTSBoy]

2 hours ago, maddy400r33 said:

Because ive seen nearly every skyline with bend sill sections.

It only takes one proper moron to f**k a car. They are getting on for 30 years old now.

I pulled the dents out of mine with a slide hammer and some hand made special tool attachments for it. And it's never given to someone I don't trust to put on a hoist.

[maddy400r33]

Yeh, trying to keep mine as factory fresh, and away from morons. 

[The_Hunster]

On 30/12/2019 at 5:19 PM, Strexx said:

Thanks all - Yep seems that I have a task ahead of me - Nevertheless the I got a Blueslip last week  (Without a 24 pack) - I guess the trickiest option will be to get it under it with enough space to grind/weld - Need a hoist!!  But I've completed two years at TAFE doing metal forming so have a bit of an idea of how to get there - Just don't have the tooling. With regards to rust most of it seems to be surface rust not horrid corrosion - Ideally I'd like to try and pull out the dents first - Surely if I can get it up enough - I could make a rig with thread bar/Unistrut that could ease out some of the divets but thinking that a cut n weld replacements in is the best option. I found a place in Japan where the replacement rails are about $100 a piece.  Whilst I'm at it what is the best product to use on the under body as a deadener sealer? BTW the Datto works look great!

Just wanted to bump this thread up again as I am looking at potentially undertaking the same project on fixing my crushed 32 gtst rails.

If the original poster is still around do you mind sharing where you found the company in Japan that manufactures replacement rail sections? I'd also be interested to know how progress on your repair job is going.

 

[TXSquirrel]

I believe the front piece of rail is still in production, but you may want to double check with the vendor.

Right side: 75110-05U30  Left side: 75111-05U30

And if anyone wonders why every R32 front sills are crushed and not R33/R34, Garage Yoshida has a good example to show:

http://blog.garage-yoshida.net/archives/1926

 

 

Edited September 11, 2020 by TXSquirrel

[The_Hunster]

26 minutes ago, TXSquirrel said:

I believe the front piece of rail is still in production, but you may want to double check with the vendor.

Right side: 75110-05U30  Left side: 75111-05U30

And if anyone wonders why every R32 front sills are crushed and not R33/R34, Garage Yoshida has a good example to show:

http://blog.garage-yoshida.net/archives/1926

 

 

Thanks for that mate. Unfortunately I was looking into those replacement sections from nengun some time ago, but I became informed that r32 gtr/gts4 chassis rails are in fact slightly different from r32 gtst (gtr are wider to accomodate 4wd) and I've not been able to find anywhere that still manufactures gtst rails ?

[GTSBoy]

This is why body builders** go to TAFE, so they can learn to fabricate such sections. Just get someone sufficiently talented to make up replacements. Only take a few hours and a few hundred $$.

**Not muscle pumpers. Body builders, as in automotive body builders. A recognised trade usually employed in bus and truck factories and crash repair workshops.

[GTSBoy]

2 hours ago, TXSquirrel said:

I believe the front piece of rail is still in production, but you may want to double check with the vendor.

Right side: 75110-05U30  Left side: 75111-05U30

And if anyone wonders why every R32 front sills are crushed and not R33/R34, Garage Yoshida has a good example to show:

http://blog.garage-yoshida.net/archives/1926

 

 

Is that really relevant? That blog post is about the outer sills, not the rails closer to the trans tunnel. I think the R33 and R34 rails get equally damaged as R32 because people do the same stupid shit, picking them up with forklifts, putting jacks and jack stands under the rails (when they REALLY shouldn't), bashing them into speed bumps and driveway exits, etc etc.