Prospective buyer in Japan: need advice on HR34 RB25det

[GoHashiriya]

Hi all,

I'm a Z owner based in Japan and am in the market for Skyline. Today I went and looked at an HR34 with an RB25DET swap and manual conversion. The car is in brilliant shape, with little to no rust, however it's an HR34.

I'm a relatively abusive driver and attend the track frequently but my Z is getting a little tired and I think it's time to switch cars.

I want to know, what, other than the engine and transmission, will be weak on the HR34:

- I've read that these cars are non-hicas - fine - and will have other implications when it comes to suspension setups such as GTST coilovers will be incompatible; I will need to use ECR33 variants. And also, the car doesn't have a rear sway bar. Is this as simple as buying a sway bar and installing it, or am i going to be missing mounting points also?

- brakes: puny sliding caliper brakes were used on these. 

Is there anything else I'm missing here?

Am I going to have any other difficulty sourcing and/or installing parts?

Any help would be much appreciated.

Oh, and here's a pic of my Z: 

 

Edited August 29, 2020 by GoHashiriya

[Kinkstaah]

The Z is probably better.

However you won't run into any issues, the rear sway bar will bolt on (it has the holes, you need the brackets from a GTT).
Things are mostly compatible. Think R33 GTST brakes, R33 GTST Coilovers.

Your gearbox kinda depends on what gearbox got put in. Could be a R33 GTST gearbox too, pretty common!

I am basing this on the HR34 being the same as the ER34. There aren't any real HR34's in AU.

The Z is probably better.

[GoHashiriya]

Thanks for the input, the sway bar is is pretty crucial and it's good to know it mounts up, along with the brakes. I've found that the Z brembos will fit on a 33 with some minor modifications. This is probs a BBK option to explore.

You're probably right on the Z, I've got the suspension setup pretty good now but I'm looking at about 6,000USD in repairs. With Skyline prices on the crux of oblivion it's either now or never to live this Gran Turismo fantasy.   

[Kinkstaah]

How much do you think this RB25DET is going to need repairs?

Those fixes etc also do cost money.

I just feel that a well sorted Z33 with a rebuilt motor (cant think of what else would cost 6k USD)
Has: A rebuilt motor, not a 25 year old RB25det.
Also prime for some mild boost. A well sorted Z33 with some boost is just going to be better than a nearly stock HR34 ?

However the heart wants what the heart wants. This may also bite you in the butt, because noone really wants a HR34. They want at least a GTT.

[GoHashiriya]

6 hours ago, Kinkstaah said:

How much do you think this RB25DET is going to need repairs?

Those fixes etc also do cost money.

I just feel that a well sorted Z33 with a rebuilt motor (cant think of what else would cost 6k USD)
Has: A rebuilt motor, not a 25 year old RB25det.
Also prime for some mild boost. A well sorted Z33 with some boost is just going to be better than a nearly stock HR34 ?

However the heart wants what the heart wants. This may also bite you in the butt, because noone really wants a HR34. They want at least a GTT.

I think a budget of 5k USD for drivetrain issues over a few years of use is okay, provided the car is worth it. That said, I would absolutely hope to be able to push a year out of it without doing any major repairs - things like suspension bushes, vacuum hoses, ignition coils are expected to go. 

As for the Z; it needs a built/new engine, you're right. More specifically, it needs new rod bearings and oil control rings. I intended to get the engine replaced as that's around 3k USD (engine + labour) but unfortunately, the car has some moderate rust around the pinch welds and rear arches which is pushing the bill up. 

Your input is appreciated, and your remark about it being an HR34 is a concern. Another thing I need to clarify is, how rare are these things actually? particularly in a good format at a reasonable price: 12k USD. 

 

[Predator1]

Your Z looks abs sick man! Loving that stance.

[PranK]

Welcome to  !

[GTSBoy]

Buy HR34. Add some brakes, regardless of whatever else you do.

Buy VK56DE, CD009 box. Buy 1.5way LSD, 5 bolt driveshafts.

If you can't bring yourself to put such a massive engine in it, then do the same with LS3 and TR6060. Much more compact, much more room for adding turbos later.

[GoHashiriya]

11 hours ago, Predator1 said:

Your Z looks abs sick man! Loving that stance.

Cheers pal!

6 hours ago, PranK said:

Welcome to  !

Thanks, hopefully I'll actually be able to contribute soon.

5 hours ago, GTSBoy said:

Buy HR34. Add some brakes, regardless of whatever else you do.

Buy VK56DE, CD009 box. Buy 1.5way LSD, 5 bolt driveshafts.

If you can't bring yourself to put such a massive engine in it, then do the same with LS3 and TR6060. Much more compact, much more room for adding turbos later.

Brakes, diff - probs 1.5way w/5 bolt shafts - and suspension will be first on the agenda, plus roll/flare arches to fit my TEs. Maybe bushes depending on the state of the stockies and I would need to get my Recaros in it.

I would hope to not swap the engine within at least a few years; I hear some absolutely banging RBs around here.  

[Kinkstaah]

21 hours ago, GoHashiriya said:

I think a budget of 5k USD for drivetrain issues over a few years of use is okay, provided the car is worth it. That said, I would absolutely hope to be able to push a year out of it without doing any major repairs - things like suspension bushes, vacuum hoses, ignition coils are expected to go. 

As for the Z; it needs a built/new engine, you're right. More specifically, it needs new rod bearings and oil control rings. I intended to get the engine replaced as that's around 3k USD (engine + labour) but unfortunately, the car has some moderate rust around the pinch welds and rear arches which is pushing the bill up. 

Your input is appreciated, and your remark about it being an HR34 is a concern. Another thing I need to clarify is, how rare are these things actually? particularly in a good format at a reasonable price: 12k USD. 

 

Here's the thing, the RB25DET and VQ35 (or VQ37) have about the same level of reliable power before they need a forged rebuild.
You will also need an aftermarket turbo system on your VQ to get to that point.
You will also need a rebuild and aftermarket turbo system on a RB25DET to get to that point.
Never buy a skyline without expecting this as being needed soon, and budgeting the cash and the time to having it get done.

Any skyline you want has every component done.
They become good cars when every component is done.
They are good cars because these options are available.

Any decent skyline will eventually need:

Wheels
Tyres (larger than stock)
Full exhaust system
Aftermarket Radio/Audio
Aftermarket Seats
Aftermarket Turbo
Aftermarket ECU/Engine Management
Aftermarket Fuel system (not just injectors, you need pump (s)
Aftermarket Suspension (choose a coilover kit of your choice)
Aftermarket Bushes/Suspension arms/Camber, Toe, etc.
Aftermarket Brake Kit/BBK (especially in your case)
Aftermarket Diff
Aftermarket axles (in your case)
Aftermarket Clutch
Engine Rebuild
Aftermarket Radiator
Aftermarket Oil Cooling (if you want to actually lean on it)

You must factor the cost of this into your purchase price.
Then remember shit breaks.

You like them because you have seen the ones with all of the above done.
You've done some of this to your Z.

Rebuilt TT VQ is under much less stress than a RB25. You can fit much wider rubber on a Z. You already have the Z.
The heart wants what the heart wants, though.

Source: Done it all, many times, now have V8 in car because RB25DET is shit.

You are talking USD, buy a C5 Z06.

[GoHashiriya]

3 hours ago, Kinkstaah said:

Here's the thing, the RB25DET and VQ35 (or VQ37) have about the same level of reliable power before they need a forged rebuild.
You will also need an aftermarket turbo system on your VQ to get to that point.
You will also need a rebuild and aftermarket turbo system on a RB25DET to get to that point.
Never buy a skyline without expecting this as being needed soon, and budgeting the cash and the time to having it get done.

Any skyline you want has every component done.
They become good cars when every component is done.
They are good cars because these options are available.

Any decent skyline will eventually need:

Wheels
Tyres (larger than stock)
Full exhaust system
Aftermarket Radio/Audio
Aftermarket Seats
Aftermarket Turbo
Aftermarket ECU/Engine Management
Aftermarket Fuel system (not just injectors, you need pump (s)
Aftermarket Suspension (choose a coilover kit of your choice)
Aftermarket Bushes/Suspension arms/Camber, Toe, etc.
Aftermarket Brake Kit/BBK (especially in your case)
Aftermarket Diff
Aftermarket axles (in your case)
Aftermarket Clutch
Engine Rebuild
Aftermarket Radiator
Aftermarket Oil Cooling (if you want to actually lean on it)

You must factor the cost of this into your purchase price.
Then remember shit breaks.

You like them because you have seen the ones with all of the above done.
You've done some of this to your Z.

Rebuilt TT VQ is under much less stress than a RB25. You can fit much wider rubber on a Z. You already have the Z.
The heart wants what the heart wants, though.

Source: Done it all, many times, now have V8 in car because RB25DET is shit.

You are talking USD, buy a C5 Z06.

I appreciate your responses and much of my original question has been answered by either you or nissan.epc-data. 

It seems you have some reservations towards the RB25 setup, as do I towards the VQ - particularly the earlier ones. 

Really, the car just needs to be fun and reliable - I'm not after earth-stopping performance. It's not necessary for weekend track use.

As for USD, it's the global reserve currency and easier for people to convert mentally. A Z06 isn't a viable purchase in Japan. 

Just for some background: I'm from the UK and work in Automotive R&D (ADAS development) in Nagoya, Aichi.

 

[Kinkstaah]

It's not that the cars are bad. I really love mine and I don't think I'd have anything else. So many stories, fun times, and learning that don't happen with a car you don't have to build from the ground up.

RB25's are great, it's just best to be realistic when it comes to just how long and hard you can burn a candle at both ends.

90's cars were so project prone because the OEM gear was, well, not optimal. Nowadays OEM gear is a lot more optimal. Noone's putting coilovers on their M4 Competition (to the extent people would on say, a R32/33/34). My little megane hot hatch did a track day on OEM everything and it was the most fun trouble free day I've had.

If you want to have a car where you get the satisfaction of changing everything, making it yours, watching it 'grow' then they are a great car. If you want to buy a car for resale, no. If you want a car that is great out of the box and you don't want to become a semi-mechanic, again no.

If those things sound fun, then they are awesome cars and there's many many opportunities to spend a lot of cash tinkering and learning.

The other side of the coin is this - I always say a GTT is better than a GTR, because in the end everything gets upgraded anyway and the cars only perform at what they get upgraded to, and a GTR becomes a really, really expensive bodykit and heavy AWD system. In this frame of mind the HR34 is going to be just fine - But be prepared to constantly explain that "oh yeah, it is a HR34..." and people do judge on this even if they shouldn't. Try having a sedan and getting 2nd class service everywhere. This shit does happen and people do kind of react based on whats 'cool'

Tis just perspective. If the car fits the needs and you will think back and go "Yes, this is what I signed up for, I love this shit" then absolutely go for it.