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Amin206

My 550whp v-spec R33gtr Needs help

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1 hour ago, Amin206 said:

Well thanks to you guys I’m learning more about this expensive engine... 

Some people in this forum mentioned these spline gears need accurate oil pump adjustment after installation and without adjustment risk of breaking the gears are very high so as I’m looking for no trouble I think I’ll go with billet gears on factory collar. Anyone know if they need adjustment as well? Or just put the gears in there and bolt it back on?

also still not sure n1 or standard pump? If the standard has bigger gears then why pay more for n1? Is it proved that n1 has better oil flow?

 

 

1 hour ago, GTSBoy said:

You should always make sure that the oil pump and the crank are as concentric as possible, even with flat drive pumps.

 

 

Yeh as GTSBoy says, you always need to realign the oil pump. Especially on a built motor where the tunnel has been line bored/honed and the crank will have moved in relation to the doweled oil pump, you need to get that concentric. Conveniently, PRP have just released their oil pump alignment tool: 35 bucks, easy as. As with anything engine building related, I would still check it with a dial indicator, but it's very reliable and much quicker than trying to do it without.

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53 minutes ago, BK said:

Exactly. I see no need to run an N1 pump over a stock 33/34 GTR pump. I haven't seen concrete evidence of N1 flow / pressure specs. Best info I could dig up was 47 l/min at 6000rpm, 75psi, but that is still hearsay. The main reason for getting an N1 pump back in the day was they did have a harder gearset than stock (someone on here independently tested it), but if you're going to put billet gears in what the point ? I know @Sydneykid back in the day used to advise to use the stocker over an N1 and Darren from Lewis engines, who builds some pretty tuff and reliable gear, advises of using the stock housing with gears over an N1 pump. I've only used one once 11+ years ago and wouldn't bother again with them against a stock housing if gearsets are being replaced. I have no idea why people even bother with N1 oil pumps when everyone knows basically nothing about them.

 

 

I don't know whether the N1 pump cops a fair assessment or not. It is certainly only a small improvement over the vanilla pump. No-one should be claiming that it is a super strong or super capacity pump. I have no evidence to support this, but the general scuttlebutt was that the N1 pumps that were actually put into engines at Nissan, ie, into N1 26s and Neo 25s, were good. Not prone to failure, anyway, but that there might have been a batch towards the end of the 2000s that were not as good in some way. There were a number of people reporting N1 pump failures back then. One would assume that they had bought the pump, had it fail and therefore felt it worth telling everybody. I don't know if anyone would have complained too much if the original N1 pump out of a 10+ year old 25 or 26 had failed. Certainly, at that time, people building any 25 or 26 used to plan to put an N1 pump in if they weren't running on drug money.

Now, it may actually be the case that there was no dud batch of pumps at that time and all the failures were just the typical failures of people not setting them up right, suffering oil starvation or otherwise limiter bashing the engine/pump to death, as per your typical RB owner yob behaviour of the period. I certainly have no overestimation of the IQ of the majority of that crowd.

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1 hour ago, BK said:

Exactly. I see no need to run an N1 pump over a stock 33/34 GTR pump. I haven't seen concrete evidence of N1 flow / pressure specs. Best info I could dig up was 47 l/min at 6000rpm, 75psi, but that is still hearsay. The main reason for getting an N1 pump back in the day was they did have a harder gearset than stock (someone on here independently tested it), but if you're going to put billet gears in what the point ? I know @Sydneykid back in the day used to advise to use the stocker over an N1 and Darren from Lewis engines, who builds some pretty tuff and reliable gear, advises of using the stock housing with gears over an N1 pump. I've only used one once 11+ years ago and wouldn't bother again with them against a stock housing if gearsets are being replaced. I have no idea why people even bother with N1 oil pumps when everyone knows basically nothing about them.

 

 

 

Yeh I mean I'm no expert, but for me, there are more differences than just the hardness of the gearset. If you get two next each other, there are lots of differences. I think the main one is that the N1 gears have one less tooth, which means you have a higher internal volume. That coupled with the clearly larger internal channels in the pump housing = more flow. How much? Who knows, but they were designed by clever people. In return, that obviously means that the N1 pumps also have a thinner wall on the outer gear, hence why people think the standard gears are bigger or stronger than the N1 gears. End of the day, that thickness does matter, but I don't feel you should be breaking billet gears unless you are using them in an application that would have been better served by spline drive.

 

Those differences are enough for me to look at an N1 pump rather than a standard pump. Whether you go for that or a high flow aftermarket pump instead, that was a tougher choice for me.

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Yeah they are defintely a different pump next to each other, and there is a heap of physical differences between them in the gear, pressure relief, housing and back plate when comparing. The rating though is very ambiguous to say the least on the N1. People claim same flow but higher pressure, which is looking very possible.

But for that to be possible the N1 pump would actually have to be designed to flow less than standard, but then run a higher relief valve setting to bring it back to the standard 46 - 47 l/min flow rate. But if that is true, that means if you bumped up the pressure on a stocker pump to whatever an N1 pump is set to, the stocker would outflow the N1 both with identical pressures.

End of the day what I'm getting at is if you're fitting billet gears to an N1 pump, what real tangible improvement have you made by choosing an N1 pump vs a standard RB26 oil pump both running billet gears ? Possibly a tad higher oil pressure like 67 vs 75 psi but same flow if any info on them is correct.

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Alright my block is coming soon in 2 -3 days then I’m gonna start building the engine. 
Any recommendations for standard size main and rod bearings?

also one problem is driver side axle is stuck in the place I can’t get it out tried hammering it is not coming off maybe hammer is not big enough ?

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1 hour ago, Amin206 said:

Alright my block is coming soon in 2 -3 days then I’m gonna start building the engine. 
Any recommendations for standard size main and rod bearings?

also one problem is driver side axle is stuck in the place I can’t get it out tried hammering it is not coming off maybe hammer is not big enough ?

 

King or ACL for the bearings. 

 

Can't help with the axle, I'm sure someone else will have some tips!

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Pretty common for that end of the CV to be stuck. I assume the rest of the shaft was separated when the engine was removed? There is a circlip + 30 years of rust to keep it in place.

On the car, the best you can do is get a pair of pry bars behind it. Off the car, you should be able to get at everything to disassemble the retainer plate.

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Tap it in first, then a sharp tap to get it out. The little "run up" makes a big difference

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Still not able to remove the axle even with bigger hammer I have to try pry bars...

Also for the oil cooler I cant find the adapter that mounts directly to the block easily. Most common adapter is the one that mounts to the oil cooler itself ... 

do you guys recommend to remove the whole oil cooler/heater assembly and use the direct adapter?

i mean there’s not enough information about installing the direct adapter I remember there were some coolant line going in there too

anyway to just clean it and use it again?

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You really can't reuse the water heat exchanger part after a bearing failure, but you can with the filter block. I personally vote against direct adapters. Without the factory filter block you have no oil filter relief valve, which bypasses the filter in the event of a blockage, unless the aftermarket one you install has one (which most don't). That said, the Trust and HKS remote filter blocks actually do have an integrated thermostat and relief valve.

To get rid of the factory heat exchanger you can just block it off and continue the coolant lines shown in the second photo. In both our 32s we have done this with a Ross blanking plate, retaining the factory filter block. Note in picture it is showing a filter on the engine. This has since changed to an external Trust oil cooler and filter relocation kit, still mounted to the factory filter block and heat exchanger deleted.

 

IMG_20200702_182504_9.jpg

IMG_20200613_173814_7.jpg

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28 minutes ago, Amin206 said:

You mean the only part that can’t be used is this:

https://tfaspeed.com/products/nissan-skyline-r32-r33-r34-gtr-oil-cooler-cooler-assembly-21305-05u1a
if yes then just putting new one might be a better decision for a street car?

Yes this is the actual heat exchanger. Retaining it with a new one is totally fine. It's definitely more of a heat exchanger to heat up the coolant faster than an actual oil cooler to cool the oil despite the description. It is definitely worth retaining if in cold climates with a street car.

28 minutes ago, Amin206 said:

Also i see that Ross oil cooler blocking plate is only available on some Australian site

Yes Ross performance is Australian and make very good stuff. I think a few people within Australia will ship overseas that stock Ross parts like Hi Octane, Golebys or even Ross performance direct.

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couple of other options, rb25 stagea has an oil filter adapter that sits at a convenient angle, and has no oil cooler attached.

also, rb30 had the oil filter direct to the block, so you could look for those fittings. Makes it a bit hard to get to the filter unless you do a relocation as well

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I also asked a fellow Canadian who’s ruining 650whp with oem oil cooler for street use and sometimes track days he never had problem as long as temperature checked ...

anyway I finally ordered the oem for now...

now the only thing left is head gasket and as you guys know there aren’t many options available for 86mm std bore so what’s the best option? should I go with 86.5mm Tomei or 87mm

Also still not sure what thickness ...I have to measure previous head gasket thickness and as the head cleaned and lightly resurfaced by machine shop I think I’ll go with 0.1mm thicker gasket 

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If you have not built an engine before and you cannot afford to lose this one, I would really consider sending your pieces to a knowledgeable machinist and rebuilder to take care of this for you

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2 hours ago, cachorro said:

If you have not built an engine before and you cannot afford to lose this one, I would really consider sending your pieces to a knowledgeable machinist and rebuilder to take care of this for you

There’s no knowledgeable mechanic here in Toronto that I can trust and I believe I can put more time on making sure about everything and measuring compare to mechanics here... my engine previously built by a well known mechanic in Edmonton where I bought the car .I have receipts that shows previous owners paid over $35000 building this engine 2 times by well known mechanics can’t really trust their measurements and time they put on details.

.

.

also I measured the thickness of head gasket and it shows 1.3mm

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Better start measuring things then! Measuring the old headgasket and going 4 thou thicker isn't really the best way to go about things.

What was the compression ratio with the old headgasket, was it any good? Or did the previous builder just pick a 1.3mm headgasket out of a box and didnt calculate the static compression ratio? How much has been decked off the head and block; 10 thou, 20 thou, 30 thou? Is picking a 1.4mm headgasket going to result in a really sluggish CR, or worse, is it going to result in not enough deck height and you'll be tapping pistons? 

 

To do it properly, you really need to look at the engine as a whole package, measure everything, and work out what your clearances are and what compression ratio you're going to achieve. Forget about the old builds and what they used in that, you want to start working out what parts you are going to use in order to build the thing well.

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Well the problem is I’m using the old head and new block don’t know how much previous builder decked off the head and what they targeted for cr but I asked my machine shop and he said 2 thousands so it was very minimal and it was working properly with 1.3mm gasket . Also there were 87mm wiseco pistons  which I think they are 8.3:1 but the 86mm wiseco I ordered is 8.1:1 and if I’m gonna go with thicker gasket then it will be very low.do these after market companies calculate the cr with 1mm gasket?

at the end For measuring I should have a set of piston...

I can still change the pistons As they are back ordered ...

I see cp has 86mm pistons with 8.5:1 and 9:1 cr 

so if I get 9:1 and running 1.5 mm gasket to be safe with piston to valve clearances then cr will be around 8.6:1 if no material removed from head or block right ? 

another thing is I’m running 272 kelford cams and it gives 10mm lift 

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This is what I'm saying - you don't want unknowns. You need to measure everything. Get the head CC'd to find out how much volume you have so you can work things out properly. 

 

End of the day, there's a decent chance you can guess the headgasket thickness and it will be ok. There's a bit of a chance you guess wrong and it doesn't end well. But you have an opportunity to build the thing properly and nicely, so starting off guessing things isn't just a shame, it's a risk.

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Yeah I think that’s the best way to make sure about everything 

also I’m running borgwarner s300sx turbo

and looking to get 500-550whp

if I go with Cp 9:1 pistons wouldn’t be a little high cr?

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