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Matvei27

What are people doing for HCR32 suspension these days?

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Posted (edited)

Just looked into buying new suspension for mine. Here's what I came up with (I DO NOT LIVE IN AUSTRALIA!)

Anyone got any other ideas or recommendations for what I can get in JP or USA?

 

1. Bilstein B6: Are these discontinued? The GTS models only show on the Bilstein AU site.

2. Koni: Only available for GTR.

3. Ohlins: Only available for GTR

4. Nismo: Discontinued

5. KYB: super special for street is discontinued, they only have new SR which is not really meant for lowering springs.

5. Cusco: Street Zero and Street Zero A still available, but the spring rates only go as low as 8/6

6. Greddy: Only greddy street is, still available but also 8/6

7. Tein: Will make as special order for me anything they used to have, so I can get just springs (soft or medium) or coilovers (super street, flex, mono flex, super drift)

they also will let me customize, I was thinking maybe mono flex with softer springs, don't know if I can also change from pillow to rubber mount? I was also considering just ordering springs from them, but then I realized I might not be able to get dampers to suit them, judging by the above. 

8. HKS: Discontinued 

9. Apexi: n1 damper available but is 9/8 

10. Try my luck at yahoo auctions and rebuild used shocks?

Edited by Matvei27
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20 minutes ago, Matvei27 said:

1. Bilstein B6: Are these discontinued? The GTS models only show on the Bilstein AU site.

Still available. Straight from Germany too, I should think (given that you're in Europe, right?).

B8 better again, although possibly not for RWD 32s. Ask a Bilstein supplier what they can do for you.

20 minutes ago, Matvei27 said:

2. Koni: Only available for GTR.

Not as good as Bilstein anyway, despite adjustability.

21 minutes ago, Matvei27 said:

3. Ohlins: Only available for GTR

4. Nismo: Discontinued

No knowledge or care (for the Nismo, anyway). Ohlins would surely be possible, if built up to spec. It's just a question of money.

22 minutes ago, Matvei27 said:

5. KYB: super special for street is discontinued, they only have new SR which is not really meant for lowering springs.

These are shit anyway.

22 minutes ago, Matvei27 said:

5. Cusco: Street Zero and Street Zero A still available, but the spring rates only go as low as 8/6

6. Greddy: Only greddy street is, still available but also 8/6

Who cares?

f**k Jap coilovers to the moon.

23 minutes ago, Matvei27 said:

7. Tein: Will make as special order for me anything they used to have, so I can get just springs (soft or medium) or coilovers (super street, flex, mono flex, super drift)

As above, although they do seem to have a lot of fans here.

24 minutes ago, Matvei27 said:

8. HKS: Discontinued 

9. Apexi: n1 damper available but is 9/8 

See 5 & 6.

24 minutes ago, Matvei27 said:

10. Try my luck at yahoo auctions and rebuild used shocks?

To what end? Just going to end up with f**ked out versions of stuff I wouldn't want anyway.

 

The answer, here in AU, is MCA coilovers, or at least one or two other options. There are always good damper builders everywhere. 'Twere I you, I'd just talk directly to Bilstein here in Oz, or MCA or Shockworks, and just pay to get them shipped. A couple hundred bucks to ship them across the world is only ~10% of the cost of the gear.

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Posted (edited)

Bilstein Deutschland says b6 is for a maximum of 30mm lowering, so that would be 360/350.

For reference, nismo was -20/-15, and 5.3/3.9. Should I just get springs to match this?

Eibach or tein springs? I know tein would make that, have to check eibach.

Edited by Matvei27
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eibach make anything you need for springs, I run bilsteins with circlip grooves which hold the threaded sleeve which hold adjustable platforms. Then I just run eibach springs in the right rate.

what is your use, street or some sort of motorsport?

and I see you aren't in Oz, but it might have helped to say where you actually are (or just fill in your profile location)

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Posted (edited)

Mostly street. Located in USA but can buy anything from Japan also.

What is the rate and height on your eibachs? Since my main use is street is there any reason I shouldn't just buy springs to match the old s-tune ones?

Also I guess I should ask, what spring diameter etc do the Bilsteins take?

Edited by Matvei27
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sorry it's -1 outside and dark :) Plus it's a gtr not gtst and motorsport not street use.

I don't know what rate the nismo stuff was, but I am willing to back their engineering skills and knowledge over mine :)

 

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Posted (edited)

Nismo was -20/-15, and 5.3/3.9. It's higher than what sydneykid recommends but I don't see how I would get a 40mm drop with standard b6s since they say 30mm max.

As for the rates, I don't see anything wrong with them? They might be a bit soft for a trackday but I also have arc swaybars.

I do imagine those spring settings were designed to work with stock or nismo links, which is what I have. If I went lower I'd have to change to adjustables yeah?

 

Edited by Matvei27
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I have old teins on my hcr32, they are a bit meh, that's what there was in those days in the uk.

I have these on my bnr32 and they are pretty nice. https://www.meisterr.co.uk/products/meisterr-gt1-coilovers-for-nissan-skyline-r32-gts-t-hcr32-89-94/

The rates are a bit higher than you want at 8/6 but they will feel softer because of the digressive valving. I run 12kg/9kg on the bnr and they feel softer than the HSD Mono's on 8/6 that i had before.

The MeisterR Zeta's are half the price and probably fine for road use, I haven't tried them myself by they get decent reviews.

I spoke to the boss, Jerrick and he might help you on spring rates. 

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Just out of curiosity what teins did you have on your hcr?

And I'm assuming on both cars you needed adjustable links, at least for camber?

 

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Posted (edited)

there's actually a set of second hand ohlins DFV (JP) that I could get, not sure it's worth buying for $700 and sending to ohlins for a rebuild though, and I'd have to confirm with ohlins JP that they could still do it as the one for hcr32 is discontinued

Edited by Matvei27
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They are Type NA, the most "street" version basically, they have a circlip for the spring seat adjustment.

The camber gain from the drop in height was enough for a decent road setup, using the factory adjusters, it has aftermarket eccentric bushes in the "tension rods" which helps increase the caster on the front.

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Posted (edited)

How low did you have them that you were still able to use the factory links?

I'm already in contact with Tein in Japan, and I emailed Bilstein USA and AU to see about availability of those. Going to contact Ohlins as well to see if they can rebuild used shocks or make new ones to fit. 

Edited by Matvei27
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6 minutes ago, Matvei27 said:

there's actually a set of second hand ohlins DFV (JP) that I could get, not sure it's worth buying for $700 and sending to ohlins for a rebuild though, and I'd have to confirm with ohlins JP that they could still do it as the one for hcr32 is discontinued

In the uk the local ohlins reps used to insist they couldn't service the jp licensed versions, but that seemed to change a few years back and i have heard people have had them serviced here.

1 minute ago, Matvei27 said:

How low did you have them that you were still able to use the factory links?

There's question it was like 2003 they were fitted, they have four settings and are on the second lowest iirc. They actually came with a height gauge so you could check you had legal ground clearance for japanese law (at the time). They were a bit too low for that.

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Just popped out the garage, measured the car 25 5/8 inches front and a 25 1/2 rear from the centre of the wheel arch to the ground. Looking at it, it isnt low by modern standards. Two fingers between the tyre and the arch on the front and one finger on the rear.

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Posted (edited)

I actually don't care if they need to be serviced in Japan, I have a Japanese phone number, debit card, and address. BUT, since they're discontinued I'm not spending $700 on used shocks unless I know they can be rebuilt to factory specs...have to phone them. 

Are the Japanese Ohlins DFV any good, and are they better or worse than the Bilsteins with matching springs?

 

Edited by Matvei27
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For a road car B6 are great, bit stiffer than stock, can run a spring a bit lower than stock, I have them on another car. Sadly we can't get them for a gtst in the UK.

Imo DFVs are "good" in that real Ohlins are quality, if they are final jp DFVs that are actually supported by Ohlins. But they often are reviewed as being a bit firm, at least for UK roads. A lot depends on the local road conditions.

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1 minute ago, alexj said:

For a road car B6 are great, bit stiffer than stock, can run a spring a bit lower than stock, I have them on another car. Sadly we can't get them for a gtst in the UK.

Imo DFVs are "good" in that real Ohlins are quality, if they are final jp DFVs that are actually supported by Ohlins. But they often are reviewed as being a bit firm, at least for UK roads. A lot depends on the local road conditions.

Yeah it looks like we can't get them in the USA either. I'd have to get them from Bilstein AU and ship them here. Like I said I don't really care if Ohlins in the US will service them, but if Ohlins JP (Yamaha) won't then it's a non-starter.

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13 hours ago, Matvei27 said:

Bilstein Deutschland says b6 is for a maximum of 30mm lowering

Well, unless you're going to do something about the messed up LCA geometry that you get from going lower than ~350mm (ie, some sort of drop spindle) then the fact that the damper is unhappy at that point in its stroke is not the largest problem anyway.

If you want to go low low then you're really looking at full coilovers, or if going for OEM format dampers (Blisteins or Ohlins or whatever) then you're possibly looking to see what can be made out of a damper that's intended for another car.

As to your rate considerations......MCA like high spring rates and low ARB rates. SydneyKid (I have his revalved Bilsteins along with Kings springs that are essentially the same rates as SK used in his original work) likes lower rate springs and harder bars. Mine are in that 5.x & 3.x-4.x region (can't remember exactly) and I have 24mm adjustable bar at the front set on the hard end and a 22mm adjustable at the rear set......actually, I can't remember where I have it. The rear was certainly too stiff with 24mm rear adjustable set soft though. I think I probably have the 22mm set soft. My car is well set up for street. The Bilsteins have very firm damping rates and soak up a hell of a lot on their own. It seems counterintuitive, but the firmness of Bilsteins works well with lower rate springs. The ride is very absorbant. Compliant enough for reasonably rough road surfaces. But, there is no way that anything that I have under the car is good enough to work well on a track, especially with sticky tyres. Need to go up to the 12-14kg spring range at the front for that.

Adjustable arms are essential. If you do not have tough, trustworthy adjustable uppers at the front, there is no point doing anything else with your suspension anyway. Look to the GKTech FUCAs for this. Then you ned good droplinks for the bars, and at least adjustable rear uppers and tension rods, along with building and using a bumpsteer gauge to set them up properly.

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Oh, and front caster rods. Spherical joints only. No rubber or urethane. You'd be surprised how much these are needed to control the wheel motion (fore-aft). I have Teins in my car, but basically anything the same is going to do the job. GK-Tech possible again here.

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Which king springs did you have on your modified Bilsteins?

And you're saying even with a -20/-15 drop I really should use adjustable front and rear uppers and tension rods?

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