max whp r33 gts on stock turbo?

[r33skylinegts19]

hey guys, new to the board, new to skylines, but I was wondering what kind of gains the rb25det engines makes off bolt-ons and tuning.

I mean what kind of power can I expect form doing little things like, intake tube/pod/filter, decat pipe, full exhaust, FMIC (600x300x100), boost controller, ignition stuff, pulleys, and some kinda of piggy pack computer with lots of tuning.

I only ask because they're are so many different things people tell me, so I wanted to hear from the guys who know.

and I hear skylines have ceramic turbos? is it the turbo shaft thats ceramic or the turbines wheels or what? and what kind of boost are they maxed out on?

thanks in advance

[fresh]

from what i know, max boost (safe) nis about 12 psi, they don't tend to hold much boost ater that anyway, kinda run outta steam

max rwhp out of stock turbo 300 would probably be pushing fairly close to max, on 12 psi that is, i'm sure u could make more and blow up ur turbo in the process

[Guilt-Toy]

the boost levels depends on what year model your R33 is. The series 1 models had a steel compressor with a ceramic rear wheel where the series 2 (96 models and above i believe) have a plastic compressor wheel with a ceramic rear wheel - makes spool up much more interestingly faster but will give you a lower max boost level.

The series 2 turbo can handle 12PSI where the series 1 turbo can handle a MAX of 1 bar - keep in mind that every intercooler / pipe setup has different levels of boost drop so if you are running 14psi on your boost gauge (plenum) your turbo could be pushing 18psi which takes a series 1 turbo into dangerous levels.

Just because your running your turbo at higher then the recomended limits it does not mean you WILL blow it up. You may be able to run your Series 1 turbo at 18psi for years without noticing any issues IF you dont let it get hot. if your giving it a few highway runs at higher boost and a drag race here and there then as long as the turbo is not experiencing high temp levels then you wont lose your rear ceramic wheel because its not getting into the dangerous temp levels - if you get what i mean.

Some people get up to 200rwkw out of stock turbo and others have been known to get up to 210rwkw + - It depends on how aggresive the tune is and how much of a hard time the driver is giving the turbo when it comes to guessing the reliability.

[Sydneykid]

First let me say that I personally have seen no difference in the power output of the plastic compressor wheel versus the steel. The R34 GTT made 221 rwkw at 13 psi using the standard turbo with the plastic compressor wheel (it had the usual bolt ons, FMIC, split dump, hi flow cat, panel filter, Power FC with Boost Control Kit and an adj exhaust camshaft pulley). That turbo lasted 5 laps at 11 psi until the ceramic in the cat disease killed it. The plastic compressor wheel and the steel shaft were both still in perfect condition by the way. I have seen this happen to multiple RB25 turbos, running ~12psi. Not all on the track, one let go going up a long hill (Mooney Mooney for those in NSW) at 13 psi in 3rd and 4th gear. It had 4 people and some luggage and the driver was "fair up it" (his words). I have also seen one that failed on a long, fast trip (Sydney/Sunshine Coast).

So, I NEVER use more than 10 psi with the standard RB25 (all models) turbo.

I haven't been able to get 200rwkw out of an RB25 (R33 S1, S2 or R34) using the standard turbo and piggy back controllers. I always need to upgrade the ECU, with a Power FC being the current/long time preference. The reality is I have to compromise when using the standard ecu. The air flow bender might get the A/F ratios pretty close but then ignition timing is too advanced. I can adjust (retard) the static igntion timing, but then the engine feels dead in the commonly used rpm range. So I advance the static timing a bit and back off the bending to get the dynamic ignition timing better. Then the A/F ratios are not so good. As I said it's a compromise, go round in circles, that seems to limit me to a bit less than 200 rwkw. Ditch the standard ecu, the piggy backs and use a Power FC and all that compromising is gone.

Hope that is of some help:cheers:

[BOOSTD]

"no difference in power output between steel and plastic compressor wheels"

What about spoolup? Is there much difference...an rpm figure would be nice

[locosam]

Thanks Sydneykid,

Youve inavertantly helped me out while answering some other question.

fmic is going on within the next few weeks and i was thinking that after that goes on, itll need a bit of tuning, and then ill probably just keep the car as it is until i sell it.

So for a final mod, i was wondering if i should go piggy back or just powerfc.

I knew powerfc was better but didnt know if its 2 times better than the safc. (price + tuning)

Your description of a piggyback with stock ecu really cleared a few things up for me.

I still am a bit undecided, but i think im leaning towards a powerfc

[Busky2k]

Go the powerFC. Considering the prices of the PowerFC has dropped considerbaly, there is no reason not to consider one... Back in the day when they were expensive, the SAFC was (and still is in some cases) a very good 'go between'.

[cameron]

BOOSTD,

I've seen a R34 GTT turbo on a R33 GTST and it went very well but it came on boost late 4500 is when it kick in hard but on the dyno you could see the response down lower which was not felt seat to pants.

Not sure if its got anything to do with it not being a NEO engine but it was a very good turbo and it never had the exhaust wheel in cat disease.

From being in 2 different car's i've noticed that the GT-T turbo stucks a lot harder than the gtst and didn't seem to die up top as much towards redline. You'd think that because the GTT turbo has nylon compressor wheel it is lighter which give faster spooling ?

Jun

[Robo's]

Only using a SAFC i am one of the only guys to run a 12 second quarter in street trim.

If you want cheap, SAFC is the way to go, Power FC if you want perfection.

[PTR33]

think of it like this...

rwkw = $$$$ more of the latter will give you more of the former.

stock rb25 with stock turbo, fit a FMIC get rid of 2 stage boost solenoid and up boost to 10 PSI. as SK says, 12 PSI is asking for your ceramic turbine to pay a visit to cat land.

this will give you about 160-170 rwkw all day. Throw another couple of grand at it for a PowerFC (including tuning) and you will get somewhere around 200.

To go much better than this wou start to drop BIG money on turbo, internals, cams, clutch, LSD, etc etc. You could import a R32 with mods ex Japan for the cost of going to the "next level"

This is my personal experience, I would be up for about ten grand to step my car up to the next level but I bought a 45000km '89 VR4 which will end up costing about $9k (if it ever gets on a boat).

Realistically even 170rwkw makes for a pretty fast R33 which is nice and comfy to drive on the street but with decent tires will pull a high 13 sec quarter. and there is not a whole lot on the road that can do that.

[mattysaidso]

Only using a SAFC i am one of the only guys to run a 12 second quarter in street trim.  

If you want cheap, SAFC is the way to go, Power FC if you want perfection.

mate that is some impressive figures! what other mods if any, do you have? other than the ones you have listed in you signature. do you stil use the std fuel system?

cheers mate!

[Robo's]

mate that is some impressive figures! what other mods if any, do you have? other than the ones you have listed in you signature. do you stil use the std fuel system?

cheers mate!

Custom cold air box and cam gears. I found 13psi didnt give a heap more peak power but the mid range torque was a sizeable increase. I ran 13psi for at least a year with the stock turbo and FMIC. How many people with R33's do 5 laps of thrashing around a racetrack? Not many!!! Took the turbo off and is still in great condition.

[benm]

...and there is not a whole lot on the road that can do that.

I'd have to say that a year or so ago this would have been true however now if your car isn't in the 12sec bracket it's just going nowhere. Plenty of WRX, S15, VL, Commodore, Falcon and even FWD buzz boxes in the low to mid 13's these days.

[4door_Sleeper]

 I ran 13psi for at least a year with the stock turbo and FMIC.  ..........  Took the turbo off and is still in great condition.

I too ran a SAFE??? 13 psi on my stock turbo (for a few years now) but recently the impeller chipped and now I am looking at a new turbo. I dont think you could tell by looking at the turbo that its good ar bad (with regards to stress cracks) you can only get an idea of the bearings/seals condition.

Realistically even 170rwkw makes for a pretty fast R33 which is nice and comfy to drive on the street but with decent tires will pull a high 13 sec quarter.

I would have expected low 13's not high 13's. Read the syickt thread on getting low 13's with a relativly stock 33.

[Col-GTSX]

There still seems to be alot of different opinions in relation to series 1 vs series 2 turbos....

As i have stated before, my new S2 has both steel wheels and BB. When i put it in for high flowing i was told this was quite common on the ones done before to be steel. Maby Nissan put out a years worth with steel wheels, or maby boy racers in japan had them all changed. I was told tho, with the steelies that they loose a bit of puff down low, but pull harder than a plastic or ceramic wheel. Steelies are good to about 13/14psi safe with intercooler and rest of the mods to match. Could push 16psi in the right hands, with some extra work. ie. High flowing, Power FC tuned to perfection, living in sub zero temp's could help also....

[mattysaidso]

Custom cold air box and cam gears.  I found 13psi didnt give a heap more peak power but the mid range torque was a sizeable increase.  I ran 13psi for at least a year with the stock turbo and FMIC.  How many people with R33's do 5 laps of thrashing around a racetrack?  Not many!!!  Took the turbo off and is still in great condition.

would you be able to email me some pics of you air box design? as i will be changing my r33 back to an airbox in the near future.

[email protected]

cheers mate!

[tridentt150v]

There still seems to be alot of different opinions in relation to series 1 vs series 2 turbos....

As i have stated before, my new S2 has both steel wheels and BB. When i put it in for high flowing i was told this was quite common on the ones done before to be steel. Maby Nissan put out a years worth with steel wheels, or maby boy racers in japan had them all changed. I was told tho, with the steelies that they loose a bit of puff down low, but pull harder than a plastic or ceramic wheel. Steelies are good to about 13/14psi safe with intercooler and rest of the mods to match. Could push 16psi in the right hands, with some extra work. ie. High flowing, Power FC tuned to perfection, living in sub zero temp's could help also....

My '98 R33 was steel front and back and ball bearing as well..............still std size [i've had it hiflowed since]. Been some conjecture whether this was std from nissan, they did some funny things with the 40th Anniversary models. But if it was an upgrade by a previous owner, why would you 'upgrade' a std turbo from ceramic to steel and not hiflow it at the same time?????? doesn't make sense.

I also ran 0.75/1.2 bar = 10/16 psi [HKS III evc] no probs.

[Robo's]

would you be able to email me some pics of you air box design? as i will be changing my r33 back to an airbox in the near future.

[email protected]

cheers mate!

There was a group Buy about these custom air box, basically its got a sidewall and lid which fits very nicely. Then i installed a 100mm drainwater piping from underneath to get cold air.

BTW, stock injectors and fuel system.

[Sydneykid]

How many people with R33's do 5 laps of thrashing around a racetrack?  Not many!!!

Funny thing, that's what the R33 GTST owner, the one that dropped his ceramic in the cat on the way up Mooney Mooney, said. I told him not to go over 10 psi but he said "my car isn't going on any race track". He was man enough to ring up and tell me what happened, his closing words were "you were right".

Roll the dice, it's your money

[Robo's]

Funny thing, that's what the R33 GTST owner, the one that dropped his ceramic in the cat on the way up Mooney Mooney, said.  I told him not to go over 10 psi but he said "my car isn't going on any race track".  He was man enough to ring up and tell me what happened, his closing words were "you were right".

Roll the dice, it's your money

Well i guess the dice is falling right side up for me. If he wants to track race, get him to buy a new turbo, but for street trim, stocky has been fine by me.