Stagea Turbo Upgrade

[Tangles]

Hiya all,

Im in the market to do some turbo upgrade work, but there is just so much information around the place (ie on these forums), and Im a bit lost on what way I should be going.

First of all, Im a 'cheapie', so if I can find something cheaper than usual (ie, read Ebay or the like!!) I usually buy it. Thats how I've been able to upgrade my CBR900RR Fireblade (spent $8k, but saved $4k).

Now, Im looking to get my automatic Stagea RB25DET up from 141kw at the 4 wheels, to around 180kw plus. It'll be run via an Apexi SAFC-II, with full 3inch exhaust, a Z32 AFM, larger fuel pump, and either bigger injectors if possible or more pressure thru the fuel rail, as per SK's suggestion.

What should I be doing turbo-wise? I wouldnt mind buying a brand new Garrett turbo in lieu of hi-flowing my standard turbo, but I really arnt too sure on the following: what models bolt straight on with no modifications to flanges or housings, what models have the best response, what models have the most lag, what models would get me that extra 40 - 50 four wheel KW, etc etc.

Currently the standard Stagea turbo spools up from around 2400rpm and I'd like to keep as close to that as possible - I have no real need to be rpm'ing thru the redline.

To anyone reading this - do you have some suggestions, ie turbo types and model numbers, that might do the trick (not just info for me, but for all of you Stagea owners out there).

Cheers to you all, and you are welcome to say 'search the site' I got no probs with that, but really want to pick your brains and see what YOU think.

And a big thank you to you for reading this.....

Brendan

[Sydneykid]

I am using a GCG ball bearing high flow of an RB25DET turbo for my power target of 200 4wkw. Should do it easily at around 1 bar.

I don't want it hitting full boost at 2,400 rpm though. That's too low an RPM and the standard turbo hits boost on the freeway with just a slight squeeze of the throttle, that unlocks the torque converter and it gazzles gas. Around 2,600-2,700 rpm will be just fine, that way I can hold a steady 110kph without hiiting 0.5 bar every time I tickle the throttle.

cheers

[Tangles]

Thanks SK,

Im keeping the GCG in mind, but they are quite expensive arnt they?

Tell you the truth, I'd like to buy something off ebay; you can find new Garrett turbos there quite often, and they dont break the bank (ie under a grand).

Ive read the thread about RB25 dyno results, and there are a few turbos mentioned, but not too much info about how these upgraded snail's come on boost, etc etc.

PPL's, please feel free to add your thoughts to this thread (keeping in mind the Stagea is a heavy wagon)

Brendan B)

[Jay95R33]

I think the GCG would be best suited, but apart from that then maybe the 2830 or 2835 size. The 30 may run out of puff but you'd have really strong mid range.

I'd keep away from the no name turbo's. Almost all would be sleeve bearings and you really don't kow what your getting. Stick with a true Garrett/GCG I say.

J

[Tangles]

Thankx Jay95R33,

Good info mate, cheers for that.

On that point, what do people know about the XS power T03 Turbo charger (Rated at 325 HP), with .42 A/R Compressor, .48 A/R Turbine, and bush bearings (not ball bearings).

No good for an RB25DET?

Edited September 2, 2005 by bwilkeson

[Sydneykid]

Thankx Jay95R33,

Good info mate, cheers for that.

On that point, what do people know about the XS power T03 Turbo charger (Rated at 325 HP), with .42 A/R Compressor, .48 A/R Turbine, and bush bearings (not ball bearings).

No good for an RB25DET?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

If it doesn't have balls, it doesn't go any where near one of my engines.

cheers

[Tangles]

If it doesn't have balls, it doesn't go any where near one of my engines.

cheers 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Sounds good!!

Yay, done a little more research into the turbo query.... just wondering why I should send in my standard turbo to GCG to have the hiflow work done for $1950, when Nengun currently sell HKS 2835 pro s for ~$2500...

Going to have to have a chat to our local Adelaide turbo shop (A.T.S.) and make a plan of attack with them, I guess. As it is I wont be doing this work for a while yet, but just doing the research part of the build-up at the moment.

Brendan

[AlexCim]

The turbines that i would consider are

HKS 2835

Trust T518Z (or 517z)

HKS GTRS

Garret GT35R

[Tangles]

The turbines that i would consider are

HKS 2835

Trust T518Z  (or 517z)

HKS GTRS

Garret GT35R

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Thanks AC,

I'll see what I can find out about these brands youve mentioned.

Maybe a HKS from Nengun might be the way to go, just got to save up that elusive 2k plus customs fee!

Would rather a brand newwy for that sort of money, rather than hiflowing the standard old turbo.

BWilkeson B)

[Sydneykid]

Sounds good!!

Yay, done a little more research into the turbo query.... just wondering why I should send in my standard turbo to GCG to have the hiflow work done for $1950, when Nengun currently sell HKS 2835 pro s for ~$2500...

Brendan

Because;

1. The standard turbo (after being high flowed) bolts straight back on. No mods required, no extra nuts and bolts, no new fittings, no fiddling with water and oil connections, no new inlet piping etc etc.

2. It is never going to be defected for having the standard turbo on it.

3. You won't get the same response out of a 2835 pros as you will out of a GCG Ball Bearing high flow

4. The delivered price is $2,593.77 plus Import Duty 10% and GST 10% total = $3,138. Sometimes you don't get caught and sometimes you do.

cheers

Edited September 5, 2005 by Sydneykid

[Tangles]

Because;

1. The standard turbo (after being high flowed) bolts straight back on.  No mods required, no extra nuts and bolts, no new fittings, no fiddling with water and oil connections, no new inlet piping etc etc.

2. It is never going to defected for having the standard turbo on it.

3. You won't get the same response out of a 2835 pros as you will out of a GCG Ball Bearing high flow

4. The delivered price is $2,593.77 plus Import Duty 10% and GST 10% total = $3,138.  Sometimes you don't get caught and sometimes you do.

cheers 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Yup, was keeping that import duty figure in the back of my mind - as you say sometimes you get done for it, other times you dont. (example, my $2000 Keihin flatslide carburettors for the Fireblade came thru no worries no charges, my Galfer wave rotors - which I fitted up on Friday night; bloody awesome! - came thru no worries no charges, but got slugged $80 for a $251 steering damper!!)

So, the HKS 2835 is more laggy than a hiflow? Intresting..... Considering GCG have got back to me and said 220kw is easily acheiveable with their hiflow with both ends ball bearing. Hmm.....

Yah, I was going to keep the standard turbo (if I end up going aftermarket) just in case of the defect situation down here in Adelaide - Im keeping pretty much everything I replace on the Stagea.

Thanks for your information SK, AC and Jay.

Out of curiosity, the 2835 HKS, comes with 0.68 or 0.87 T3 flange, and either 80mm or 100mm... what would work best, keeping in mind I want best response and not top end power (ie under SK's stated 200 4wheek kw mark).

Cheers all,

Brendan

[Tangles]

Hi all (again!!)

Quick question, maybe you might be able to help SK seeing we've mentioned the larger injectors etc in threads before.

My power output that Id like from the Stagea is fairly mild, say aroun 180 - 200 kw at the four wheels.

My injectors are currently at 76% duty cycle with 141.3kw at the treads.... would I be better off buying a Sard rising rate fuel pressure regulator, rather than bigger 550cc injectors?

Im thinking Id probably be better off doing the fuel regulator, and a Bosch 040 fuel pump. Ive already got myself a Z32 Air Flow Meter, and would like to get the fueling sorted out before I do some turbo work; most likely hiflow, due to $$ constraints - ie Id rather put $2k into the Stagea and $1k into the Fireblade (as I need a new rear suspension unit, either Ohlins or HyperPro), rather than $3k soley onto the Stagea

How does that sound to you fellow Stagea & RB25DET owners? I value your opinions! Fact is I know f-all about turbo cars.

Brendan

[Sydneykid]

Hi all (again!!) 

Quick question, maybe you might be able to help SK seeing we've mentioned the larger injectors etc in threads before.

My power output that Id like from the Stagea is fairly mild, say aroun 180 - 200 kw at the four wheels.

My injectors are currently at 76% duty cycle with 141.3kw at the treads.... would I be better off buying a Sard rising rate fuel pressure regulator, rather than bigger 550cc injectors?

Im thinking Id probably be better off doing the fuel regulator, and a Bosch 040 fuel pump. Ive already got myself a Z32 Air Flow Meter, and would like to get the fueling sorted out before I do some turbo work; most likely hiflow, due to $$ constraints - ie Id rather put $2k into the Stagea and $1k into the Fireblade (as I need a new rear suspension unit, either Ohlins or HyperPro), rather than $3k soley onto the Stagea

How does that sound to you fellow Stagea & RB25DET owners? I value your opinions! Fact is I know f-all about turbo cars.

Brendan 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Hi Brendan, you can get a bolt on Nismo adjustable fuel pressure regulator from Nengun for ~$150. Just unbolt the standard (non adjustable) FPR and replace it with the Nismo adjustable FPR.

Note that this is a linear rate (not rising rate) FPR, ie; it maintains the same (but adjustable) fuel pressure above boost, whereas rising rate means the pressure above boost increases. I am not a fan of rising rate FPR's, they make tuning with piggy backs very difficult. They are OK for full replacement ECUs' or on cars that weren't turbocharged originally.

I will repeat my usual word of warning, I don't like increasing the fuel pressure too much above standard without upgrading the fuel hoses and clamps. The standard hoses and clamps are designed for a base pressure of 36-38 psi, plus boost of 6 psi, making 42-44 psi in total. Increase the fuel pressure to say 45 psi then add 15 psi of boost and you have 60 psi in the fuel hoses. That's a big (~40%) increase in the load on the hoses and clamps.

cheers

[Tangles]

Hi Brendan, you can get a bolt on Nismo adjustable fuel pressure regulator from Nengun for ~$150.  Just unbolt the standard (non adjustable) FPR and replace it with the Nismo adjustable FPR.

Note that this is a linear rate (not rising rate) FPR, ie; it maintains the same (but adjustable) fuel  pressure above boost, whereas rising rate means the pressure above boost increases.  I am not a fan of rising rate FPR's, they make tuning with piggy backs very difficult. They are OK for full replacement ECUs' or on cars that weren't turbocharged originally.

I will repeat my usual word of warning, I don't like increasing the fuel pressure too much above standard without upgrading the fuel hoses and clamps.  The standard hoses and clamps are designed for a base pressure of 36-38 psi, plus boost of 6 psi, making 42-44 psi in total.  Increase the fuel pressure to say 45 psi then add 15 psi of boost and you have 60 psi in the fuel hoses.  That's a big (~40%) increase in the load on the hoses and clamps.

cheers 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Thanks SK for the words of advice (and warning!!)

Thats excellent information, again my thanks to you.

So, either I beef up the injectors and add an 040 Bosch fuel pump, or I grab a standard Nismo fuel regulator and beef up all the fuel lines and still add the bigger fuel pump.

How much usually would you spend on upgrading the fuel lines? Isnt this what youve got planned for your Stagea in lieu of the larger cc injectors, or did I read your previous posts about the injectors incorrectly...?

Im hoping if I throw my mechanics (Graham West Workshops) a bosch 040 fuel pump, a Z32 AFM, and the Nismo FPR they'd be able to install better hoses and clamps, and tune it safely.

Just want to do the fueling before I do the turbo work, thast all. And then the brakes, and then the suspension, plus the stereo, etc etc.

Cheers mate, and good on ya for the wealth of information you have provided me (and others) with.

Brendan Wilkeson

[Sydneykid]

Thanks SK for the words of advice (and warning!!)

Thats excellent information, again my thanks to you.

So, either I beef up the injectors and add an 040 Bosch fuel pump, or I grab a standard Nismo fuel regulator and beef up all the fuel lines and still add the bigger fuel pump.

How much usually would you spend on upgrading the fuel lines? Isnt this what youve got planned for your Stagea in lieu of the larger cc injectors, or did I read your previous posts about the injectors incorrectly...?

Im hoping if I throw my mechanics (Graham West Workshops) a bosch 040 fuel pump, a Z32 AFM, and the Nismo FPR they'd be able to install better hoses and clamps, and tune it safely.

Just want to do the fueling before I do the turbo work, thast all. And then the brakes, and then the suspension, plus the stereo, etc etc.

Cheers mate, and good on ya for the wealth of information you have provided me (and others) with.

Brendan Wilkeson

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

The usual problem with hoses is age related decay, so regardless, spend $25 and buy some new high pressure fuel hose. I use 2 X stainless steel clamps (they are ~$3 each) on each end of the hose;

1. from the pump to the steel fuel line in the boot.

2. from the steel fuel line to the fuel filter (under the plenum)

3. from the fuel filter to the steel fuel line around the plenum

4. from the stell fuel ine on the plenum to the fuel rail.

About $100 covers the high pressure fuel hose and enough clamps (I usually buy a pack of 20). GWW should be able to handle the installation pretty easily.

I am hoping not to have to do any of this to our Stagea ie; standard fuel pump, standard fuel lines, standard FPR and standard injectors. I have seen just over 200 rwkw from a few R33GTST's will similar mods. It will be interesting to see how the Stagea goes against this history.

I did our Stagea in exactly the reverse order, stereo, suspension, brakes and now I am up to mechanical engine related mods. Although I did do some electronics (IEBC, DFA & SITC) in the middle, but that was mainly because I had some interstate work to do and the fuel economy was killing me.

cheers

[AMS]

Hey Guys,

Great thread just to start off with

I have just recently heard about a few people using the Turbo's from XR6's on RB25's? Just wondering whether they would be any good for sround 300 atw's?

Arent they a 600hp unit?

Anyone that could shed some light on this for me, would be greatly appreciated.

[Sydneykid]

Hey Guys,

Great thread just to start off with

I have just recently heard about a few people using the Turbo's from XR6's on RB25's? Just wondering whether they would be any good for sround 300 atw's?

Arent they a 600hp unit?

Anyone that could shed some light on this for me, would be greatly appreciated.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

They are a bitch to fit, nothing lines up and the turbine is a bit big for a 2.5 litre.

cheers

[Tangles]

The usual problem with hoses is age related decay, so regardless, spend $25 and buy some new high pressure fuel hose.  I use 2 X stainless steel clamps (they are ~$3 each) on each end of the hose;

1. from the pump to the steel fuel line in the boot.

2. from the steel fuel line to the fuel filter (under the plenum)

3. from the fuel filter to the steel fuel line around the plenum

4. from the stell fuel ine on the plenum to the fuel rail.

About $100 covers the high pressure fuel hose and enough clamps (I usually buy a pack of 20).  GWW should be able to handle the installation pretty easily.

I am hoping not to have to do any of this to our Stagea ie; standard fuel pump, standard fuel lines, standard FPR and standard injectors.  I have seen just over 200 rwkw from a few R33GTST's will similar mods.  It will be interesting  to see how the Stagea goes against this history.

I did our Stagea in exactly the reverse order, stereo, suspension, brakes and now I am up to mechanical engine related mods.   Although I did do some electronics (IEBC, DFA & SITC) in the middle, but that was mainly because I had some interstate work to do and the fuel economy was killing me.

cheers 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

WOW! Fantastic SK. Thanks heaps.

Answers the problems I reckon; go the new high pressure fuel line hoses / clamps / new bosch 040 fuel pump / Nismo adjustable FPR; all up around $500 cost plus some installation time. Then the Stag will be ready for the better turbo.

Thanks heaps for that info SK. Stuff of legends...........

Yah, I could imagine you'd do the suspension first (Ive read your suspn threads; if I recall correctly I read a statment by you SK that you've written the odd suspn column for magazines?).

Ive only had the Stagea for 7 weeks now, so its still fresh pretty much. Had to do the service and timing belt, so a few mild performance mods were the first thing to get under my belt.

Next will be front DBA rotors, and I'll have the afm and fuel lines / pump installed and the SAFC retuned, and start saving big bickies for the turbo and suspension components. Plus Im going to add an oil cooler for the auto and a shift kit, both from MV Automatics here in SA.

Problem is, Im not quite finished modifying the Fireblade, only a couple more parts to go (honestly, wife, honestly!! :lol: ). Need to spend some big bickies on the rear suspension unit, and maybe a Dyna 2000 ignition module with a dyno tune, to see if I can improve on the 150 rear wheel HP.

So, money going out the door still - just dont tell the wife!!

Cheers to you all, hope this thread is of some help to other Stagea owners.

Brendan

Edited September 5, 2005 by bwilkeson

[AMS]

Thanks SK.

Now, in regards to the CGC High Flow, what is the MAX they are good for atw's? Is it possible to get 250-300atw's?

Cheers,

Chris

[Sydneykid]

Yah, I could imagine you'd do the suspension first

Oh no, I actually did the stereo first.

cheers