jimbojones132
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Posts posted by jimbojones132
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Got some more info re: VIPEC layour so my current understanding is:
1) 4D values are 'theoretical': lay them down and move on
2) AFR table is also theoretical but you populate from 4D and then 'tweak it' ; in case you see cells that are not to your liking. e.g. lean out a section for cruising, check AFR @ high RPM/boost area and make sure you have enough fuel to control detonation.
3) then you dyno/WB and fill Fuel table cells with autotune (it sets the correct value to hit the AFR you want)
I know this is over-simplified but just reasoning-out what I actually need to see: a 4D table and AFR table still seem valid to me. I got an opinion from another tuner that, when he saw my 4D table, figured it was at least 10% (and as high as 20%) too rich. Of course, they wouldn't share their 4D table with me...
Did drop a note to Vipec themselves...other than that, I guess it may go up on eBay.
Sorry to say but there are very few guys who would help you out in this department and i understand where you are coming from, just wanting to see another table just for reference purposes and not an actual tune.....not sure how the software works?
Not to mention vipec is "fairly" new to skylines so a lot less ppl have experience with them unlike the pfc wich every Tom Dick and Harry has and yet it is still very hard to get decent tuning info out of ppl here
Good luck man
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Map sensor feed is as follow: from front balance tube output, there is a short line to a 'T, then one side runs to Fuel Pressure Reg and other down engine bay and in to VIPEC plug/play under dash using on-board MAP sensor. Was told this was acceptable config but I would think that a vacuum line that long (down engine, across firewall and in to cabin) would be, to the least , have lag in it plus perhaps a bit of 'stretch' as I'm using rubber vacuum line.
I have bought a (HALTECH) GM 3bar MAP which I could mount on the firewall and then feed that analog signal to the VIPEC; would most likely change the boost feed over to the rear balance tube outlet and 'T' it with the OEM boost box. That run would be 1/3 the distance and therefore less lag/stretch in the signal....but I just don't know if it will make much of a difference. I've seen so many opinions re: 'T' or not to 'T' the boost signal connection that I can't tell what the 'truth' is; frankly, I think if you have to 'T', that making the line to the source as short as possible is the right thing to do.
Going to a different tuner really isn't much of an option here; there are only 2 VIPEC dealers in Canada and the other one is across the country (Canada is a bit bigger than Australia); there are a few other tuners here but 1) most of them suck 2) they want to sell you THEIR ECU 3) if they tune your ECU, they are experimenting and try to charge you for every hour they spend trying to figure it out. Essentially, by the time they are done, the cost of the tune is about the cost of their ECU and they hand the car back saying 'no promises...you should have bought our ECU'. Very, very few options here.
re: Tune vs ECU/hooked up. there isn't much in the way to hooking up a plug/play other than what I already mentioned....theory #1 seems to be the most plausible at the moment. However, since no one has actually offered to share any detailed information re: ECU AFR and 4D table, I've got nothing to compare my tune config against and I'm right back at where I started: a bunch of speculation and no direction.
Have a look at this website for injectors Injector Dynamics
I personally haven't run them yet but know of people running their 1000's and 2000's without any issue. There is a lot of info on the site as well as a distributor in Canada.
As the guys keep saying on here, tuning is tuning. It doesn't matter what car, what engine, what ecu. Once a tuner learns the interface for the software they are using to tune the ecu, he should know how to tune the car using the fuel map and timing to get the car to do what he wants.
If not find another tuner that knows what tuning is about or maybe pay to get someone to dial in remotely to do a tune over the internet. It has been done before.
The other info you might want to supply is where/how you have the map sensor connected.
Have you tried the ViPec forums? They are full of information.
ViPec have developed the plug and play to work with an RB26 otherwise they wouldn't market it as such.
It is one of 2 things: 1) your tuner/ViPec dealer or 2) The ViPec ECU and the way you have it hooked up.
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I need something a bit more useful that 'get rid of those shit bricks'
1) I have no way to test them, as would be the same limitation for most people.
2) I assume your statement is based on some experience; I've seen MANY people running them and seem happy with them...and very few reports of problems....how did you come to that conclusion?
3) Even if the latency IS 2.2ms, why not adjust the VIPEC for such? Simply punch in the lag time and it figures out how much sooner/later it needs to actuate the injectors, no matter what their latency is?
4) I assume you have a recommendation for a good, proven, all-round injector capable of making 600whp...?
BTW- Idle is a bit lumpier than stock but was more noticable when I put the Tomei Poncams in, so I know they"re not the main cause.
First thing you need to do is get rid of those shit bricks they call injectors. Test the ACTUAL latency on them (with an oscilloscope) and you'll find they'll be 2.2ms. I bet you have a really lumpy idle as well? That's because your tuner is trying to get the correct AFR at idle but can't due to the terrible latency those injectors have.
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What I'm after is (at least is) the AFR and 4D table for the VIpec/Rb26 tune; if someone was willing to share their config file, I could see that/other settings and take note if they are same/different and try to work from there.
I'm trying not to disrespect the tuner here; he is an authorized Vipec dealer w/Dynopac dyno and has done a number of vehicles and overall helpful....but seems to have issues with RB26's. Can make power but not drivability and there is no amount of 'debating' that is going to bring that about; only real data from other VIpec/GT-R's would reveal what could be some of the shortfalls. Good question/comments...will answer a few peoples in this note.
BTW - in my case, the injectors are 700cc Sards (drop in for RB26); lag is 0.65ms and I believe that is identical to factory. I didn't want to bore everyone with my 'vanilla' build but maybe it'll help people understand the config:
Unopened RB26 (except for cams); strong compression/even
2x Garrett 2860-5's
Tomei PonCam B
Sard 700cc injector w/hi-flow regulator and rail
Tomei header/dumps
HKS Silent y-pipe/catback
Innovate LC-1 WB; feeding back in to VIPEC and bung welded in to hollowed-out cat
- thought it might be a bit too far back; this is also where we put the WB for the dyno (we didn't use tailpipe sniffer)
- I know the LC-1 doesnt read 100% same as the Dynopac WB but it's farily close (.2-.4 variance across range) so we use it when closed loop
HKS DLI ignition pack w/Splitfire coilpacks
Running MAP mounted on VIPEC (considering changing to 3bar MAP sensor which will be mounted on firewall to shorten the boost signal path)
VIPEC plug/play
Hope this additional info helps.
BTW - I've contacted Ray Hall before and although friendly, pretty much told me to go back to my local guy. I'm sure he doesnt want the world calling him and reason why he doesnt sell direct to the whole planet (trains other guys and then sets them up to work with 'the locals'). Still, this has been going on too long and we need help; word is going around here that 'Vipec doesnt work with RB26' and I don't think that is the case from everything I've seen/heard coming out of your part of the world...we just need a good baseline.
No matter what country you are in, the tune should not be done any differently. I don't really understand what you are after, is it the config file for setting up ignition angle etc, or an actual tune?
If your tuner can't tune a car, then are they really best equipped for the job? They are no different to any other straight 6 on the planet really.
Don't forget that injector latency will have a big effect on the colour of the bumper and if you use something with a 2ms delay, then you may not be able to get it any better than 12:1 at idle. If you try to tune it at 14.7:1 at idle, all it will do is throw fuel out the tailpipe.
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Greetings from Canada, eh?
We've got a few VIPEC dealers up here but tuning seems to be an issue; particularly, R32 GT-R's (RB26DETT) with mild->medium mods (400-600whp).
Asked around and gotten a few (very general) opinions re: AFR, & 4D tables but nothing real to compare our values with (except each others). Common problems are running rich; we are using 2 or 4-wheel dynos w/wideband and trying to get the fuel trim right but I think we need to start from scratch with new AFR table, rework the 4D and move on from there.
Anyone got some sample VIPEC config files we could check out? Tuners have been taking a stab at this for a few years now but not making much headway. Don't get me wrong...cars run but not nearly as well as they could. Tireds of washing soot off of my bumper and watering-down my oil.
I hear this is the place to get VIPEC info....the place where they're made! Let's hear what you got...
Much appreciated
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Anyone here looking for a R32 N1 w/45k km's on it? Condition 4A/B, can show the data sheet. I don't have 10 posts yet so its not letting me PM yet but I'm sure a few responses here will thake care of that!
J
No takers?!? Not even a tire-kicker, eh....
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Ta.!!
Anyone here looking for a R32 N1 w/45k km's on it? Condition 4A/B, can show the data sheet. I don't have 10 posts yet so its not letting me PM yet but I'm sure a few responses here will thake care of that!
J
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Not on topic but the only way I could get a reply to you, Cloaky (I dont have 10 posts yet).
Re; R32 N1 of mine; I bought it was 34k km's on it and it currently has 45k. My engine bay parts look MUCH better than that fake w/27k that was advertised. I would consider selling mine for $37k AUD and I've got receipts for the $10K worth of mods I've recently/have yet to add so I'm really only after $27K AUD. External/internal kept stock so it looks like most other GT-R's; gets a lot of attention at car shows...even the R35 guys spend time checking it out as they want to see what 'one of the cars that started it all' looks like. Great piece of history and did I mention it dyno'd 400hp completely STOCK?!?
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Called the owner to enquire about it and he said the engine was N1 but the shell was not. I don't think he was trying to shonk anyone, I think it was more so just a lack of knowledge. Still a nice clean example of an R32GTR though.
Ryan
I dunno...blasting off a 'N1 for sale' and then only thing 'N1' about his car is the engine. Can he even prove that? Like I said, that engine does not look like any I've seen with only 27k km's on it...too much paint missing and a VIN plate that's just barely hanging on. Perhaps he's simply repeating what he was told when he bought the car but then someone snookered him...still doesn't make it right.
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I have a 1992 R32 GT-R N1 (Canada); I also know of 2 more here in North America: 1 is in L.A....the other is in Toronto.
And of course, don't forget that Mines has (1) N1 of each model: R32/33/34
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Unless someone added a bunch of stuff to that car, it is indeed NOT an N1. If you want to compare, I can send pics of mine.
I wouldn't trust that VIN plate, notice that it's falling off (1 plug is gone) of the firewall so even if it decodes as an N1, it may have been swapped. Best way to tell is compare the VIN on the plate to the VIN engraved in to the firewall to it's right....those should be IDENTICAL. I enlarged the pic of the engine bay but it is too lo-res to read the VIN on the plate/engraving on the firewall. If someone can send me a hi-res/readable pic of both, I can tell you without a doubt.
J
BTW - if anyone here does want a real R32 N1 and is willing to pay a fair price for it, I may have mine for sale...
UPDATE: I rechecked the info supplied and the more I look, the less I agree of what this car is proclaimed to be: A car with 27k km's should NOT have as much paint chipped off of the intake/timing belt cover unless it was routinely driven down gravel roads, driven very fast frequently or simply does not have 27k km's on it. Please provide proof that the 27k km's are real because those photos look like the engine bay of a car with 127+k km's on it.
Climate controls are questionable for an N1 and of course there are the other issues other folks have pointed out that don't match. I'll reserve my final judgement until I can see that hi-def photo of the VIN/firewall that I asked for because everyone is entitled to a chance to prove their claims....but there are many things here that just don't seem right and I HATE it when people get screwed.
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I have spoken to the owner and they knew very little about the car, really doubt its a N1.
Unless someone added a bunch of stuff to that car, it is indeed NOT an N1. If you want to compare, I can send pics of mine.
I wouldn't trust that VIN plate, notice that it's falling off (1 plug is gone) of the firewall so even if it decodes as an N1, it may have been swapped. Best way to tell is compare the VIN on the plate to the VIN engraved in to the firewall to it's right....those should be IDENTICAL. I enlarged the pic of the engine bay but it is too lo-res to read the VIN on the plate/engraving on the firewall. If someone can send me a hi-res/readable pic of both, I can tell you without a doubt.
J
BTW - if anyone here does want a real R32 N1 and is willing to pay a fair price for it, I may have mine for sale...
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Here's a VIN to check out:
BNR32-219551
BTW - the guy in the UK writing a mini book about N1's: does anyone know of anyone keeping a list of where the R32 N1's ended up? Would also like to get intouch with this fellow...
Brembo's - 91/92 N1's came with standard calipers - As far as i know24U v 05U - I'm yet to see any conclussive evidence that ALL N1's have 24U. I was actually told that the earlier models were stamped just the same as standard GTR's. Mine for example is 05U. I've had the car inspected by numerous mechanics and not 1 of them said that there is any evidence that the engine has been swapped(inspecting mounts etc). It's also a very low k's car with log books and service record.
Not that that's 100% conclusive.
There's a guy in the UK which is currently writing a "mini" book on N1's which I'm helping sort of with. He's got a few contacts and is sending me a copy as soon as it's done.
Vipec Ecu - Need Sample Config
in Forced Induction Performance
Posted
Wow...that's horrible to think that SARD/Denso product is so out of spec; I dont think I saw that my tuner's shop had an oscilliscope but I can check. As a test, my idle is closed-loop so figured I'd give a test by bumping the lag time by a few .10's and see if they car liked that e.g. should correct itself AFR-wise with the new lag punched in. It did not like it at all...and the further I went the less it liked it. What the REAL value of those injectors are...remains to be seen. Heard guys recommend other brands but I'd like to keep them drop-in style (e.g. no harness-hacking)...are the Siemens like that or what other brands do guys recommend?
Understood the other fellows comment re: getting a bunch of us together and finding someone else to tune our cars in 1 session. Problem is, these cars are anywhere from a few/several 100'kms apart and like I said earlier, non-VIPEC tuners are either 1) complete amatuers 2) pushing their own brands. Recall: Canada is almost 50% bigger than Australia and we have only 50% of the Vipec dealers...major logisitical issues. As for the 'try another brand/tuner' option, convincing up to 1/2 dozen fellows to throw thousands $ of ECU's/tuning in the garbage is like setting a mint GT-R on fire for laughs...not likely to happen unless mass hysteria sets in.
I did get a note back from Ray Hall with comments on the config file I sent him; off-cuff, he found a number of basic items mis-configured and provided a few recommendations. Not enough to get this straightened out from but I did forward them on to my tuner; hopefully I can get everyone working on the same page to resolve this.
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Request still stands: anyone having a similar build to mine and wanting to share their VIPEC data...would be greatly appreciated.
email: [email protected] - your info, if requested, will be kept in confidence
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