Tonba
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Posts posted by Tonba
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^ 100% think your right there lith. The 76mm wheel on both those turbos (GTX76 and HTA76) will not make any more power, 100% due to the turbine. The turbine is simply too small.
For this reason, I think the HTA76 is a better combo. The smaller inducer, encourages fast turbo response, while playing to the GT30 turbine wheel strengths. The GTX76 flows more air, but as stated before, it means nothing as the GT30 turbine cant flow as much air.
the GTX76 is much more suited to the GT35 turbine configuration. (to make use of the extra airflow!)
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Looks like a good solid team!
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I'm still loving the HTA3076 but agree the 3L would probably favour the 3582!!
I am glad i stuck with the 3076 as the power is great and the response is nice, on track i need to learn to get it up on boost quicker out of the corners as i was just using 3rd and 4th the whole day, blew a gearbox the day earlier so am trying to be nice to the new one lol....
Anti-lag??
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I'd love to see someone put a 7163 on a smaller engine like the SR20. I think I would be fantastic.
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I want to see someone try the new FP6466HTZ
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Looking great mat!
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So, I have been doing some calculations, and playing with the BW Matchbot to see how an EFR8374 with T4 1.05 A/R TS housing would go on my car, and this is what I have come up with. I believe 36psi can be all in around 4,300 - 4,400rpm, possibly earlier.
This particular one is daily and possible 'time-attack' mode but I feel that the intercooler would cop too much heat soak on this boost pressure which would be detrimental to the engine and performance over a lap. This is based on 15psi (1 BAR) @ 4,000 ramping to 36psi (2.5 BAR) from 4,500rpm to 8,000rpm)
I have also done a 'Circuit' model based on a maximum of 26psi.
http://www.turbos.bwauto.com/aftermarket/matchbot/index.html#version=1.3&displacement=2.185&CID=133.3287&altitude=500&baro=14.502&aat=85&turboconfig=1&compressor=83s75&pt1_rpm=4000&pt1_ve=90&pt1_boost=15&pt1_ie=99&pt1_filres=0.08&pt1_ipd=0.25&pt1_mbp=0.5&pt1_ce=65&pt1_te=75&pt1_egt=1700&pt1_ter=1.53&pt1_pw=5.31&pt1_bsfc=0.43&pt1_afr=13.5&pt1_wts=300&pt1_wd=83&pt1_wd2=74&pt1_wrsin=69033&pt2_rpm=4500&pt2_ve=98&pt2_boost=26&pt2_ie=95&pt2_filres=0.1&pt2_ipd=0.5&pt2_mbp=1&pt2_ce=70&pt2_te=73&pt2_egt=1600&pt2_ter=1.98&pt2_pw=9.46&pt2_bsfc=0.45&pt2_afr=11.5&pt2_wts=320&pt2_wd=83&pt2_wd2=74&pt2_wrsin=73635&pt3_rpm=5000&pt3_ve=103&pt3_boost=26&pt3_ie=95&pt3_filres=0.12&pt3_ipd=1&pt3_mbp=1.3&pt3_ce=73.5&pt3_te=72&pt3_egt=1600&pt3_ter=2.07&pt3_pw=15.66&pt3_bsfc=0.48&pt3_afr=11.5&pt3_wts=340&pt3_wd=83&pt3_wd2=74&pt3_wrsin=78238&pt4_rpm=6000&pt4_ve=105&pt4_boost=26&pt4_ie=92&pt4_filres=0.15&pt4_ipd=1.5&pt4_mbp=1.5&pt4_ce=73.5&pt4_te=71&pt4_egt=1600&pt4_ter=2.27&pt4_pw=22.05&pt4_bsfc=0.5&pt4_afr=11.5&pt4_wts=368&pt4_wd=83&pt4_wd2=74&pt4_wrsin=84681&pt5_rpm=7000&pt5_ve=107&pt5_boost=26&pt5_ie=90&pt5_filres=0.18&pt5_ipd=1.5&pt5_mbp=1.8&pt5_ce=71.5&pt5_te=70&pt5_egt=1600&pt5_ter=2.47&pt5_pw=25.38&pt5_bsfc=0.52&pt5_afr=11.5&pt5_wts=400&pt5_wd=83&pt5_wd2=74&pt5_wrsin=92044&pt6_rpm=8000&pt6_ve=103&pt6_boost=26&pt6_ie=90&pt6_filres=0.2&pt6_ipd=1.5&pt6_mbp=2&pt6_ce=65&pt6_te=70&pt6_egt=1600&pt6_ter=2.7&pt6_pw=24.35&pt6_bsfc=0.55&pt6_afr=11.5&pt6_wts=400&pt6_wd=83&pt6_wd2=74&pt6_wrsin=92044&
And last one. A 'Kill-Mode' for dyno runs or if I want to take to the drags. This is based on 15psi (1 BAR) @ 4,000 ramping to 45psi (3.1 BAR) from 4,500rpm to 6,000rpm, then ramping down to 40psi (2.75 BAR) by 7,000rpm finally ramping down to 36psi (2.5 BAR) at 8,000rpm. The engine is built with the best components, so it has no problem taking that type of boost.
Yes - The matchbot presents a calculated torque of over 850+ nm between 4500 and 6000rpm. On a 2.2ltr 4cyl?!! WHAT! -
gave up on attachments, link for PDF study: http://docdroid.net/c6j6
Interesting article Geoff. Thanks!
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Since it has been so long since I posted some pictures of the bodywork... Here are some pictures I took a few months ago!
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The last EFR failure I have heard of in the last 18 months (I think?) was an EFR9180 which was pushed a little too hard and the turbine wheel let go, which imho isn't a problem with the turbo so much as something worth knowing about keeping in mind when working with a Titanium Alloy type turbine wheel.... they don't like being over spun hard, same applies to the TD05 TME wheels etc. Again, that turbo was being push well past the limit - not just a turbo being used to normal, or normal "pushing it a bit hard" type levels.
I guess it comes back to the whole... 'why bother with the turbo speed sensor'. You need it because Ti turbine wheels are reknown for failure from overspeed.
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MHI got it going on and have for some time, a pair of TD05's of an EVO9 with Ti turbine wheels would be cool a reckon (which appropriate housings of course).
Those turbos are known to have problems.. Particularly with high shaft speeds, and antilag.
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Plenty of early shaft failures, and due to that it took months/years to supply some of the early orders and catch up with demand.
Have you even read this thread?
I keep hearing of failures, but I haven't seen any yet. I just wasn't sure..
Not the whole 89pages from the start... no I haven't.
Quite a few went bang when they were first released
Hmmm, interesting. Although a more then a few precisions have gone bang and people still seem to come back to them? Its not like BW are new players in the turbo game...
Oh, and I know a lot of FP turbos have done bang but people keep coming back!
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I dunno about you guys, but most turbo cars I see already have a more than suitable stock BOV.
Unfortunately they failed to make the intended splash onto the market, due to quite a few early failures, and it really doesn't matter the reason, people stepped back from them understandably. Garrett obviously tested their turbo's better, and decided not to release the Ti wheels just yet. I think they will be re-thinking that decision now.
Correct, most cars do run BOVs. But I believe its not only the fact you can save that money upgrading from stock, I think its the engineering behind it and how the recirculated airflow is designed to assist it keeping up shaft speed, when throttle plate is closed.
What failures?
Post people I talk to are staying away due to ugly design (I have heard that more times then not!), high cost, and no results. Not failures..?
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Completely agree! For a vehicle like the skyline, an EFR is awesome, and I think you would be silly not to look seriously at one, WITH all the bits...
I just have issues trying to squeeze those extra 'bits' into my tiny east-west engine bay...
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The FP Black is a pretty awesome turbo, have you actually had it running and tuned yet?
Yes it is an awesome turbo. I haven't run it on my new setup, only my old 2.3L. We didn't run it too hard, only 23psi in which it made a very lazy 300kW on e85.
Spool was really good for a turbo its size, but transient response wasn't the best... Journal bearing turbo..
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Just ceramic bearing failures.
Been there tried that...
Garrett then? Or FP as you suggested??
Still cheaper then EFR.
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Oh crap, FP don't have compressor maps... Whatever would you do in that case?
The sky is falling...
FP make good street turbos, and the best 'bolt-on' solution for a number of make and models.
But personally, I just don't know where mine is (on compressor map), which is why I run it on such low power on track. I just want consistent power. I think FP make great compressors, but it frustrates me they done provide compressor maps. Oh not to mention that it annoys me about the turbine side and dump pipe design...
You can hardly call FP in the same league as EFR, ESPECIALLY in motorsport applications.
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-sigh-
If you guys on actually care for all the technology offered in this package.. why bother for such an expensive turbo with barely any results... Why not just got for a proven Precision, which happen to make the light switch power your interested in, all for a low cost... AND no real mounting issues....
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This bloke!
The whole point of the turbo speed sensor is so you can make sure where on the compressor map you are. Going outside of that compressor map is for people that have dyno queens, or run some sort of ice box for drags, as it superheats the air, reduces effency and increases chance of engine damage.
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Someone is paying attention!
Ok, how about WRC cars...
WRC rally cars don't need a bov because air on closed throttle is redirected into the exhaust manifold for the anti-lag system.
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The BOV is incorporated for only one reason, the shaft would fail if you didn't run a bov at a guess, too brittle.
Borg Warner broke the existing turbocharger mold when it created the EFR line. One of the main goals was integrating other turbo system components into the turbocharger. This ploy can save time, money and headaches. The biggest integration is the inclusion of an integrated blow-off valve. No more bung welding on delicate intake pipes. The BOV is laid-out as a compressor recirculation device that redirects the charge air from the turbo's compressor outlet to a low-pressure point just before the compressor inlet, which really helps keep the unit spooled between shifts.
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How could you put a Bov on a motor that doesnt have a throttle plate
Intake manifold never sees vacuum
Someone that is talking some sense!
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I can tell you, keeping the split pulse is nowhere near as important as getting the Ti wheels in there. I will be going a single pulse manifold if nothing twin is available by then, as I believe the whole split V single debate is a bit of a crock.
Externally gating off the housing opens up so many more options, and if the compressor housing is bulky and gets in the way, it will be modified.
I will definitely be low mounting, whatever the turbo I end up with, but if you are seriously worried about a couple of kg mounted 6 inches higher, you have issues. The turbo fits where it fits, and it's my job to make it work.
Dump radius, I have yet to see a good one on an Evo.
I disagree with a few things there. First off, the whole point of the EFR's is that a whole lot of little things come together to make a noticeable result. The compressor housing is bulky because of the integrated BOV. Now, sure you can modify it so the BOV doesn't exist, BUT the BOV outlet is positioned to 'vent' on the back side of the compressor blades. What this does is on release of throttle, the air vents onto the compressor wheel, to help keep the momentum of the assembly up. In combination with this, you have the light weight turbine AND compressor so the effect of the BOV is greater.
In addition to the above, the twin scroll housing assists in transient response as you do not have exhaust waves/pulses fighting against each other. This minimises losses here.
The light weight turbine is only a piece of the puzzle. Sure you might notice something with it only, but the effect is multiplied with the integrated BOV and twinscroll.
In regards to the high mount, while most people mounting the turbo this way in a street application, wouldn't notice the change in weight distribution, they WILL notice the increase in intercooler pipe length as it contributes to longer spool times and longer transient response time, in comparison to a low mount setup.
And I do agree, Evo's generally have poor dump pipe designs.. so where is the harm in trying to optimise this area?
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If you get the newer external gate housings it should fit no problem. 4cyl manifolds are easily made/modified.
I am in the same boat once the evo7 is run in, I would like to push the 2.3 stroker to its limits, but lag is a bummer.
If your referring to the Tial housings... they are good, but you loose twin scroll. Which is kinda what you want on a single turbo 4cyl... If not, you should just save yourself money by getting a precision.
Fitting the T4 divided is not that simple. Not for a daily driver anyways. The CHRA is longer then the generic Precision or Garrett offering, and so is the turbine housing. Add this in with the bulky compressor cover, and it is a real struggle to fit downlow.
1. You need to notch the gearbox mount
2. If your keeping the A/C in the stock location (I'm currently looking into relocation or replacement with electric), the radius on the dump pipe would be and is horrible.
Mounting internal (or external gate) in high mount configuration has its own issues;
1. Your moving a significant amount of weight HIGHER in the front of the car. It doesn't promote good handling.
2. The 'lower intercooler pipe' or turbo to intercooler pipe has increased length over a low mount, thus kinda defying the whole point of using an EFR - Loosing transient response
The actual construction of the manifold isn't that hard, its more how everything sits. If you can manage to relocate the A/C to give you a better radius on the dump pipe, it would be perfect....
Forced Performance Hta Turbos
in Forced Induction Performance
Posted
Deffo gotta try to pick-up the throttle earlier.
If that isn't possible due to car reaction to earlier throttle (oversteer or understeer), might be time to start thinking about a little bit of aero to keep corner speeds up a little more... a few more kph might make the difference!