rev210
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Posts posted by rev210
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keep it light for now .
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I'm not having pain or anything like that, I can just feel it more in the shoulders. I'll try some assisted pullups, stretching etc then go back to my bench pressing and OHP and see if there's any difference after a week.
I'm probably just being overly paranoid, but it has been bugging me that my pressing movements are really lagging behind the rows, squats, deadlift.
You won't feel pain first. That comes later. Weakness is the sign. If you go backwards thats always a problem anyway and should get attention (sleep / diet / injury)
Assisted pullups aren't part of the recovery. Stick to external rotations/ bands / cubans. Those sorts of movements.
Scapular wall slide is another test for thorasic mobility. How do go with that?
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Bent rows are good . Upright are bad for the shoulders and you don't need them.
Cuban press and a few other external rotation movements are what will be usefull.
Also work on mobility of the shoulders and thorasic spine. There are some tests you can do to determine what your starting point is like.
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47.5, was 3x10 now 3x8. Having trouble on the last set getting all of the reps out, but I have also changed from a fixed to an olympic barbell.
From experience Not good. Could be an injury , unless the rest of the workout looks like it's doing the same thing. Strain will be to the rotator cuff. The lack of stabillity loses muscle power in the lift and causes early fatigue . Get someone to press a thumb on the muscles in the area firmly . If you can find a few knots then give pressing a break and do some external rotation work for a week or two. You don't 'feel' the rotator cuff till it's inflamed to the point of causing the tendon in the shoulder socket to get impinged.
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opinions on how to improve overhead press and other pushing movements?
do external rotation movements, like cuban press. There are a few ways to approach it. Rows help. If you have a good muscle strength balance then the shoulder is more powerfull by virtue of stabillity.
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20s by next week dude. Thats 21 or bust ..pun
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I agree with you but, maybe its about whats more fun to do as well.
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Mitch, whilst the strength gains aren't impressive relatively speaking .Birds has said before that this program isn't about getting stronger (big lifts). It's an asthetic program. So in fairness the volume is probably more relevant when you are looking at numbers.
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great work Nick ! Your total is heading north pretty quick mate. In the 600+ now , what did you weight in at?
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Birds this is degenerating.
In my defence. I have urged Leesh to seek a physio in both cases as primary. The advice is around providing Leesh with pain relief and comfort before she is able to get diagnosis and professional treatment. I am correct on the root cause of the issue but, being right isn't worth anything to me in this case. I only wish to help Leesh recover and prevent her from getting hurt. I will defer to the professional in every case , I am actually very pleased to be completely wrong if it means Leesh has a healthier back and shoulders.
If my input isn't appreciated and as you say is seen as ineffective and wrong, then I should take that as a cue to butt out. Which I now will. I don't want to cause un-necessary conflict and I mean no offence to you Birds, which it seems I have caused and do apologise for.
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I'll stop clogging your thread now Leesh...sorry ranting away there.
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oh and at my best I picked 118kg off the deck (clean) and could press for 5 strict , full ROM, at half that dudes size. Reckon he might have given me a few minutes to chat.... ha ha.
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If it's good enough for this lad to do 125kg overhead, then it's good enough for me. But you try telling him he should be doing it in front.
I have tried both in front and behind the neck; I find the latter offers better isolation of the delts, taking the chest and (some) of the tris out of the equation. This exercise helped me a great deal with other shoulder heavy exercises and hypertrophy of the shoulders in general.
If you care to investigate the anatomy elements against your anecdotal understanding ,you will discover what I am saying is true. If you wish to continue doing what you do thats fine as well.
Last time Leesh had a shoulder pop , which turned out to be the thorasic spine injury I called it before diagnosis because sadly I have been through the same experience. I learnt why it happens. My shoulder construction wasn't at fault then either , nor was my form.
The guy in the vid has the bar quite high up on the neck. Thats good form , it's keeping the range of motion away from the extreme extension and angle. He's also doing partials. Maybe he buggered his shoulder or back up and got some advice?
here's a little guy pressing 150kg. because posting vids is fun.
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Shoulder press in front is equally effective for delt development, it's a non-issue. Your pecs are minor muscles in the movement in both methods.
You may find you get more development actually from the front version.
Remember the supporting muscles need to have a turn too, so they a balanced in strength to the delts internal rotation strength.
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pfft...dips and curls aren't important mate. The other stuff tho' Well done!
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Which leaves us only with shoulder press, which I strongly disagree about being bad to do behind neck. Have been doing the movement for years and I have never had an injury as a direct result of it, nor anyone I know who performs the same exercise. I have also taught it to many and Leesh is the only one with these issues. I have also witnessed her performing the movement without fault or any pain following it.
Birds , you aren't a trainer in my definition. You are someone who tries to help and motivate and that's not bad. If you call yourself a trainer then must take up a greater responsibility. Markos is a trainer for example.
To my mind ,I would probably not undertake training someone remotely. It would be irresponsible of me to do that to someone, as it would expose them to risk. I would be responsible for that. I would be responsible for their correct learning and execution. I could not ensure the actions to mitigate those issues so I would not agree to do it. Hence Markos doesn't e-train people.
Having said that I think you probably mean 'helping' people when you say trainer. So I am not putting you in that bucket. I also think it's great Leesh has someone to encourage her, who really cares about her.
Shoulder wise;
for your consideration.(what limited knowledge I have to give)
Behind the neck press puts the shoulder in extreme external and horizontal abduction. So you force the shoulder into the very end range of the joints motion. The glenohumeral joint is the most mobile and also the least stable joint in the body. Shoulder press is just much more stable with the humerus moving in the scapular plane. Thats about 25-30 deg forward.
Additionally ,the extra pressure / load is actually not required for development of the delts. It's not better to behind the head press in any way.
Peoples shoulder construction varies around the socket and this makes people predisposed to issues if they aren't adopting best practice.
The scapular position and load depending on the way peoples upper backs are can cause thorasic injury. With the right load it's just ready to pop.
I am guessing you have 'taught it' to a sample less than 30, making that statement invalid as evidence. Not that it's an issue , the muscle mags have taught it probably many thousand times more than that. Doesn't make it the 'best' way to lift or safe , then again nor does it make it a ineffective way to develop the delts . But, it's inferior to the press in front and it's less stable nature means a higher risk of injury. So if you understand the choice you won't do it.
I speak with this understanding as I had behind the neck pressed for years and then did a very similar thing to Leesh with the thorasic spine. The anatomic expert who pointed this out to me back then ,was a physio and trainer of elite athletes.
Since then I learnt to do it 'better' and my press became far stronger almost overnight vs the old way.
Hopefully this information can be useful
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Birds is the one who taught me everything, are you saying he taught me wrong technique?
Okay I book physio next week.
Teaching technique is a skill in itself. I think Birds was trying to show you want he knows and for the most part he may do things ok himself. But, It's actually quite tricky to teach other people. Being a teacher yourself you can reflect on this truth. Putting it in edu speak. Trainers (good ones) are basically teachers and have mastered the pedagogy of physical training. Training different people - ages / sex / abilities requires a different understanding of the outcomes.
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Now I'm scared, my shoulder injury was thoracic spine
I don't know what I should be doing anymore. I just want to bench, squat and deadlift
Hey it's going to be alright , just the learning process. That spine issue is just flaring up. It will be muscular , same as before.
You are gradually getting to know what techniques are the right ones. Whoever taught you the shoulder press probably didn't know any better, ditto the bench , ditto the dead lift and so on. In each case you have researched and improved.Over head press wise, thats ok you can get the right way sorted easy and sometimes there are variations of movements that take into account we are built differently. In the mean time just rest yourself and fix yourself up.
Physio will do. They just need to release the muscles with a massage etc. You can ice the area to help the inflammation (bag of frozen peas).
If it's not too tender a gentle foam roller work on the upper back would help a little. It's a gentle version of what the physio will do more specifically. You will likely hear some 'cracks' as the vertibrae are pushed around from the muscle spasms. But, it will help relax the muscles.
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I just said my ribs hurt when I was doing deads on Wednesday.
My trainer said to leave deads until Saturday to rest it as I wanted to try again the next day, he said no leave to Sat and if it hurts he said stop. I did one rep same thing.
Has to be something with my form, don't know what though.
It's not the deads that gave you the issue (although it's going to now be a problem). It's scapular / thorasic spine issue. Causes you to feel like you can't breathe and the transfer of pain occurs around the shoulder to the rib cage. Thorasic spine branches out to nerves around the upper torso, so the spasm and referred pain go that way.
The deadlifting you are doing probably has you bracing in a scapular retraction before the lift, the take up of the weight will cause spasm in the muscles effected near the spine.
my advice is to stop doing the 'pressing' movements and get it seen to. The offender will be overhead press or bench most likely. If you are or have been bro-pressing behind the head I will point the finger at that.
please don't do anything further Leesh until you have seen a specialist. You don't want a herniated disc.
Bag of frozen peas between the shoulder blades for 30 min when you are sitting comfortably, as often as you can and before bed. Then thorasic flexion and extension stretches, gentle. You can use a foam roller for the upper back extension stretch but, I'd leave that for now and just use a rolled up towel.
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Also, Leesh, when I do 2-3 exercises it only takes me 45 minutes. If I was doing your workout I would be done in an hour or just over.
nasal delivery technolgy will help you last longer in the gym.
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Thorasic spine leesh. Not deadlifts fault. Be press movement most likely
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I have no idea about my feet? I might go to athletes foot and get them to use that machine on my feet.
I did 100kg last session too! However last session I only did 1 of 90 and none of 80kg. It's the other sets that have jumped up
Shall I try 105kg next session?
Here's a scenario.
1 warmup set of a poofteenth of nothing (dynamic stretch) then 2 sets of 95kg . big fat rest in-between sets . How long? Wait till your pulse returns to resting. Whatever reps you get. Should be in the 3-5s but go to failure. No max rep stuff every workout,
Up your weight in a week by 10kg - (try 105kg for 3-5 in the first set, if under 3 reps then go 100kg for second set) do the same thing. See what happens.
And so on. reps in the 3-5's , under 3 drop weight (no loss if you do 2 still will do the job) , over 5 up weight
eg; get to 6 reps and increase kg to drop to 3 reps.
No more 1rm till christmas. See if you can unwrap 140kg as a PB.
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Sounds about right to me, but out of the mentioned movements all I really focus on is the clean and press, I am trying to learn to snatch but I am finding it a very hard movement to pull off.
Hence the only real clarification from me would be in the clean and press, well the press part any way, with a mil press the bar is pressed up but slightly forward, with the clean and press the press ends with the bar straight up and the head pushed forward with the shoulders pushed back (head through the window)like a clean and jerk.
Well at least this is how I was taught to do it, I firmly believe this is the best full body movement there is, others may differ but it is my fav, it smashes me and makes me puff.
Yes I'm a fan boy, plus it scares most of the gym plebs away from the rack area where they do their concentration curls for the girls,LOL.
Clean then military press for reps is an old favorite of mine. It's good to know you can pick the weight up off the ground as opposed to from a shoulder height rack. I haven't done it seriouslyt since a single attempt earlier this year , 105kg for a few reps, vid on my training log.
The press is always head through the window style. Unless you are sitting on reclined bench or doing the 'bro' version behind the head.
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Project: Anything Is Possible
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Sorry to hear. Give anything press / internal rotation a big rest.