sprint32

cool, much appreciated

True. Just a thought.

I'd normaly say ignition timing as well. What did they do with the 'highflow' turbo? Did they modify the exhaust side in any way. the reason I ask is maybe the turbo is now surgeing and feels like misfiring. But maybe the coils are just dirty? (carbon tracking).

Good way to put it, but no I'm not. I just notice there's not too many people trying different things. How do you think trust, hks, etc develop things? But they also sell according to trends as any company would. Anyway, I'm only doing lap sprint's lasting three laps so no problem there, although a valid point sydreykid. (waer injection) Answers for Joel: I'm not sure about mixing in methanol yet. I know its advantages, I just want to play and see how far I can push just water first, ther go methanol mixtures. Yes, I am going to use a water to air intercooler. Try a few different methods of cooling the water too. HA! yeah, I've got the head off now actually. Water pump seal spat it and I did the head gasket! I was thinking of using a thicker headgasket but decided to keep the standard size for exactly that reason. (quench area) Lucky for me I tested the head for warping at work and was ok. ( I left it on the block for two days after it blew just incase.) This is something I've watched with great interest since back when I was running a xflow 250 in a cortina on methanol. (archerfield). Great gains to be had. I looked in the ports and at the valves and have decided to just clean up the ports and match them (to the manifold). I'm not really chasing too much power as the track i'm running on is very tight and unlikely to be in third for very long, so I think the standard valves will do 'me' just fine. Not much room to play with those anyway. Truthfully 180rwkw's will be plenty for my purpose, but we always want more dont we? I dont want to waste any potential. The big part of my car on this track will be the suspension and brakes. But I wouldn't mind the extra power for the drags on the other side of road from this track, as this is what most of my friends are in to. That way I can join in with them. Thanks for the link. Cool.

I'm also in townsville The reason I asked (well actually stated) that is because I understand every dyno reads slightly different, But not 30 odd kw. At least nowhere I'd take MY car. I got narky cause I was attacked before even being heard. If we make the combustion process more efficent with the same amount of air we've made a step ahead. The reason I was thinking of using water injection is because of not only it's cooling properties, but it's characteristics in the combustion process as well, enabelling better use of even pump fuel. Those sort of things. No-one is doubting my methods, only outputs. I dont belive anyone has come forward with 'my setup' (to be) to say it wont work have they? Maybe it won't, I dont know yet, But I wont be detered by people who won't try a different method. At the same time there was apparently a Le mans prototype that ran a refrigerant to cool their intercoolers a while back, maybe it didnt work, maybe it did, but it had to have SOME merit to it for someone at that level to try it. Series II turbo. 220rwkw and beyond? That wasn't a statement, it was a question, and now I finally got a chance to say what I was thinking. This was about a different idea, not about dyno wars. (perhaps my title was a bit misleading as this is all anyone seems to be concerned with.) I'm after response before power, but if I can have a little bit more of both, I'm all for it.

That's all it was meant to be. Everyone give him a clap for being the hardass with the attitude. This is a discusion forum mate where we share ideas and theorys for others to elaborate on till we come up with an idea that we can try. If you want an arguement, go and play on www.performance forums.com Plenty of people willing to accomodate you there.

Guys, Your missing my point! That and the fact that I'm going to be using 2 litres less piping to have to compress which would be wasted turbo shaft speed, And dont give me any more of this crap about larger pipe systems not making any more lag, and sapping power if they are too big. Look at your subbie's, GTI-R's, VL commodores with no intercooler at all (not a great example, but imagine if it had water injection, He's got great response too without the intercooler.), would you use a large truck cooler without cutting it down? Course you wouldn’t, that would be too laggy and waste power I hear you say I'm simply saying that if we use some out of the 'norm' (RE: no rice, doing it just because everyone else has already sort of thing.) And of course the only people who are going to reply to that are those who already have done exactly that. I HAVE had my R32GTS-T type M for over three years now and that was only after I studied the crap out of what can be done with these systems. Fluid dynamics, thermo dynamics between different mediums, etc, etc, and have unfortunately spent too much time correcting other peoples mistakes, and modifying others cars to some quite heady levels. I'm using everything I have learned from PRACTICAL experience, not just doing the same ‘stages’ that everyone else does. Too many sheep believing we’ve discovered everything there is to know, not enough people with inspiration to develop technology to a higher level.

Also, I did re-read the thread rev210. I guess your right, I missinterpreted. I think I must have thought the reason he knew his pump was maxing out is coz he pushed it. Sorry, my mistake.

Actually I said he was making 180rwkw with the standard cooler and ecu/fuel set up. Not 220. I'm sorry for causing such a s**t-storm, But I actually have quite a structured plan. I am going to run a water to air intercooler with water injection plumbed in afterwards. In an attempt to make things a little easier on the turbo trying to FORCE through the restiction in relation to power, I was also considering cams. No-one can deny that helping the engine to breath better by turfing the standard cams will add to end power. Everyone keeps going bigger with everything else but rarely changes these, this perplexes me. I was also going to make the internal wastegate of the turbo larger in an attempt to lessen the dynamic and thermal loads on the ceramic wheel ( opinions?). Everyone is cutting back the exhaust housing to stop back pressure, I was thinking this might work too. Ya see all I meant when I said we should rethink our setups is to try these sort of things to maximize the efficiency of the gear we currently have before spending MORE money on power bits when the power might already have been there but not fully exploited. It's nice to see there are some open minded people out there who are willing to listen to idea's BEFORE slagging people and disregarding them. Cool

Yeah, Deffinatley!!!! Could be helpfull to start modifying maps now before I get the gear I need to do the job. Incidently, what stuff do I need? no-one seems to be able to tell me.

Hey guys, what about boreing out the internal wastegate and fitting a larger wastegate 'flap'? Could this reduce enough backpressure to warrent not machining out the turbine housing as much? Thereby making it more viable to fit on an rb20? what about other smaller compressor wheels, would that be smoother and prevent surge problems?

Yes but you all seem to be having a little trouble reading. This may be HIS result with JUST a safcII, But he DOES have other trinkets as said in the "FIRST POST", However my point is that there may be more to gain with a 'CORRECT TUNE'. I know I said it 'cause I was sitting here when I said IT. EnricoPalazzo: I have no idea what your on about with this 'of the shelf turbo rating', you seem to missunderstand what turbo i'm talking about. Shut down, thats dissapointing. I joined this forum because I thought we were above V8 falcadore mentality. I was actually hopeing for a thought provoking and inteligent discusion ending with some new idea's people would be willing to try. The whole idea why we bought these cars is because we're interested in doing things smarter, not harder. I've done all manner of V8's and other pushrod low tech engines and started this as something with a bit more of a chalenge. It seems to me that the biggest challenge is that people believe too much of what they hear or read. But then, who thought you'd be able to get 250rwkw out of the stock soarer turbo combination. No-one? Martin Donnan did. This was my point. push the limit and when you think you've reached it, look again. Because theres always something that affects the entire system, enabeling more to be done in an area you previously thought was maxed out. Instead we'll do the pile of crabs in the bucket thing.

actually that 180 rwkw figure was with the standard intercooler/fuel system and an untuned safc II. He HAS since produced the higher figure. See it for yourself on skylinesdownunder.com.nz 'RB25 turbo on RB20'. As far as I know ALL RWKW figures are produced on a rolling road dyno!! lol INASNT: how do you know YOUR figures aren't bs? Your so ready to say his are. As far as I know a kilowatt is a kilowatt no matter what country your in. I know all dynos read a little differently but 35rwkw. Can anyone tell me why this phenomenon would occur? look, This will be my last post for a while as my next one will be like a novel so I'm going to make it a word document with scanned maps, charts, etc at work and then post that to show you my reasoning for this sort of power. bit dissapointed not to hear from sydneykid, still, it was good to talk.

Whats the lift and duration of those?

I'm not saying we all do, but alot of people dont, and because of that the miss out on power they already could have had when they go and buy the next penis extension turbo thats not suited to there purpose, thats all. Now I dont want heaps of hate mail over this but we all know there are guys that ARE too lazy or ignorant (not in a bad way and not there fault.) For instance, a mate of mine took his series 2 to a shop and staight away the tuner said his 600x280x70 PWR cooler wouldn't be any good for more than 200 kw at the flywheel (hmmm) and aparently after doing there best with the wolf 3d v4 the best they could do was 160 rwkw at 10 psi because apparently "after that the turbo fryed the air too much to make any more power". Took it home and changed the gap from there 1.1 to 0.8 and gained a shit load of power (double hmmm) we then checked the a/f ratios on the dyno sheet. It runs above 13.5 till 500rpm after the peak torque (do I have to say it?) and then promptly swung down to 10.5 to 11.0 on boost (.......). And then had the gall to ask him to pay for THAT!!! he did as he doesnt know any better. And alot of people dont realize there missing out on this power. We later found that "Scotty at vern crawford mechanical in townsville" (the bloke who 'tuned' it) is great if you want someone to tune your carby fed V8. So good infact that he doesnt need a dyno, he does it by ear, best man around. (HMMMMMMMMMMM). there's alot of these guys out there.

nice save......but I think you missed the point.

have you tried adjusting the spark plug gap? ( i find the spark breaks down after 10 psi) have you tried to get the mixtures closer to 12.2 to 1? Just ask R32 GT on skylinesdownunder.com.nz (I think you know him), He's got the runs on the board. And why does everyone always make these excuses about dyno's reading differently in NZ? that's just nonsense surely. sorry, I dont mean this as an attack on you at all, infact its not directed at anyone in particular, it's just that alot of people dont go about doing the small things to make the combustion process more efficient before progressing, and because of this I think people are not realising the real potential of there combinations. alot of people say that rb20 turbo's are only good for 160rwkw's. Well, ATS has made 200!! Kind of makes you think hey. besides, NZ has nothing BUT imports, so they have alot more experience than we do over here FACT, like it or leave it. (I know, I hate to give the kiwi's anything too but they do) So perhaps we ALL need to rethink our setups and spending habits.

Hi guys, would there be any perceivable advantage to running larger cams with a rb25 turbo on my rb20. I know that tomei poncams give another 30 degrees and more lift, would this give more rapid spoolup and possibly more top end power as i belive that the standard cams are choking even the stock power output in the top end no-matter what boost you run. Thoughts.

Hi guys. listen, theres this guy in NZ that has an rb20 with a series I rb25 turbo. Hes running 13psi through an evo intercooler and is tuned with 450cc injectors and safcII. With this he's running 215rwkw. with discusion it seems this turbo should be able to support upto 19psi on the 2 litre with correct tunning, the only problem being it spools just a tad later. that being the case, what do you think is the potential power output of this combination? furthermore, if we were to use the series II turbo (better spoolup because of the nylon compressor wheel and slightly more efficient.) could this potentialy produce more? :bat: thoughts please. ( especially yours sydneykid.)