hrd-hr30

I always ran an L18 engine in my 1200. Sydneykid, my 1200's rear bar was adjustable, but that's sold now. The Skyline doesn't have them.

I might be doing Ringwood Hillclimb on the 20th, but that's in someone else's car. Otherwise, I'm doing a supersprint and hillclimb at Bathurst on Dec 3 and 4. Feel free to bring some bars for the blind test.

at least you finally admit the response is assymetric... funny, I didn't find any followup real world testing on their site... hmmm... I can pick the difference of loosening my swaybar link pins 3mm (2 turns of a 1.5 thread). Small changes make huge differences to on-limit handling. And either those adjustment holes make a noticeable difference or they don't. They are altering the leverage arm on each side, either that make alters the rate seen at the wheel or it doesn't. You can't have it both ways just to suit whatever your argument is at the time. coulda fooled me

and the fact that a stock MY02 (or whatever it was) WRX rear swaybar is assymetric in effect has what exactly to do with wether setting up multi-hole adjustable bars different from one side to the other has symetric or asymetric effects? look sydneykid, we're not talking about stock swaybars, we're not talking about blade swaybars, I don't care how many times you say V8 Supercar that or famous race car driver this, I designed that, or whatever you come up with next. just like I've been saying. biatch

just saying the adjustment holes either provide a noticeable difference or they dont. if they don't as you are saying, then they're a wank. if they do, they will have a noticeably different effect from one side to the other when setup assymetrically. Unless you're correcting for a serious crossweeight issue, but if I can't even get basic swaybar operation across to you guys, let's not go there...

I just did a bit of a search on Whiteline adjustable bars - I didn't know they made blade adjustable bars for production cars! that was a bit of a surprise, and a bit of a dissapointment that they don't do them for my car but anyway, I found something relevant too. They have actually tested the multi-hole adjustable bars in exactly the way we are talking about. No allusions to any "famous race car driver" or trying to confuse the issue with blade adjusters though, just measured data from a test bench :lol: http://www.whiteline.com.au/articles/NASIO...ymetric_adj.pdf

Are you reaing my posts? I answered all your questions. but this may make it more obvious for you... 1. You now agree that it is OK to have a rotating adjuster on only one side of the stabiliser bar. That it doesn't lead to stagger in the bar rates. Because I got the feeling that you didn't believe that was the case previously. I never disagreed. but lets make it clear we are not talking about the rotating blade adjusters that you keep trying to turn the discussion towards. They are fundamentally different in how they work compared to the multi-hole conventional bars in two ways; a) they do not vary the length of the lever arms, and b ) they become part of the spring. 2. This means the effect of stiffening one arm (connected to one wheel) is passed to the other arm (connected to the other wheel). This results in a uniform (side to side) increase in anti roll. Is that correct? no. fundamental problem with what you are saying. The only type of adjuster that you can stiffen one arm on is the blade type adjuster, which is not what we are discussing. The multi-hole conventional bar simply alters the leverage of the torsional effect of the sway bar to the end of the lever arm. 2. Do you agree that shortening the arms decreases the leverage (of the wheel movement) on the bar ? Hence increases the anti roll? of course you condescending prick... do you? or do you think it is actually stiffening the arm as you said in your previous question? 3. Now if you agree with #1, #2 and #3, please tell me why you think that decreasing the leverage on one arm (connected to one wheel) is not passed to the other arm (connected to the other wheel)? well, #1, #2, and #2... in the case of the type of bar we are discussing, I disagree because of the reasons i have stated in the earlier questions. and I know you don't like it when i repeat myself, 4. In conclusion, if the stiffness increase (due to less leverage) is passed from one wheel to the other, then why would the anti roll rates be different side to side? in conclusion, the stiffness of the bar is in the diametre of the bar. the bar applies the same force to both arms, as I have said previously. changing the length of the lever arms simply changes the torque multiplication of the bar to the wheel.

so you are saying the adjustment holes in the Whiteline bars are all wank then? ie it does not make a noticeable difference to the rate of the bar? That is the only way that it wouldn't produce a noticeably different effect on one side to the other... the website is ancient. Just contact the QLD IPRA Assoc. What car are you planning to run? Numbers are not as high as NSW. QLD still have combined under and overs grids instead of seperate races. I don't know, nearly 30 car grids or something... Obviously dominated by early rotaries as it is everywhere else. Adam Ubergang (sp?) is the runaway leader up here in an RX7. its daylight back to 2nd. Mainly early model cars running up here but there's a few WRX's this year too. Costs? well the same as anywhere else really... as much or as little as you want to spend? You could have had my 1200 for $5000 minus engine and box if you were quick enough. I just sold it to a guy in SA.

I never disagreed that a blade on one side would work. I apologise if that was not clear. I was simply surprised that the V8s would do it that way, as my exposure to these is mainly with open wheelers, and they have had blade type adjusters on both sides. It is no great feat of engineering to adjust them both equally. Most tin tops (sport sedans) use conventioal sliding adjustments on sway bars, for ease of manufacturing and costs. Obviously these are not in-car adjustable. The effects you are describing only hold true for the blade type adjustable bar, which is not what this thread is about. The problem with your reasoning, Sydneykid is that you don't see the difference between the blade adjuster and the multi-hole adjuster. You are getting ahead of yourself without understanding a basic premise of swaybar operation. forget the blade type adjuster, it is not relevant to the discussion about multi-hole adjustable bars. I'll say it agan for the cheap seats, with a little further clarification... a (conventional tubular) sway bar is basically a torsion bar operated by the arms at either end. It is only the middle part of the bar that actually twists and provides the torsion bar (or spring) effect. the arms do not. (At the risk of confusing the subject even more, the arms my flex somewhat but that is not the primary spring effect of the sway bar, and this effect nevertheless conforms to this same reasoning). The length of each arm is critical to the wheel rate at each side. The centre torsion part of the bar does not magically know that it is set up different on each side, it can only apply the same force equally (and oppositely) to each arm. The effect of that force at each wheel is determined by the length of the lever arm on each side. It will definitely have an assymetric affect if you have different length lever arms each side. To deny this is to say that the bar is applying diffenent forces to each lever arm. The blade bar is different because the length of the lever arm on each side does not change, and the blade arm become part of the spring effect of the bar. This is quite different to a conventional tubular bar with multi-hole adjustment.

the middle of the bar is not irrelevant, the middle of the bar is the only part that twists, providing the spring effect. I don't see what point you're trying to make anyway. I'm well aware that the bar is free to twist in the centre D shackle mounts. I don't see how you could interpret what I said as thinking the bar is "locked to the chassis (or rear axle)"... how did you come up with the idea that I think the centre of the bar is locked to anything? or didn't you bother to read that post? not the angle of the linkages, the length of the lever arms that transfer the force geneated by the bar to the wheels. Although as I mentioned earlier, having each linkage at a diffeent angle (ie in a different hole) might also pre-load the bar, depending on the application. But don't get hung up on that, its likely to be muh less of an issue than the assymetric effect your introducing by having unequal length lever arms on each side when using different holes on each side. forget the blade type adjustable sway bar, it is totally irellevant to the 3 hole adjustable bars that this thread is about, as I explained above. And name dropping doesn't make you guys right...

a sway bar is basically a torsion bar operated by the arms at either end. It is only the middle part of the bar that actually twists and provides the torsion bar (or spring) effect. the arms do not. The length of each arm is critical to the wheel rate at each side. The centre torsion part of the bar does not magically know that it is set up different on each side and the same force will be applied equally (and oppositely) to each arm. The rate at each wheel is determined by the length of the lever arm on each side. definitely assymetric affect, fool. The blade bar is different because the length of the lever arm on each side does not change.

V8 Supercars don't use blade arms on both ends, fitted onto a splined torsion bar? if you make changes on one side of the bar, it will have an assymetric (sp?) affect to the cars handling. ie it will behave differently on right and left hand corners. you also run the risk of preloading the bar (but this will depend entirely on the application) which will also cause an assymetric affect .

The important part of the swaybar that determines its (spring) rate is the length of the leverage arm from the chassis mounting point to the end of the arm mounting point. If you adjust one side at a time, that will leave you with different rates on each side, which is probably not what most people are after, although it can be used to make allowances for a crossweight problem that cannot be rectified. on my Datsun 1200 coupe IPRA car, my rear bar is adjusted by moving the attachment points on the diff (they're affixed with a U bolt arrangement) inwards or outwards. This has a dramatic effect on the balance of the car. If it was the length of the bar from one end of one arm to the other that mattered, the rate would not be affected by changing the mounting points on the diff housing. a bar with 3 holes per arm has 3 settings, not 5.

Hey Alfadog, I'll definitely come along to check out your C110. Unfortunately my R32 is out of action until a new TPS arrives from Japan, so I'll have to bring the Patrol . If only the R30 was registered... Harry

I had an R32 GTR wheel in my 89 R31 Exec. the indicators didn't cancel themselves - that may have just been because the stupid plastic bits had worn down - I can't remember now. But it never bothered me because the same thing had happened to the standard wheel anyway, so I was used to cancelling the indicators myself.

cool! should be a good weekend. We haven't arranged accomodation yet, so yeah, let us know what your plans are. I'm assuming you guys are competing? I'll probably get my arse kicked, but it will be interesting to compare times with similar cars anyway.

competing I ran there in 2003 in my 1200 and had a ball. Its a 2 day event - Dec 3 and 4. Saturday is the Conrod Supersprint - 2 cars at a time starting just before the dip in Conrod, through the Chase and Murray's corner onto the pit straight, finishing on the start/finish line. Good fun. You can even choose who you line up with if you want. Racing is permitted. Expect to top 240 before the Chase - you'd be faster with more power than my mild GTR. Sunday is the Mountain Straight Hillclimb. I'm not sure on the start finish points for that because in '03 we did the Esses Hillclimb. But it will include part of mountain straight, the cutting and probably finish just before McPhillamy Pk which they use as a regroup area. The track is so smooth and grippy its incredible. Nothing like anything we have here in SEQ. And its just a huge buzz running on parts of the track that you've grown up watching every year... Bathurst Light Car Club for more info. There's not much on their Website about it, but give them a call or email. I think its $110 entry per day. At this stage myself and a mate are towing our cars down there, and there's another 2 "maybes". The more the merrier if you can make it - feel free to join the convoy. We're planning on taking 2 days to drive down there - the Thurs and Friday. It can easily be done in 1 day, but this just allows some breathing room if someone gets a flat or whatever. And it will allow us to do some 'recce' of the track on Friday arvo Probably drive straight through on the way home on Monday.

Looks good Russel. Love the R34 wheels, and very jealous of your power - mine is basically standard from what I can tell, just with pods and exhaust and coilovers. I'll be concerntrating on suspension geometry before I worry about more power. I might have to see if I can make it to this Nov 30 track day - I think I saw a thread about that in the QLD section. But I'm planning on running at the Bathurst Speed Weekend the following week, so I probably won't compete - just come and check out the cars and have a chat. Harry

I've been a regular at Mt Cotton for a few years now in my heavily modified 2litre Datsun 1200 coupe, which ran low 48's (about a second away from the class record). Anyway, I bought an R32 GTR about a month ago to hillclimb and sprint, and took it to this practice day last weekend. Pouring rain, but the car was pretty good. There's a couple of tiny little pics of it from the MtCotton pratice day here. I think GTR's are pretty well suited to the track. Mt Cotton is all about power and gearing, and the GTR has both pretty well right for the place. And they don't suffer from the understeer problems the constant awd cars it will be competing against have, so it should have a bit of an advantage in the handling stakes too. I can't wait to give those Subarus a hurry up next year in the Hillclimb Series! I'll keep an eye out for you there jmac! hey giant, a 46.5 is pretty damn good for only your 2nd run! What car was that in?

stagefumer11, painting and prep is sort of hard to cover just in words on a forum, but here goes... - these old Dattos are all painted in enamel. Acrylic is the best option for a home respray, which unfortunately means you have to prime the whole car before you can paint new top coats. Can't spray acrylic straight on enamel. - start by doing any repairs needed - rust, dents, stone chips. - wherever you are using filler, its best to do it on bare metal rather than paint. - cracks or crazing in the existing paint, means those panels really need to go back to metal too. You can be bodgy and use spray putty to fill them, but you'll be seeing them again before too long and that'll be the end of your nice new paint job. - use spray putty or spot putty (aka blade putty) to fill stone chips. both of these products must only be applied over paint or primer - never on bare metal or directly on filler. - allow any filler time to properly cure before spraying a primer over them, otherwise the thinners in the primer will cause the filler to recede, leaving tell-tale outlines through the top coats. this may not happen for up to a day after you paint the primer on the filler. - any primer can be applied to bare metal, you do not need etch primer. - I only ever use one step primer (aka hi-fill or hi-build primer). It can be used to fill minor imperfections missed when you were doing repairs. Its useful over filler for smoothing the join between filler and the existing paint that was around the repair. It can be used straight with a putty gun, or thinned to the desired consistency for use in a conventional spray gun, and can thinned down enough to just perform as a normal primer over the rest of the enamel paint. - concentrate on the repair sections first. do the repair, filling, and sanding, then prime, guide coat and wet rub. repeat until you are happy with all the repairs. - filler is pourous (sp?). it absorbs water. always dry sand it, never allow water anywhere near it. - guide coats are your friend. a light mist of black acrylic (from a aeresol can is fine) over the repair when you think its getting close to being right, then sand lightly with a good size block. You will see where the high and low areas of your repair are. More filler may be required, or if its really close, spray putty can be used for minor finishing touches to a repair. Then prime when you really think its right with the one step primer, guide coat and sand with 600 wet and dry to see. pay particular attention to the border of the repair and existing paint. One step primer is great for this problem area. - when you are happy with all the repairs, scuff the existing enamel paint with 400 wet and dry before priming the whole car. - if you are careful, you can sucessfully mask off windscreens and stuff, but all easily removeable parts - door handles, locks, lights, body mouldings, grill etc should be removed. Get narrow masking tape for edging stuff, and a medium width tape for masking with paper, and a big motha wide tape is very handy too. Masking edges is tedious, but it needs to be done carefully to get a good finish. use your thumb nail to make sure the edge is nice. do not leave masking tape on for more than 1 week. and if it gets wet or is out in the sun for more than a day, remove it and re-apply - trust me. that's all I can think of for now, but I'm sure I've missed heaps of stuff. happy sanding!

and she probably doesn't even know they're special... what a waste...

I got her running again When I unplugged the CAS from the loom to fix the wiring that burnt through, I must have damaged the wires into the plug - it really didn't want to come undone... anyway, after alot of messing around, I repaired that this arvo and she fired straight up took it for another quick spin around the block and blew absolutely no smoke this time, except some black smoke at about 5000rpm in 2nd gear at full noise. It doesn't idle very smooth, but I still have the AFM just loosely connected, and god knows when it last had a set of plugs! I've give it a full service on Sunday, change all fluids & filters, plugs, test the leads etc. Now all it really needs is some seatbelts, tyres, and a few bulbs to get into roadworthy condition, but it might be a few weeks before I have a chance to get any of that done between work and other commitments. But its really close now, and everything is working as it should again, so I'm pretty happy atm . Seems to go better than i remembered too, but maybe that's just because I'm used to driving the diesel patrol all the time now :lol:

thanks Abo Bob. I think I'll keep it the way it is - without the badges. They can always go back on later. Adam, yours is looking good too. lurve the front bar! 0HR-30T, thanks for clearing it up about the badges. My ES has manual windows, power mirrors that don't work, rear wiper, electronically adjustable shocks that also don't work, but are thankfully stuck on the hard setting I've had no luck getting it going again this morning. fixed the wiring that burnt through on the exhaust, but still won't start. Hopefully it didn't fry anything serious when it shorted out It only burnt through the outer wire that spirals around the 3 core wires, probably to 'shield' them. There a section of that spiral sheild about an inch long missing now, but I doubt that's the problem preventing it form starting. Still has no spark. I'll have another look at it later on.

mine won't be off the road much longer its got 215/55*16 on there now, I'll be going to 225/50 - a nice common/cheap size. its low enough for me already - can't get a bloody trolley jack under there as it is! besides, its just a bit of a fun street car - I have this car for the real fun!

thanks guys, I'm pretty happy with how it turned out. yeah did it myself under the house. Its not as dodgy as it sounds - use a tack cloth between coats to pick up anything that may have landed on it. And I wet down the floor and walls to lay the dust before painting, and try to pick a still day. I've painted 4 cars now over the last 8 years, and everytime I say "this is the last time!". But it just saves sooo much money! I like the iron mask front on yours rsx84. I reckon that looks heaps tougher. Mine just looks like a plain jane MR30 at the front. oh well... someone was talking about front bars a while ago here. That would make it look a bit more agressive. I might have to try and dig up that thread - there'd be more room for an intercooler too which is one of the first things I want, along with exhaust and a few pounds more boost. what were they thinking with 4psi??? Mine had a SKYLINE badges on the left side of the boot and TURBO ES badges on the right side. Were there any differences in trim or spec between ES and EX models? I think I've heard here that the ES was supposed to be lighter, but that's about as much as I know!