autech_axis

$9,000 in legal fees to recover $26,000. Me happy? Not. No - not going near another import. Besides with the Yen not far off half what it was when I bought the car, the numbers don't add up any more. Plenty of local bargains to be had right now.

Well folks, after 18 months of waiting, to no avail, and a protracted legal battle, settlement has been reached and most of my losses recouped. My 2004 NM35 Axis with VQ25DET motor was exchanged for a cash settlement with the RAWS shop who gave me the wrong advice about compliance. There's still no sign of this motor being able to meet the ADR specifications, and this whole farce has been a monumental waste of my time, and a good deal of my money. I believe Muz's case is now being handled by my lawyers, and I wish him every success in achieving a satisfactory outcome. If only the RAWS shop had done the right thing and bought the car off me in the first instance that a claim was made, they would have saved them and me a lot of money in legals. The terms of the settlement include a gag order, so don't ask me to name and shame. Cheers and farewell to all. Matthew

Muz, DON'T FEED THE TROLLS (F#$%WITS THO THEY MAY BE).

Muz, Please don't dignify the above drivel with a response. I have reported the poster for highly offensive trolling. Matthew

Furthermore... On the page you linked to (which is a dealer's site, not auction house) the cheapest compliable M35s (i.e. not fitted with VQ25DE) would appear to be around 1.35million yen. This relates to around AUD$14,000, plus tax, plus FOB and derego charges - probably around $15,500 FOB. SO where do you get $10k from! (Hint: be very careful here, the devil is in the details - and even when you think you've done everything right, you can still get caught out. Can't we Muz...)

Prior to purchasing my 2004 Autech Axis Stagea I spend a great deal of time studying both listed cars and actual auction results. Since I have an (Australian) buyer in Kobe, I could obtain detailed reports on what the cars were actually like. I few observations:- 1. There is a tremendous variation in pricing between the many different iterations of the Stagea M35, depending on motor (some of which cannot be complied), 2WD or AWD, interior appointments, trim specification etc etc. For example, the VQ25DE cannot be complied here (doesn't meet the SEVS criteria for power/weight). 2. There is tremendous variation in condition of vehicles, much of which does not show up in photos. You need to see the engineer's reports (and again these can vary very widely) and preferably have a buyer inspect the car prior to auction. Do you know how to read an engineer's report? If I were you I'd be looking at a late 2003 model M35 with AWD, VQ25DET, leather interior, high level of spec (TV, satnav etc - some of which can be made to work here). A highly specced car in Grade 4/5 condition can go for almost twice the price of a 'pov pak' roughie - but they all look the same in photos. The top of the line Axis and AR-X models will definitely set you back up to $20k by the time you've paid the FOB fee and sales tax in Japan (I paid 1.85 million yen when it was at 107 to the AUD$). Shipped and complied here around $30k. If you think you can put an M35 on the road here for $18k it would have to be very poorly specced and probably quite rough - but then sometimes you can get lucky at auction. However, the cost of shipping and compliance is NOT proportional to the FOB cost, in the way that GST and duty are. These are the only components of the total cost of the vehicle that get cheaper when you buy a less expensive vehicle at auction. Therefore my advice is to buy the best possible car that you can - leave the cheapies to the dealers who love to buy real cheap and real rough for a quick 'do-up-and-flog' "street machine" that finds its way into the yard ready for some poor sucker to lap up.

Would you like to buy mine? You can have it for what I paid for it - I'll pay the freight to you. As long as you don't mind waiting for compliance...

If you are able to find 'some other avenue out of this' I assure you I will very much make it worth your while, and no doubt Murray too. Please be encouraged to apply the most rigorous 'lateral thinking'

I am trying to remain positive! Although now planning to buy another car - probably a Land Rover! There would appear to be some kind of pump right where a normal towbar would attach. I think it would be tricky and expensive to fit a towbar, but - when and if I finally get to drive the car - I will take it up to the local towbar place, who make them from scratch rather than just look through a catalogue - and get their opinion. I think the Subaru Liberty / Outback wagons tow around 1500-1800 kg so I assumed the Stagea might be the same. Although without closer inspection it's impossible to tell. I don't recall seeing one on any of Nissan Japan's options lists.

You bet! When and if we get to court, this will be one of the myriad costs I will be suing them for - as well as liquidated damages such as loss of earned interest etc.

O really? How come they are such a major issue for everyone else then? If you are relying on a north Brisbane RAWS shop to sell you the evidence, you could be (like Muz and me) waiting for a very long time. If you already have the evidence I will send you my car for compliancing...

Here's a curly one... Anyone ever had a tow bar fitted to an M35? If so - what was it rated at (capacity and ball weight)? If not - anyone care to hazard a guess? Matt

Hi, Let me get this clear as, like Muz, I have been sweating on compliance for a 2004 M35 with VQ25DET for more than 6 months (car in my garage in Brisbane). You have a post 11/03 test vehicle that you are working on gaining emissions evidence for? Where is the vehicle? You are confident of a positive outcome with Vipac? If this is the case, what sort of timeframe are you looking at? regards Matthew

The VQ25DET motor fitted to the model of M35 Stagea that Muz and me own was never exported to any market outside Japan. The VQ35DE fitted to the Skyline et al was built to meet California emissions standards (in its Infiniti incarnation), and hence has no trouble meeting the ADR79 emissions standard - which I think is built around Euro III. This is why there are so many problems with this motor (VQ25DET) meeting the post 11/03 standard - so in that sense it's not the fault of the regulations. And the Japanese never intended that this car should be sold outside Japan, so you can't point the finger at them. Of course neither of us knew this when we bought the cars, and were told otherwise in writing by 'experts' who should have known better. (Def: "expert" - n. ex - a has-been, spert - a drip under pressure. Kinda sums it up. I hope they have a Merry Christmas as all hell is about to let loose in 2008.... TTFN - Matt

Emissions testing - not available for post 11/03 vehicles.

1 - there is of course 2 - yes - several times, and I will be relying on this written evidence when and if this goes to court. However, it's all very well to talk about legal action, and quite another to initiate and implement it. No one wins. Here's a summary of the estimated costs I have sent to the compliancer who gave me the negligent advice... Further to my recent emails and letters to you, I have made some enquiries into the probable costs involved with re-exporting the vehicle to Japan. Since there does not appear to be much, if any precedent, in the process, to some extent the costs detailed below are rough estimates - however, I have done my best to be as accurate as possible, as follows:- Local transport to wharf. - $70 Customs agents fees. - $150 Wharf and handling charges - $100. Sea-freight - $1600. Entry taxes and duties to Japan (if applicable - not clear if there will be any?) - unknown - say $1500 Buyer's agent's handling fees in Japan - at least $1500. Costs incurred with obtaining a 'Shaken' in Japan - $2000. Registration fees in Japan - $1000. Auction house fees in Japan - around $300. 5% Local tax payable on sale at auction. - $2000 plus... Liquidated damages incurred as a result of your failure to comply the vehicle (e.g. opportunity costs for funds transferred from deposit). ($26,000 @7.6% = $2000) My legal costs - unknown, but at least $2000. And then of course there will be your own legal fees and court costs - unknown, but at least $2000. TOTAL - at least $16,220 I would guess this vehicle would probably fetch 1.75 million Yen on the button - currently around $18,500 Therefore the amount I will be looking to recover from you if I am given no option than to instigate ligitation could be approximately:- Cost of vehicle landed in Australia - $26,715 PLUS costs to re-export and auction in Japan - $16,220 Less sale of vehicle at auction - $18,500 TOTAL - $24,435

My initial reaction to your philistine comment was unprintable, and I can only suppose that you have (1) absolutely no concept of what kind of pain Muz has been through and (2) a complete disinterest in another members trauma. You have no idea of the number of (literally) sleepless nights I have spend fretting about this problem. Get off this forum you clown and take your 'smart alec' comments with you. Both Muz and me have been the victims of incorrect and negligent advice about what can, and cannot, be complied here. Since I am currently $26,000 out of pocket, and with no sign of resolution in sight, this is a very serious problem for us both. Having investigated the likely consequences of re-exporting to Japan, this would appear not to be an option: the cost of re-exporting would most likely equal the price recovered. All of you on this board need to be aware that the import industry is still riddled with incompetence, shonkiness and downright impropriety, despite DOTARS best attempts to 'clean it up' by introducing RAWS and SEVS. This is a VERY serious problem for both Muz and me, and we both relied on the advice of RAWS shops or importers who have a duty of care to provide accurate advice. We now both own valuable cars that cannot be complied here, and although my legal advice is that the case is clear cut, the fact is we will - regardless of the outcome - end up out of pocket as a result. Now - how about an apology..?

Yep. It's all to do with build date.

No! As I have stated several times, the advice they gave me was that there would be no problem compliancing this car. They made a simple, but catastrophic, error. Their bad - not mine. I am now advised by the buyer in Japan that re-exporting to Japan could be complicated and expensive. Quite apart from the cost of sending the car back there (say $3000), the car will have to be inspected and re-registered prior to submission to auction (at least $2000), then theres the cost of the auction which is a couple of hundred dollars each entry, plus the agents fees. My best is that the costs incurred won't be far off what we achieve at auction... Trouble is he doesn't know what's involved as he's never had to do it! It sounds very complicated and very messy. Perhaps I should break it up for spares? Oh dear - this really is going to end badly for all concerned.

OK - as you should be aware, the ADRs for emissions changed from 1 Dec 2003. So far no one has been able to make the VQ25DET motor meet this ADR. Therefore my car cannot be complied. THERE IS NO EVIDENCE AVAILABLE FOR M35 STAGEA POST NOV 2003. I did not know this when I bought the car. I was told by the compliancer "any M35 Stagea can be complied". He was WRONG. He made a MISTAKE. The year model was crystal clear on the auction sheet, and photos of the build plate supplied. Therefore there was no excuse. SEVS rulings are of course irrelevant. Simply because a car appears on SEVS register does NOT mean that evidence is available for every car. This, as you would know, is down to each RAWS shop. The case is NOT unclear. My legal advice is... "Prior to the purchase of this particular vehicle you sought the advice of a person who held himself out to be an expert in the field and you sought from that person an indication as to whether or not, were you to purchase and import this vehicle, it could receive, without undue delay or complication, a certificate of compliance enabling you to register and the vehicle in this country. You were given that assurance by that person and under civil law in both NSW and QLD you had a legitimate expectation that the advice you would have been given was correct, the person who having given it was amply aware that you would be relying upon that advice in making the decision to purchase and import the vehicle. It now appears that that advice was wrong, and negligently wrong at that...." Open and shut case mate. Unless the compliancer does the right thing and buys the vehicle from me, I WILL without further notice initiate immediate proceeding against them through the courts to recover all of my losses, costs and liquidated damages incurred as a result of this negligence. Since this will probably wind up costing the compliancer (s) more than the value of the vehicle, you would think their next course of action would be obvious. Wouldn't you.

Thanks Nick - kind words and good advice that I shall heed...! All PMs answered promptly and fully! Every single day of the past six months I have had to look at this beautiful car in my garage that I can't drive. It's an unusually clean (spotless in fact) import, and presents as new. If anyone has any suggestions for what I might do with it, or would like to buy it - $26,000 and it's yours. Matthew

I was told that "ANY m35 stagea can be complied". I sent through the TAA auction sheet prior to purchasing the car. I asked several times. What more could I do? They made a mistake. Now they're going to have to pay.

Well, it's now been six months since my 2004 model M35 Autech Axis arrived on these shores - bought in the advise from a well-known compliance shop that this car could be complianced. I'm still waiting on emissions testing to be completed and no sign of any progress whatsoever. Once Murray Bain has decided what to do with his (the test) car, we will be embarking on a major 'name and shame' campaign alerting Stagea enthusiasts to the debacle caused by the unprofessional morons involved in giving the advice to Muz and me. I have given notice to the compliancer that he has 21 days to buy the car off me for what it has cost me, or else we're off to court. I will probably have to re-export the car to Japan for auction, and sue the compliancer for both my losses, liquidated damages and costs. This will be very expensive for him, and bloody inconvenient for me - but I now have no other option. It was fun being part of this forum, but as you might imagine, I have no interest in Stagea any longer. Not your fault, or the car's, just time to go do something completely different and put this saga behind me.

Tangles - your comments are not at all helpful, and I can only suggest that you read the ENTIRE thread, including information which I have posted detailing exactly how I made the decision to purchase this vehicle. You don't seem to understand the issue of liability attaching to the RAWS shop that gave me the advice in writing that this exact vehicle could be complied. Earlier in this thread I posted a transcript of the legal opinion I had from a Pitt St Lawyer - which you obviously have been too lazy to read... Now listen carefully guys... DOTARS issues an entry on the SEVS register stating which vehicles meet the criteria required to enable import. In this case the SEVS entry permits M35 Stagea with a variety of engines (including the VQ25DET) from 2001 to current. Now I realised that this does NOT means that evidence is available for each particular model - it's up to the RAW to determine which models they wish to purchase or self-engineer the evidence for, and this is obviously based on good commercial practise. Knowing this I sent repeated emails to the RAWS shop that appears on the register as having compliance for this model, including the actual auction sheet prior to purchase. The shop therefore had no excuse for advising me that the vehicle could be complied. As I have stated previously, they had responsibility for giving me the advice, and they got it wrong. Legal opinion is crystal-clear here: I should have been able to rely upon the 'expert' advice given by the shop, and therefore am entitled to seek compensation for all the losses incurred as a result. The RAWS shop has NOT (yet) offered to buy my car off me. Hopefully we won't get to that point. Finally, you do not need to use an import agent or broker to import a car under SEVS. You can do it yourself, as I have many times. I simply deal directly with a buyer in Japan, and apply for import approval to DOTARS through a RAWS shop. Thus cutting out the middle-man.

Thanks Nigel - I appreciate your offer of help. Unless you know any other RAW who is currently attempting to get emissions on 2004+ M35 with VQ25DET then there's not much to be done. For the record I don't deal with brokers, and I don't deal with dealers. I have a buyer in Kobe and deal direct with the RAWS shop. I sent them full details of the car, including the auction house sheet prior to purchase, and relied on their advice about compliance. I have several emails from them stating that the car could be complied, and it was only Chris Rogers who alerted me to the potential problem. Unfortunately at this stage the car was already on a ship...