dodgyimports

Have had no dealing with buying from Sinergy, just going to post up a few interesting facts: 1) Take a look at this black v36 coupe - according to the ad VIN is: 6U9000CKV36405081 http://www.carsales.com.au/dealer/details/Nissan-Skyline-2008/AGC-AD-14093947/?Cr=10&sdmvc=1 Grab the chassis/frame number off the end of that VIN ie. CKV36-405081 and plug it in to a part sourcing/month of production tool such as: http://www.epc-data.com Note the colour code - A54. This car should be 'Vibrant Red' - NOT black. Look up the paint code on this handy website: http://www.nissanreference.com/infinitig 2) Grey v36 coupe - according to the ad chassis/frame # would be CKV36-401081 (spooky how similar it is to the above): http://www.carsales.com.au/dealer/details/Nissan-Skyline-2007/AGC-AD-14249040/?Cr=6&sdmvc=1 This car should be QX1 'Ivory Pearl' (white), NOT grey. 3) White v35 coupe - according to the ad chassis/frame # would be CPV35-504062: http://www.carsales.com.au/dealer/details/Nissan-Skyline-2003/AGC-AD-13371614/?Cr=7&sdmvc=1 This car should be KY0 'Brilliant Silver' - NOT pearl white. 4) Silver Stagea - according to the ad chassis/frame # would be NM35-317114: http://www.carsales.com.au/dealer/details/Nissan-Stagea-2003/AGC-AD-12563859/?Cr=3&sdmvc=1 This car should be QX1 'Ivory Pearl' - NOT silver 5) Another silver Stagea - according to the ad chassis/frame # would be PNM35-700027: http://www.carsales.com.au/dealer/details/Nissan-Stagea-2004/AGC-AD-13606744/?Cr=5&sdmvc=1 This car should be B21 'Athens Blue' NOT silver - Does Sinergy expect us to believe it has 'butter-fingers' enter all of their sales Ad's for them? Really... the question that needs to be asked is: Why doesn't Sinergy provide genuine VINs when it advertises it's cars online?

my favourite is this one: www.ajeos.ru you do need to sign-up to use it properly, but sign-up is free and i've not yet run into a limit regarding number of searches per day etc... you'll be interested in the 'statistics sales' tool.

Yep - it was all an elaborate conspiracy between me and JOC to get some free advertising on a motoring forum and some money out of Joe. PS. the tooth fairly left the auction sheets under my pillow

I have checked auction sheets for all four Evo chassis #'s above and can confirm that the km's listed in brackets and where applicable on Xtreme's website are consistent with those recorded on the auction sheet. Unfortunately I could not find the auction sheet for the R32 GT-R chassis # above. I expect JOC will clear all 5 vehicles and you will all be able to see for yourself the de-reg/export papers. I am not going to post these auction sheets as I do not believe it is fair to Xtreme to have gradings debated in a public forum given there has been no mis-representation on these cars. When it comes to condition, the car is at the dealership for inspection - those interested can make their own assessment. My suggestion on the learnings that should be taken from this thread: 1) When buying an imported car from a dealer - treat every car as "guilty until proven innocent" 2) If you have high expectations and want a low km's grade 4.5 / 5A car - be realistic, look at the auction prices: it ain't going to happen at a dealer - import it yourself 3) Don't fall under the illusion that you're going to be the special person to find a "reputable/genuine" dealer (and hence can check your brain at the door) in an industry that is riddled with this cancer - chances are slim to none you'll find one. Be a skeptic every step of the way 4) Do not assume that the law, a government department or official process is protecting you from this practice, or that it will protect you after the fact 5) Look at auction price statistics for the car you're interested in and use tools on import broker websites to calculate how much it would cost to bring it in yourself. If you can't see where the dealers profit margin is, assume there is a problem with the car. Offer the dealer a price that is below what it would have cost for you to import it - if they accept, there is definately a problem with the car 6) All dealers will tell you they don't engage in such activity and import genuine cars regardless. Whether they are aware if what they are selling is genuine is another matter 7) Ask for a de-reg/export certificate and learn how to read one (there are plenty of internet resources to help). If the dealer claims they don't have it (they do) or won't give it to you - walk away. If you're still not dissuaded and have $ to spare, use a service like JOC to get a copy BEFORE you put down a deposit. Remember, depending which document you get this may only alert you to a very large windback. If the car has done very few k's since the last recorded on the certificate - be wary 8) Get an independent mechanical inspection by someone that knows the model and preferrably has some experience in smash repairs 9) A good detailer can hide a multitude of sins (and km's). Although windbacks are easy to spot at some dealers, I assure you - trying to check km's by looking at seat bolsters, steering wheel wear etc... does not work - you will be surprised I'm sure there are plenty on this forum wiser than me that could add to this list. PS. One of the chassis # is for the orange evo which is indeed complied - wow looked track-only to me, don't know how this got through!?

Wow... $80 is actually really good value considering what you receive is a piece of official government-issued documentation and a fully translation version which is likely to increase the value of your car (assuming the KM's check out legit). This can only be done IN JAPAN - which means someone has to be available in Japan to request the document from the government agency. These people have to eat. $80 on a $15,000+ investment is bloody good value. Stupid thing to post. RE: Joe - much respect to see that you are putting additional cars up for scrutiny and looking to fix the issue. I will have a more detailed response later.

I think we need to go easy on the R grade thing. For a start - in the case of the Stagline it is unclear whether it has been graded R due to there being evidence of an accident - or whether it is a case that so many of the panels have been replaced (due to the nature of the mods). In the case of the other R grade vehicles i'm willing to give Xtreme the benefit of the doubt that the vehicles have been inspected properly, any damage was not structural, and the repair job is up to professional standards. My issue is with the windback - not the grading. The only reason I went for Ed Lees on a similar R grade car in another thread is that he was stupid enough to post a YouTube video where when talking about the car he says and repeats the phrase "no accident vehicle". Anyone that thinks he can go to a dealer and buy a grade 5A car is kidding themselves. It makes no business sense for a dealer to try selling a 5A example. Of the many cars I have seen dealers selling recently (and their corresponding auction sheet) the highest grade i've seen is a 4B. Many were 3.5's. Looks like the dealer website has been amended to reflect the auction sheet km's for the R32 GT-R. As promised here is the screenshot of the dealer website prior to the correction: Interestingly the other cars seem to have remained as they were.

This is going to be a long post - so strap in folks. DO YOUR OWN HOMEWORK - AND DO IT PROPERLY, NOT A HALF-ASS JOB - FOOL. KayneX - Why would anyone want to do re-badged odometer checks via your link - a website tainted with hypocrisy? Go direct to the source to use this genuinely fantastic service. Ok - now down to business: 1) let's take a look at this Evo 7 - recently up on carsales.com.au (http://www.carsales.com.au/dealer/details/Mitsubishi-Lancer-2001/AGC-AD-14170113/?Cr=13&sdmvc=1) The car has become 'not available' - hopefully not sold! Fortunately I have a screenshot of the ad as it was on Saturday 10th August (click to view full size): Note the VIN number - it ends in 3809. You can find the same car here on the dealer website - note that the complete VIN is not posted on this website but the last 4 digits are. Website says 62,160kms 2 - let's see if we can confirm a mode of operation - last 4 digits of the VIN are always accurately represented on the dealer website. Check the blue Stagline - very unique, last 4 digits of VIN = 1286, website says 107,084kms 3 - One more before the clincher - white E51 Elgrand - VIN ends in 9204, website says 80,513kms: So we have established a clear mode of operation - now for the original vehicle and subject of this thread - VIN ends with: 7066, website says 84,702kms Someone seems pretty confident their de-reg certs will back them - how is this possible? At a guess I would refer to this post: http://www.skylinesaustralia.com/forums/topic/430241-hyprocrisys-a-bitch-aint-it-the-truth-about-kilometers/?p=6973008 100% agree on the 184,000kms but we need to define "genuine". PS. of course I have screenshots of the dealer website.

Awww it looks like someone isn't playing fair - AGAIN. oh well - it's lucky i took some screenshots (click to view full size): To their credit, thats a very quickly issued correction - respect. And at least these guy put VIN numbers on their carsales ad's - there are plenty of other dealers who post invalid VIN's or none at all - I wonder why?

No doubt many of you have read this blog article: "the Truth About Kilometers" It's a good one, I have to say it very much rings true in my own experience. You'd think that after a certain importer had a "coming to jesus" moment and before writing a great blog expose', and before reselling the services of an admittedly very useful odometer checking service - they would: "clear the decks", "make a clean sweep" etc... And so we happen upon this lovely red evo 6 TME: http://www.carsales.com.au/dealer/details/Mitsubishi-Lancer-2000/AGC-AD-13862163/?Cr=1&sdmvc=1 WTF? I have to say even I was convinced by the blog - making this all the more disappointing.

Most likely this is the case - but as far as I understand it was technically possible for the japanese buyer to order an SP and option half-leather seats. That said its somewhat unlikely that the vehicle is one of these exceptions. The only way to be certain either way is the Chassis/VIN#.

Post the chassis number of the car or PM it to me and i'll get you the details you're after. While I believe you can technically have an SP with half-leather, there are a lot of cars advertised on carsales etc... that have just flat out been incorrectly identified. It's not just the private sellers either that don't know what they're putting up for sale.

thats a pretty serious allegation considering you've brought nothing to support it. since you went to see it on Thursday you could at least give us a hint - something useful like a chassis number?

Just to clarify for everyone - what i've posted are auction sheets - NOT de-registration papers. These auction sheets are prepared by the auction house for the vehicle - hence they ONLY apply to vehicles that were bought at auction in Japan. Generally speaking they are publicly available. Dealers also regularly buy cars from other dealers in Japan that do not come via auction - hence no auction sheets are available for these cars. ALL cars that are exported from Japan however MUST be deregistered - hence dealers should always have de-reg papers for their stock. Here is a good link about de-reg documents and how to read them: http://www.japantradecar.com/info/Fraud_Warning/Why_Is_Export_Certificate_Important.aspx

The chances of the car having been woundback before the auction are pretty darn slim these days since the shaken law was introduced in Japan. I'm sure plenty of dealers like to continue to spread the myth that this is still common. Getting hold of de-reg papers is an extremely good way of protecting yourself against buying a windback. If a dealer won't even show you the original cert - assume the worst. Some cars in particular to watch out for if you're buying a v35 coupe: http://www.carsales.com.au/dealer/details/Nissan-Skyline-2003/AGC-AD-14019198/?Cr=14 http://www.carsales.com.au/dealer/details/Nissan-Skyline-2003/AGC-AD-13805725/?Cr=12 http://www.carsales.com.au/dealer/details/Nissan-Skyline-2003/AGC-AD-13973735/?Cr=5 lost a nice set of wheels on the way over just in case you thought i forgot about Sydney dealers - well so many of the cars have been sitting on the lot for such a long time who knows what's happened to them? but since somebody already volunteered them - there is this v36 to remind us not to be complacent http://www.carsales.com.au/dealer/details/Nissan-Skyline-2007/AGC-AD-13569125/?Cr=0 Best of luck.

People will always want to find a bargain - it's human nature. This doesn't excuse a dealer's dodgy tactics - watch the youtube clip where the dealer says at least twice in reference to the car "accident free". It's one thing for a car dealer to omit information about a car unless specifically asked - it is entirely different for them to flat out lie. Anyway I think this thread has gone on a bit of a tangent (albeit very cool tangent) since Jonah is looking for a GTR he can use as a daily. I would still recommend using a reputable importer like some mentioned in this thread, as you can be sure you will have full visibility and proper paperwork so that you don't get roped into scams like this.

Not very far for vehicles that come via auction. Some dealers generally don't buy at auction tho and in a few cases I can go back significantly further. PM me your VIN/chassis # plus who you bought it through and i'll have a go. That said its highly unlikely I can find anything that isn't freshly imported. If you're happy to part with a bit of cash tho you can use the excellent services of JOC: http://www.ebay.co.uk/sch/i.html?_ipg=&_from=&_nkw=&_armrs=1&_ssn=japaneseoc Assuming your vehicle was imported after the 'shaken' registration process was introduced in Japan JOC will be able to provide you with an official japanese government document with dated recorded odometer readings at registration intervals when the vehicle was in Japan.

You could do that but then again, theres a chance you're buying a car that Ed Lees / other dodgy dealer imported years back which has been similarly mis-treated. Employing the services of an import broker is not a bad approach if you're prepared to wait for the right car.

Hi Jonah12, Some important info for you. According to the link you provided the chassis no. of the car is: BNR32307265 This car was sold at auction on the 4th of April. Here is the auction sheet: "MINT MINT MINT" indeed... Grade RA. Take note of the asterisk next to the recorded kilometres also. For those interested the sold price was 394,000 yen. Others in this thread were wise to give a warning.

This was my favourite part - LOL. Needs an asterisk: *** except for the odometers which tend to travel through a time machine.

You showed him what??? No doubt he'll find his way to this post - putting us all in the spotlight, very clever. Sounds like he played dumb a lot better than you did. He got some handy information on who he should keep an eye on.

Most likely it happens when the car is in "no-mans land" - the Australian dealer pays the exporter for the car and requests the new mileage, the japanese exporter gets a de-registration/export certificate for the car, still with original mileage. after this official document has been issued they get the odometer changed, just prior to the vehicle being shipped. so when the car arrives in Australia it magically has a different number!

Images and documents have been re-hosted to protect their origin - happy to confirm the origin of the originals via PM from community members of good standing. http://www.tradingpost.com.au/Automotive/Used-Cars/AdNumber=D1028602536543 Only 64,077 km's!!! Here are the same photos - taken 'in the light-tube timemachine' by an exporter in Tokyo, Japan: Full collection of Tokyo photo's per the trading-post ad plus a few extra that didn't make it: Confirming the chassis # matches should be pretty simple if someone is to visit/call the dealer.