R_34
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Posts posted by R_34
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Not so much in twin form.
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I drilled and welded a bung on the oem oil filter bracket to install the sensor.
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Looks like copper colored, it's amagnetic so a magnet won't do anything about them.
If you kept the old oil, you still can do an used oil analysis that will tell you what's going on but with the shape and color of the parts we see, it's most likely the bottom end which is going.
If you get rid of the oil you'll need to run the fresh oil for 3000 km before doing an oil analysis.
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I don't know about R32 gtst stability at high speed, they're not common where I live.
My S13 is standard aero wise and I don't have any stability problem even close to the limiter in fifth. And 230rwkw is still a low power, no need to go rice in order to makes it stick to the road.
Sticky tire, good bushings, good alignement and you'll be fine.
HKS2540 is a GT2876R which not a good turbo, too mismatched between compressor and turbine. The GT-RS is an GT2871 trim 52. Not a bad turbo but the GTX2863R is a better choice as it will make similar power with better response. You need to see it as a reworked hks 2535. A bit big for a 20 for street fun, but you can live with it i guess.
2867 is a reworked hks 2540, it's a better turbo overall but you can only get the full potential of the compressor with a big housing. It's fine for an efficient motor that spool turbo well, not suited for an RB20 IMO.
And too big turbo is something very relative, some people complain when the engine is not making torque off idle while some find that a turbo spooling à 6000rpm is perfectly fine for the streets.
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I swapped my S13 with a rb20.
Usual bolt-on (fmic exhaust, bigger injectors), STD S13 airbox, Z32 maf, kinugawa highflow, and a short runners FFP.
The engine has no torque below 3800rpm and is a bitch to drive on the streets unless you rape it. Fortunately the engine loves it.
I enjoy it and love it as long as I'm leaning on it as hard as I can, as soon as I want to just move the car in traffic or cruise, the engine is shit. So for a daily drive, stay away of biggish turbo, don't go any bigger than a disco potatoe or an hks2530 (around the 230 rwkw mark), and avoid at any cost short runners intake manifold.
It's perfectly fine on track, i never suffer from the lack of torque down low, you just need to drive the way it needs to be driven : like a VTEC engine.
I was given the opportunity to ride a RB20 with STD plenum and a kinugawa TD05-18g 8cm². The engine is much more enjoyable on the streets and pulls correctly from 3000rpm. Still a little down in terms of torque but the engine is perfectly livable contrary to mine. The difference between the setup are not much : this one has the STD intake manifold, a freer flow filter and exhaust, and the smaller turbo, but in terms of performance feelings on the roads it's millions miles away. My engine is just more alive in the lasts 2000rpm before the limiter or so.
A friend of mine has an R32 GTR with hks 2510 running à 1.2b of boost. The engine is much more responsive and linear but you only feels the power when he gets in fourth. Before the engine pulls, but it's not that powerfull. Nicer to drive off boost by a f**king lot, and only impressive beyond 200kph as the air drag doesn't seem to have an effect on it. But the car is much more heavy, less fun but more efficient.
So it really depends on what you want in terms of power delivery, chassis behaving...and money.
If you don't have tons of cash, a mild rb20 is perfectly fine for streets or track, love to be abused, is reliable (at least mine is) and is installed in a relatively light chassis. Moderate costs to maintain it, doesn't draw too much fuel and you don't need big tires/expensive brakes pads/rotors etc... Just go mild on the mods because it's still only a 2L engine.
If cost is no object, buy a GTR and go mad with it. Better engine, better chassis, extensive aftermarket support as long as your wallet allows it and more JDM points. Fantastic car but you need to have big balls and skills to get the most of it.
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Yep but still too thick at high temps to my tastes, 60wt is useful when hitting above 130°C as it has the viscosity of a 40wt oil at 100°C give or take.
I think that my cooling system is barely enough to sustain track sessions above 30°C, below that it seems to be OK.
I can't really go bigger than 19 row where the oil cooler is located. But I sure can enlarge the air intake and fabricate ducting to channel the air through the radiator.
@Rolls
It's not the volume in itself but the oil quantity that disminish when going thicker.
So if we go too thick we may change the lubrication mode annihilating any benefit that a better oil film strength could bring.
At least that's what I witnessed on the tests I had to do.
@mrskidz
yes the VI is quite impressive over what valvoline propose on their oil.
I may give it a go to see how it perform.I find valvoline oil to be on the weak side in terme of viscosity stability over time/kilometers. It really broke down as time passes and usually in the UOA the oil has gone almost 10 wt thinner in 5000k's.
But I don't have results with other brands yet.
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No I never tested motul oil as its quite expensive here. I could buy twice as many valvoline than motul.
The VI rating is interesting for the 5w40 viscosity, it should be more stable at high temperature than the valvoline and maybe in the long run.
But the TBN seems rather low, I don't run ethanol so acidic attacks of the oil is not yet a problem but I'm not too confident. I was already not too confident with the TBN of the valvoline oils which are in the low 10. lol
I've never asked the TBN rating of used oil on the analysis I made so I don't know how my engine "deplete" the oil, maybe I should to know if the 300V is a good alternative or not.
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120°C is my limit, once I hit this temperature I do a lap cooldown and I exit the track for a while.
New trackday today with the same 5w40 oil that did the previous trackday. The oil as thinned out quite a bit during the day, but it had around 4000 km and one trackday already. The morning was wet so I could'nt go all out on the engine until late morning. The pressure were on par with the previous trackday and temperature were between 90/100°C.
On the afternoon the track was finally totally dry and I bashed the engine as much as I could. I didn't see 120°C, the air temprature was cool enough to stay in my comfortable zone. On the longests run (~25min) I barely see 115°C. Tires are the weak point now.
But the pressure were lower and lower as the day passes and didn't go past 4.5b during the last session around the 110°C mark.
The OCT didn't catched anything this time, so my theory as going too thick on viscosity maybe a problem with the oil flooding of the head.
It seems that I really need a light 40 or heavy 30 wt oil to have sufficient pressure and no oil spilling.
Well it still a recent problem to me, and I only encountered oil spilling once. But it seems that too high viscosity is not good for my engine at least.
Given how the trackday went today I might go for an other run with the 5w40 but maybe an other brand.
10w60 seems way too thick given my experience. The problem with too thick oil is the thicker it is, the less oil is entering the engine.
So the film strength is better but there is less oil to build that wall so all in all I'm not sure that its a good idea, and less oil alos mean less cooling of the bearings and pistons.
I'm an engine bench operator and I have made some test bench of different oil viscosities on one prototype engine. Oil flow entering the engine when going thicker oil reduces dramatically and when at high revs camshaft and crankshaft bearing temperature were a good 30°C higher with the thicker oil meaning that the lubrication was not so good.
In fact it was so bad in terms of bearings temperature that we couldn't do the tests we wanted to do anymore as we hit the max temprature we were allowed.
Because of this I just want to run the thinnest oil that give good pressure on all the rev range when at maximum temperature. 5w40 is meeting this but oil spilling was my concern when running it.
I wonder if castrol is giving viscosities of their oil on their website.
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The oil change is approaching and I'm a stuck between two viscosities to choose right now for my RB20.
My car is an 180sx with an unopened RB20DET in it with basic bolt-on : FMIC, 3" downpipe, apex'i 3.5" catback, kinugawa RB25 highflow running 0.9b, custom FFP, 450cc injectors, standard S13 airbox with STD filter in it, tuned with nistune and 8200rpm rev limit.
Cooling wise engine is equipped with a 19 row oil cooler and a full copper 32mm thick water radiator with the viscous fan.
RB26 oil pump on STD collar, RB20 water pump.
Still more a road toy than a track toy but the car is more and more track oriented as the time goes.
I was running valvoline synpower 5w30 last year, did a track day where the oil was hitting 120°C after around 8 or 10 laps of a 3.2 km track, the thinning was severe as I saw oil pressure dropping around the 3b anything over 5000rpm up to the rev limit.
On the road the oil was barely hitting 100°C during engine bashing but the pressure remained stable, on normal driving it hit 85/90°C.
I never saw a drop of oil in the OCT even after the track day, it remained empty.
Because of the oil pressure problems I switched to Synpower 5w40 and did an UOA of the 5w30 oil to see if I damaged the bottom end. Tin, lead and copper concentrations where near 0 so the bottom end didn't suffered at all from oil starvation, if there was any, but chromium and iron where sky high compared to the first UOA I did on this engine after road usage only. Given the trashing it went through I didn't paid too much attention. The engine is still starting fine, and there is no wear on the cams or lifters.
With the 5w40 on the road I lost some temperature, I get 80/85°C, 95°C when trashing it.
On an other track day on a different track which is not too different from the first track just a little longer (3.5 km), I couldn't get the oil to 120°C but the air temperature was a little slower than the last one.
The OCT catched around 150 mL of oil during that day. The engine never spilled a drop of oil before on the road with this viscosity or the 5w30 even on the track. But with the 5w40 I got 150 mL of oil for 260 km of track driving. Pressure wise it was fine, between 4b and the oil pump by pass pressure around 6b from 3500 rpm and up.
I will make an other UOA to see if internal wise there is a gain to switch from the 5w30 to the 5w40 but I'm not sure on which viscosity I should get for hot weather/track condition.
Winter is coming in europe so the 5w30 is the way to go, but next year when I'll get back on track I'm leaning toward 5w30 viscosity but with better thermal caracteristics or a lighter 5w40.
For information the viscosities of the 5w30 :
11.9mm²/s at 100°C
68mm²/s at 40°C
Viscosity index : 171
The 5w40 ones :
13.9mm²/s at 100°C
85mm²/s at 40°C
Viscosity index : 169
Any advice or specific oil that could suits the engine needs ?
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Yes it's called the QRB (Quick Return Bonus).
The faster your return the WU the bigger is the multiplier applied to the credit of the WU.
I don't know the formula used and if there is an other formula used for the CPU client but the QRB really inflate the PPD.
Any tiny bit more gpu speed yields great ppd gain.
I fold with an old GTX470, and getting it from 810 Mhz to 830 Mhz increase the PPD from 33k to 40k.To get the QRB you need a passkey and complete at least 10 WU without crash and before it's preferred deadline.
If you go mental and your gpu/cpu is not stable enough/return bad WU the bonus will be deactivated though.
Getting over 300k with one gpu mean you're folding with a GTX780ti or better/newer.
Folding with the CPU is good, even if it's not as rewarded as the gpu, it's still important to make it fold.
The last gpu client need a full core to feed the gpu so if you run a cpu client don't be surprised to see that the client is using on less core than your CPU has.
On a Q6600 the smp client only use three core, and on my 2600k it use 7 cores.
You still can force the client to run on all the core, but you just slow down the GPU, and the CPU client do not gain much point, so let the V7 client decide by itself how to attribute the number of threads.
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This is the gasket where the runner meet the head that need to be changed not only the upper part of the plenum.
Once the runners off you'll have all the space needed to fix your oil leak too.
Os for the hoses yes it's right the way it's is plumbed. This is the idle/fast idle air circuit.
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If you do not have the problem without the upper hose, it means that the coolant circuit is not bleeded properly so you can't run it like that.
If you do it anyway, the gasket could broke entirely and you risk a hydrolock and/or an overheating of the engine because of the non bleeded coolant circuit.
So no it's not really a good idea to run it like that.
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Well with the top pipe removed you don't feed water to the "water rail" on the top of the runners, so it seems that the intake manifold gasket is leaking. Pretty badly I'd say if making the water flowing in the bloc/head is sufficient to fill the cylinder.
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Headgasket or intake manifold gasket leaking.
I can't see any other source of water.
Does the water get in as soon as you pour water in the coolant system ? Or you need to run the engine/warm it up ?
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I was right, here are some pics to show where the 2 hoses on the plenum goes to :
https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-o4GcAJD3tKOF4Sd9FHSduNvLRZtJk3sGAtUWo45dBM=w1284-h963-no
The lower hone goes behind the thermostat :
https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/1SGo0MHKbNVf51jdJ76zt9E7m5vi6cT0RCmLAccmozI=w1284-h963-no
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The upper one on the plenum goes to the nipple where the plenum meet the head right at the upper right of the cylinder one runner.
The lower one goes to the water pump if my memory serves me right. I need to check that on the pics I got. Will confirm this later.
The little pipe on the pressure regulator need to be plugged into the plenum. There is apparently to type of fuel rail on the rb20, one with only one fuel pressure régulator at the exit, and a second one with one at the entry and a second at the exit.
Both need to be pressure referenced to the plenum.
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Ok, i'm running 98 RON and 95RON is sufficient, you won't have problems IMHO.
So true for the imperial system, I wonder how science is teached in the US with such a unit system.
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Which octane scale ?
RON or R+M/2 ?
On stock ECU/stock tune I've never encountered knock even at 15psi/1b with maxxed injectors and 14+ AFR right before the rev limiter.
And on the initial tuning the tuner added so much advance that the turbo was making 0.3b less boost without touching the actuator or the EBC, so the stock tune is extremely conservative.
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Mine is a 10cm², and it holds boost perfectly all the way to the rev limiter à 8200rpm when I was running 19psi.
I backed off because of the EBC and the gearbox which didn't liked the "high" boost.
Positive pressure begin in the low 2K but the turbo is lazy to gain boost and doesn't hit 0.5b before 3000 rpm with the ebc and 3500 without.
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This is the cropped GT30 turbine wheel not the real gt30 one.
It may perform anyway as the compressors is not that big.
I have the kinugawa version with much bigger turbine (garrett stage 3 wheel which is 65mm at the inducer), and a 20g compressor (52.5/68mm wheel).
With an EBC in good working order I was able to get 19 psi/1.3b at 4000rpm, without EBC I only get 14psi/0.9b at the same rpm and the engine doesn't relly wake up before 3500/3800rpm with a front facing plenum.
It was able to give 198rwkw/320 Nm at this boost through a standard S13 airbox and paper filter in it, FMIC, front facing plenum and 3 inch turboback.
This mambatek will spool fairly quicker maybe not as quick as you'd want, power wise I've no ideas but it will be able to break the 250 rwkw I guess.
In the same range of size sonic performance offers bolt-ons solutions based on the GT2860RS and GTX2860/2863/2867 but it ain't cheap.
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I had some misfire problem under load, I swapped the ignitor for a newer one. It didn't solved the problem but the engine revved a little better on sudden throttle opening from idle.
I found out later that I had at least two coilpack coocked, the varnish on it had burned. In the meantime I tried to improve the ground of the coilpack loom and the igniter without success.
I just replaced the 6 coilpack by RB25 S2 superforma coilpack (a UK brand), wiring specialtes rb25 S2 coilpack loom, deleted the igniter and the problem disappeared.
As GTSboy mentioned it earlier, compresion test and leakdown test will give you indication on how healthy the engine is, and if not, what's worned/damaged but try to eliminate ignition related problems first.
Begin by 6 brand new bcpr5 ou 6es plug depending of the mods on your engine.
Check physically all the coilpacks, and check the primary and secondary resistance of the coilpack as explained in the factory service manual of the R32 (you can find it on the net).
Remove the rubber insulator and check if the spring are still here, and if the little piece of graphite at the end of the spring is still here and in good shape. You can try to elongate a little the spring to guarantee the contact with the plug. On the late RB20 the little piece of graphite was removed and a longer spring is used in place.Check the coilpack loom, they're quite old now and very brittle.
The connectors break down easily, and the wiring can rust internally. Form the outside you can't see anything but once you remove the insulation of the wires you can see that the wires are greenish instead of the copper color. Check the quality of the ground of the coilpack onto the coilpack brancket and the engine itself. You must have continuity.
Check when the engine is running if you have a steady power supply to feed the coilpack (more than 12V).
If all of the above turns-out to be OK it might not be ignition related. Still it's better to change the coilpack and loom for brand new one, and possibly for S2 (w/o igniter).
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200SX EUDM swapped S13
RB20DET STD internals
S13 airbox modded to fit a Z32 MAF and with the R32 GTS-T air inlet which is about 33% percent larger than the S13 one and a paper filter in it
Custom forward facin plenum made by an australian drifter with very short runners and no stack
Kinugawa highflow RB25 turbo (garrett stage 3 wheel and cast 20g compressor wheel)
Stock exhaust manifold
3" down pipe Clarkson fitted to avoid the steering column
3" resonator to 3.5" catback (apex'i hybrid megaphone)
Chinese FMIC
Deatschwerk 440cc injectors (flow matched @458cc)
Nistune on STD ECU
14psi/0.95b peak on the actuator
PULP 98
Very tired gearbox
My Z32 maf died on me the morning I had to put it on the dyno, I made 40 km on limp home borrowed a mate's MAF and went to the dyno 200km away. With his MAF I run richer and felt a slight decrease in power up top.
Final result :
197 rwkw/ 221fwkw
320 Nm.
The engine is not knock limited, in fact there is no knock limit at this boost, I only lose power with more timing. I suspect the engine can't breathe efficiently enough to put more kw to the wheels.
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Yes soft hammer will help.
Heat it or try to cool the crankshaft with some freezer spray while your push it from behind with two flat screwrider if the soft hammer isn't enough.
If you really can't remove it, you'll have to cut deep into it preferably inline with the key and shock it with a hammer and a chisel. It will make it loose enough to pull it.
But you'll have to buy an other one obviously.
Rb20 Det Discussions And Questions
in Forced Induction Performance
Posted
Got one in my S13, only around 300hp and I beat the shit out of it. It is fun to drive as long as I keep it over 4500 rpm because I got a kinugawa highflow which is a turbo a bit too big for the 20. It is more suited to the 25. This plus a PNT intake manifold which has very short runners.
Almost unbreakable like said before, I got on trackday with only 3.5b of oil pressure between 5000 et 8000 rpm when the oil was à 120°C+ and it didn't break a sweat, no water overheating, lot of revs and it still asks for more. I enjoy it a lot on track but it's a bitch to drive at low speed around city, and is barely OK on the roads. It only begin to be fun when on the highway.
That's why I retrofitted the rb25 intake cam and pulley and made a custom oil bleeding, the system is not actuated by the ECU and not tuned for it right now but the engine breathe much better in the 2500/6000 rpm band. Before 2500rpm I don't see any changes in torque or spool. After 6000rpm the torque drop quite badly. The turbo comes on full song around 500rpm sooner but my boost is pretty low, I expect more gains of it when I'll boost it up. More importantly the engine is nice to drive, still a bit low on torque for city driving but that's acceptable.
NVCS is really what the rb20 lack over the 25.
So far the only problem I got with it were coilpacks replaced for aftermarket ones, and a shortage between the alternator output and it's aluminium housing that fried the terminal and a small length of the output wire. Nothing that a crimping tool and a new terminal can repair.