Full-Race Geoff
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Posts posted by Full-Race Geoff
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On 7/8/2021 at 7:08 PM, iruvyouskyrine said:
Anyone heard anything good bad or otherwise about G25 internal gate stuff
Ive been very impressed with the G25 IWG. Its essentially a higher flowing "bigger" turbo than GTX2860. it has lower turbine wheel inertia and improved bearings. so I'd expect overall time to torque and transient response to be comparable to the GTX2867 with higher efficiency across the board
On 7/9/2021 at 7:50 AM, iruvyouskyrine said:new shiny G series and V band would be nice, i just get the feeling that even the 550 is going to be slightly too big for my goals.
if youre getting a new vband manifold, the 0.72 iwg is a great setup. i'd probably take that gamble. but understandably it may be larger than you're looking for to save the 6 speed
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2.5L STI, 8474 (gray line) vs 8374 (purple and white lines) both 1.05 a/r on full race kit
you can see the 8474 lost a small amount in the midrange, but gains it back and then some at 5000+rpm. definitely a bigger turbo but overall may be worth the compromise if wanting more airflow than the 8374 can support
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2 hours ago, BakemonoRicer said:
I strongly believe the "casting issue" turbos are bought at a discount from BW and sold on for same price by the suppliers. My 7670 from GCG has no issue whatsoever.
1 hour ago, BakemonoRicer said:given the fact its well known some suppliers have more issues than others......
sorry but no, BW doesnt discount. and the suppliers get whatever bw sends us
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On 6/22/2021 at 9:16 AM, cachorro said:
Contemplating a 8374 1.05 vs. a 9174 1.05 on a built RB26. I will be running a Step 1 HKS 272 cam. What spool difference can I expect between both turbos?
which manifold and wastegate config are you considering? If divided manifold and dual gates, theres ~300rpm spool difference from 8374 to 9174.
as a reference point, one of my customers recently switched from 8374 1.05 to g35-1050 1.06 to 8474 1.05 on his 2.5L subaru sti track car. 8474 was almost identical spool to 8374 and it was a surprise to me
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On 6/10/2021 at 12:34 PM, mugiwara no luffy said:
A friend of mine pioneered the Japanese tuners to stop using 90’s era t88s, gt-rs,and t51r’s back when the efr series started getting popular. Efr turbo’ed GTR’s were smashing the big turbo guys like me at Fuji so I figured I’d make the switch too. Just hard to find a quality tuner here in the states... i bought the install package but didn’t come with the bolts to connect the super core to the exhaust housing any ideas what those bolt sizes are?
depending on which supercore you have (aluminum or stainless) youll want to get the appropriate mounting hardware for the exhaust housing. But keep in mind they are A2-70 so I'd recommend acquiring the correct hardware - its unlikely you can find this at a hardware store
where are you located? there are many top shelf tuners here in the states
22 hours ago, gixer said:Borg Warner "perfectoin"!!! When you paid 3k$, waited 3 months and at the end get this shit 😶
where did you get this turbo from? Your supplier should be able to get this handled by BW with a replacement cover. the ported shroud B2 covers have casting inclusions like this from time to time. there is zero impact on performance but the aesthetic is understandably unsettling
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22 hours ago, mugiwara no luffy said:
rb30/26 with 9280 1.05 ar built head, cams are gsc s2 built block with 9.1 on e85... is there finally a verdict on a 9280 test on how much power it’ll put down?...how much bar/psi can I run? Im a circuit guy and I don’t really care about drag/ power so long as I get some bad ass lap times but, could I reach 1000 whp on an American dyno?
not sure if trolling or not, but you can use the matchbot page to accurately determine your parameters. if you plan to run 1000whp on a circuit, youve got your work cut out for you
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On 6/5/2021 at 6:09 AM, Josh222 said:
A little off topic here but this seems like the best place to ask, how would response be on an Airwerks turbo in twin scroll on a built 2.6L. Something like a S362SXE compared to the -5s on sitting on my shelf.
the SXE will spool about 300rpm later and have more top end. good, simple, journal bearing turbo.
since this is the EFR thread - a mild 2.6L build with EFR8374 using internal wastegate/internal bov is a phenomenal performer. it's about the same price as airwerks with external wg/bov if cost is the airwerks factor
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On 4/3/2021 at 3:16 PM, gixer said:
Itll be on a drift car, so coming on boost hard, early is desirable.
whats the displacement and max engine RPM?
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15 hours ago, Robo said:
I went from a 7163 to 8374 to 8474 to 9174 and I am glad I did, it's an incredible turbo with amazing spool.
I'm glad to hear you like the decade old 9174. it remains a relevant turbo and due to a price discrepancy (that was never resolved) 9174 is the lowest cost EFR in the lineup. a bargain compared to almost anything else in the same price range
13 hours ago, Robo said:I guess the 1.45 A/R is a very well engineered housing.
1.45 a/r is a monster. It was originally designed for Honda's Indycar 2.2L V6 engine (12k rpm rev limit). As long as the housing is divided and there is a lot of boost at high engine speed >8500rpm then the 1.45 will work great.
*edit: Transient response will suffer, so it doesnt make sense for drift cars
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19 hours ago, gixer said:
How much laggier the 9174 is from 8474?
There's a smaller difference than expected. one reference point - Fred Aasbo (papadakis racing drift team) ran 8474 vs 9174 back to back on the same track and could not tell any difference. Their data shows 50-150rpm later spool but the tune did not change and he still uses 8374 for the smaller track Formula Drift competition
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On 3/8/2021 at 9:38 PM, R32 TT said:
Matchbot will tell you there is no way an 8374 should be on a 3.0L RB... 8474 makes about 50hp at the hubs more on same boost (750hp at 23-26psi) , temps post turbo (pre intercooler) are only 10 degree cooler. And post cooler can't see a difference. Definitely when in the mid-range revs and up you feel the extra legs it has... for me, on a 3.0-3.2L I'd be going 8474 and altering gearing to suit what you're doing, and keep it a bit further up the rev range.
all good advice. the other benefit of the 8474 is it won't overspeed as willingly on a large displacement RB
On 3/12/2021 at 10:17 AM, gixer said:What about 9174 1.05? I cant get my hands on 8474 and now i am wondering about this one.
we have 9174 in stock. it behaves similarly to 8474. (note: 8474 is on backorder until april)
On 3/14/2021 at 5:52 AM, R32 TT said:Try Geoff at Fullrace.com he has been very helpful to me and should be able to get you one. It may even get through customs a little more easily if he has sent to Bulgaria before and they've already gone through the steps.
thanks for the vote, we ship to south eastern europe without issue. most of our customers are not in the US
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i have a set of the borgwarner VTV housings if anyone is wanting to do a similar setup. They did not work well for me in twinscroll configuration, despite my initial expectation. I hope turbosource has got it figured out, but it definitely does work in open volute/singlescroll
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On 10/17/2020 at 7:46 PM, Mick_o said:
The 7670 is also a little beast to drive on the street
agree. after a number of years with 8374 on my evo8 at 2.1L. I swapped to 7670 and 2.3L displacement. little beast is exactly how I describe that combination
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On 10/7/2020 at 6:32 PM, Butters said:
So thoughts on the g35-1050 rating then ? ... Hawkins rear wheel I think was 880hp with the g35-1050 and that was with the biggest rear housing.
880hp at the wheels + 15% loss = ~1012 flywheel so its not all that off. Do you know if a turbo speed sensor was used?
On 10/7/2020 at 6:45 PM, burn4005 said:It's real flow is 90-95lb/min corrected so 900-950hp in old money turbo ratings
the issue is nobody uses engine dynos. So every drivetrain combination , every dyno and every correction factor will spit some result out that will not agree with the other HP calculations. and turbo manufacturers can not accurately guesstimate what that %loss will be across a wide spectrum of vehicles
On 10/7/2020 at 10:29 AM, Lithium said:I'm not so surprised about the G30, but I mentioned the G35 - which is what this discussion is about.
sorry i mis-read your post
On 10/10/2020 at 1:51 AM, Mick_o said:Dom said he had a customer S15 that he built running a G25 550.. He wasn't overly impressed by how it drove. Car made 300-320kw from memory. But he said it really didn't do much before 4000rpm. He said once it was on it was nice but took a while to wake up
do you know what turbine housing was used on this S15? In my experience sr20's are challenging. Yes they tend to take a while to wake up and dont love high flowing turbines... unless you swap to the sr20ve head 😈
On 10/10/2020 at 6:43 AM, BakemonoRicer said:put your hand on a small housing Garrett after some punchy driving and you'll get third degree burns.
ummm
On 10/12/2020 at 12:11 AM, reaper said:Not exactly an rb but I have a g35-900 going on an s55 at the moment which should be running at the end of the month.
Won't be anything crazy but was hoping for 500rwkw or so with plenty of mid range.Stock motor just rod bolts but they do have dual vanos plus fairly high comp standard.
interesting you are replacing the S55 twins with the undivided single turbo - please post up once it is running. interested to hear your feedback on the setup
On 10/11/2020 at 5:10 PM, ActionDan said:Speaking off, I had nfi they we'd declared bankruptcy.
Easy way to be rid of that debt from the Honeywell split though.
This is a precarious situation to be certain, but you nailed it. Honeywell saddled the Garrett Advancing Motion entity with unruly liabilities. Garrett may be even more interesting once this public entity is taken private. Garrett turbochargers may benefit in the end
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20 hours ago, IB_8229 said:
How would one go about sizing the turbo for a given application; what factors are involved?
Turbo Matching is the primary service Full Race provides for our customers. Most shops do not do this. Our staff members are trained on how to properly match turbochargers their 1st day working here. But you do not need us to do it, you can do this yourself by working through the matchbot webpage and watching the youtube tutorials.
It amazes me how many shops, garrett authorized dealers, and high end race teams we work with never perform proper match analyses. On a daily basis i am surprised and continue to learn - Many times i will have an assumption, then check the match and realize the assumption was incorrect. the only way to have confidence is to crunch the numbers
15 hours ago, burn4005 said:G35-900 is rated at 900hp but only flows ~80lb/min. And even less at higher pressure ratios.
They got very optimistic with their ratings compared with previous generations.
An efr8374 flows a full 79lb/min all the way up to a 2.5 bar boost (3.5PR) and they only rated it at 750hp.
I blame Garrett's Marketing department.
Precisions.. like 6262 and 6466... who the f**k knows but they must derate them as everyone drives those things waay beyond their rated flow. And they just smoke rather than die.
I have seen precision turbos fail from overspeed also. all manufacturer turbos will fail when overspeed occurs. The difference is precision turbos have no compressor map, no speed sensor port and are relatively large in diameter. And garrett turbos have these datas but do not have a user friendly interface to calculate operating points. It seems that many precision owners often select a bigger turbo than necessary (this avoids overspeed) as they focus on top end HP, but they will sacrifice response or time-to-torque.
17 hours ago, Lithium said:A Gen1 GTX3582R is probably capable of more power reliably and arguably with better response (for equivalent exhaust housing size) than a G35-900 on a 4cylinder.
respectfully disagree lith - A friend/ex employee had a GTX3582R vband singlescroll and swapped to G30 vband singlescroll when they were released. The response was night and day improved with the G30. GTX35 is not even remotely close in terms of response. Inertia is king when it comes to this metric
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thank you for sharing your story, i know it sucks to destroy a turbo (especially 2). but this type of severe overspeed failure is what happens when you "guess" on a turbo size (not helped by the turbo manufacturer marketing absurd HP capabilities). The point im trying to make here is proper turbo matching is important. Your conclusion that the inconel "gtx is a stronger turbo" is something i disagree with
to put this in perspective, (sorry i know its a g series thread) look at the case of a 2.5L EJ25 on matchbot. i set max rpm to 8000rpm and boost level = 36psi on EFR 8374. The red dots show the problem of overspeed by 7000rpm and would fail the turbo
But look at the same comparison with EFR 8474. this is safely operating on the map, away from overspeed and the turbo will live for hundreds of thousands of km use.
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^^^^ if you want the wastegate to open it does. if you want the wastegate to close, it does. these MHI actuators mean we are no longer constrained by mechanical spring forces and pressure differentials
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On 8/29/2020 at 12:24 AM, taijohnsen said:
we've been working on these setups quite a lot. The electronic actuator from the b58 supra has 20mm stroke which is a little bit long IMO but it does work!
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rb26 swapped 240z sounds like fun! but 1bar boost at 5500rpm is definitely not correct for 8474 on rb26. Boost leaks are a big issue, and exhaust leak is equally likely, given how laggy the boost is coming on. 2 smoke tests (boost leak and exhaust leak) are recommended
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that powerband is sick. nice work
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HKS2530 turbine wheel is a Garrett GT28 (53.8mm).
HKS2530 compressor wheel is an old Garrett GT2860 (60mm, not discopotato)
So if you're asking can the HKS turbine accept a Gen2 2860 GTX supercore, then I would surmise yes. Ive not done this myself however the bearing register and turbine wheel are consistent
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On 5/2/2020 at 2:10 AM, BK said:
Is there a 2859R that supercedes the original design ? Don't want -7 or -5, just a better -9 if there is one
there are a couple modern variations available in the RB26 bolt on turbo category. My preferred / recommended solution is Gen2 GTX in 2860 and 2867.
For the power hungry, you can also step up to 2971 and 2976 but that is pushing the limit of what these oem form-factor housings can support
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hi adrian, you are correct. this change coincided with Garrett updating GT Ball Bearing cartridges to a metal cage (older GT used a plastic cage ball bearing)
Garrett G Series
in Forced Induction Performance
Posted
g35 is a big turbo. i feel like the naming is off becuase it acts more like a gtx40-gtx42 frame size