Front Upper Arms For Ecr33...

[J-Boy]

Hi...anyone here who has the adjustable front upper arms for camber adjustment on their r33 gts-t? I heard they are very hard to get...if anyone here has them, could u tell me where and how i can get them...used or new...and how much do they usually cost?

[Sydneykid]

I am not a fan of sphericals in a road car, they wear out very fast in that environment, knock like a bustard and cost as much as a new arm to replace. Plus they add quite a bit to the NVH (noise, vibration & harshness). Adjustable polyurethane bushes are a far better solution for a road car.

cheers

[J-Boy]

Ok...well so the urethane bushes would be like those from whiteline right? How much camber can they adjust for? Cuz i heard they are only good fer up to -0.6 n i'm planning to get something like ard -2 camber with 0.5 toe in, i use my car as a daily drive and i plan to go fer the occasional track days...what kindda settings would u recommend?

Cheers~

[Sydneykid]

Ok...well so the urethane bushes would be like those from whiteline right? How much camber can they adjust for? Cuz i heard they are only good fer up to -0.6 n i'm planning to get something like ard -2 camber with 0.5 toe in, i use my car as a daily drive and i plan to go fer the occasional track days...what kindda settings would u recommend?

Cheers~

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

We have the adjustable Whiteline camber bushes in our R32GTST and it has 2.0 to 3.5 degrees adjustment in the negative camber on the front. That is plenty because we also have the adjustable radius rod bushes which give ~8 degrees positive caster. So it is not necessary to run very much camber, more caster less camber is always a superior solution.

If you run the front ride height around 350 mm (centre of wheel to guard) you will find that, without any adjustment, you have around 1.5 to 2 degrees negative camber. The camber bushes give you the adjustment from there. We have found that around 350 mm is a good ride height, within the design parameters of the standard suspension location points. So you don't get excessive dynamic camber change or bump steer.

I wouldn't be running toe in on the front on the circuit, a little toe out makes the turn in much better.

You should also consider the rear, where the camber bushes are used to adjust out the excessive negative camber you get when the rear ride height is lowered to match the front. We run aropund 10 mm of rake (nose down) as that gives a good roll couple. Any lower at the rear and the roll couple gets too small and you get diagonal pitching off the ripple strips.

Check out the Group Buy for your model, as the Whiteline camber and caster kits are at good prices.

Hope that was some help

cheers

[J-Boy]

Ok...i've a set of ohlins adjustable going into my gts-t, with all the available camber kits n adjustable arms around, i wanna know whether if i dont get the camber kits now, how much negative camber will i end up getting from lowering the car down to about 1-1.5 finger spacing between the fender n tyres(235/45/17) on the front, and about 2 finger spacing on the rear. Or the 350mm ride height that was recommended, how is that 350mm measured? If at the ride height of 350mm, i get -1.5-2 degree camber on my front, and that is my desired negative camber, will i still need the camber bolt kit in front? And what kind of negative camber will i be getting at the rear without adjustment at that ride height? With that camber bolt kit, do i still need front tension rods?

And fer the rear, what is the difference between using a camber bolt kit on the rear compared to using adjustable upper arms and traction rods?

[Sydneykid]

Ok...i've a set of ohlins adjustable going into my gts-t, with all the available camber kits n adjustable arms around, i wanna know whether if i dont get the camber kits now,

1. how much negative camber will i end up getting from lowering the car down to about 1-1.5 finger spacing between the fender n tyres(235/45/17) on the front, and about 2 finger spacing on the rear.

2. Or the 350mm ride height that was recommended, how is that 350mm measured?

3. If at the ride height of 350mm, i get -1.5-2 degree camber on my front, and that is my desired negative camber, will i still need the camber bolt kit in front? 

4. And what kind of negative camber will i be getting at the rear without adjustment at that ride height?

5. With that camber bolt kit, do i still need front tension rods?

6. And fer the rear, what is the difference between using a camber bolt kit on the rear compared to using adjustable upper arms and traction rods?

Suggestions to your questions follow;

1. 1 finger is ~340 mm (centre of wheel to guard is the standard suspension industry measurement). The rear guards are cut 15 mm lower than the front guards, so if you have 2 fingers at the rear (~350 mm) it will be very nose down (~25mm). The best looking/handling rake (nose down) is 10 mm. So (at 340 mm front) the rear guard needs to be almost zero fingers (330 mm).

2. 350 mm = 2 man sized fingers (not girly ones)

3. If you get 1.5 - 2.0 degrees negative camber on the front, regardless of ride height you won't need an adjustable camber bush kit in the front. But it hardly ever happens and each car is different.

4. For the 10 mm rake (nose down) you are looking at ~340-345 mm at the rear. That usually gives ~2.0 degrees negative camber, which is too much. You will need at least 1 rear adjustable camber bush kit.

5. You will always need to adjust the caster, Skylines NEVER have enough caster standard. So you will need adjustable caster bushes for the front of the radius (tension) rods.

6. There are no radius (traction) rods at the rear. Ajustable arms (and radius rods) have spherical bearings, they wear very fast, knock like a bustard and usually cost more than new arms to replace. Polyurethane (adjustable) bushes are a better alternative for a car that sees some road work.

Hope that answered your questions

cheers

PS; don't forget to check out the Group Buy for your model, as the Whiteline camber and caster kits are at good prices.

[J-Boy]

Thanx SK fer that very detailed reply...u have really helped me alot in answering my questions...and have been very helpful in answering my longwinded questions...LoL

Well could u tell me how more castor helps the car in terms of handling on the track or street? And do u think aftermarket tie rods and tension rods(not castor rods) are necessary fer track driving and drifting? What other components are needed to even further improve handling? I know abt the front and rear strut bars, anti-roll(sway) bars...what abt cross member brace and others?

U seem to do quite a bit of track driving or at least work on track cars? Through experience, what are the necessary modifications before a car is really track-ready? Do u think aluminium radiators and oil cooler kits are necessary fer track driving? I personally think fer a start, aftermarket turbos aren't necessary yet. I'm looking at going from suspension and handling, then tyres, then cooling systems, and then brake upgrade. Any opinions or advice?

[Sydneykid]

Thanx SK fer that very detailed reply...u have really helped me alot in answering my questions...and have been very helpful in answering my longwinded questions...LoL

Well could u tell me how more castor helps the car in terms of handling on the track or street? And do u think aftermarket tie rods and tension rods(not castor rods) are necessary fer track driving and drifting? What other components are needed to even further improve handling? I know abt the front and rear strut bars, anti-roll(sway) bars...what abt cross member brace and others?

U seem to do quite a bit of track driving or at least work on track cars? Through experience, what are the necessary modifications before a car is really track-ready? Do u think aluminium radiators and oil cooler kits are necessary fer track driving? I personally think fer a start, aftermarket turbos aren't necessary yet. I'm looking at going from suspension and handling, then tyres, then cooling systems, and then brake upgrade. Any opinions or advice?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

You have started a new thread asking almost the same set of questions, I have kicked off with some answers over there. The only question that I can see is unique on here is the caster question, so I will try and answer it here.

Caster is like camber on demand, when you turn the steering wheel you get camber change. This compensates for the body roll and maximises the tyre contact patch. When you don't need camber (ie; straight line braking) there isn't any, which maximises the tyre contact patch under brakes. Caster gives more negative camber on the outside wheel and more positive camber on the inside wheel, so it improves the contact patch on both front tyres.

The alternative is to whack on a whole pile of negative camber, and that works OK around corners for the outside wheel. But it is bad for the inside wheel as excessive negative camber drastically reduces the tyre cantact patch. Plus it is there under brakes, you are only using the inside edge of the tyre. The negative camber just gets more as the front suspension compresses under brakes, so the harder stop you have the less tyre is touching the road.

So that is why more positive caster is always better than more negative camber.

I need to point out that there are a number of names used for the same part in your question. The part that stops the front wheels moving forward and back has the following names;

A. Radius rod (the one I use most often)

B. Caster rod

C. Traction rod

D. Tie rod (not the correct term)

E. Link rod (there are lots of link rods on a car)

etc

They are all the same part, on a Skyline lengthening or shortening the radius rod changes the caster. There are 3 common methods used for adjusting the caster;

1. Redrilling the holes in the radius rod where it attaches to the lower control arm. Cheap and easy for a permanent resetting of the caster, but not adjustable.

2. Fitting a threaded rod, easy to fit and adjust. But they usually come with spherical bearings at the front which are not a good idea on a road car. They wear quickly, knock like a bustard, transmit the impact shock of wheels hitting bumps straight into the chassis, increase the NVH and cost more than new (complete) rods to replace when they wear out.

3. Adjustable caster bushes, tricky to fit to the standard arms (press needed), easy to adjust, made of long wearing polyurethane and have some capacity to absorb impacts without possing them on. The best solution for a car that is driven on the road mostly.

Hope that was of some help

cheers

[garage-13]

dont be weak,

pillowball caster/camber arms allow for much more adjustment and better handling.

tein/JIC rods etc last years being used on the street.

[J-Boy]

Hmmm...what about rear toe? I wish to toe in abt 0.5 on the rear, will i need adjustable toe rods on the rear? Or how can i adjust toe on my rear?

[Sydneykid]

Hmmm...what about rear toe? I wish to toe in abt 0.5 on the rear, will i need adjustable toe rods on the rear? Or how can i adjust toe on my rear?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

There are toe adjusters standard front and rear.

cheers

[J-Boy]

SK...ic...are u able to post a pic of which part is the toe adjusted by? Or where the standard toe adjusters are, how they look etc?

Thanx~