Full-Race Geoff

December 5, 2013

yes, the inlet flange is the same for these EFR7163 vband housings as for the Tial gt28-30-35 vband housings

December 4, 2013

no official spec sheets outlining things like dimensions, part numbers, model designations to cover but distinguish the 7163 lineup. Seems like a tight-lipped affair. Wonder if Geoff would enlighten us.

the 7163 is borg warner's latest EFR release for 2014. It is based on the B1 frame, so it shares identical outer dimensions (silhouette) with the 6258 and 6758 turbos. Some unique features that set this apart from the other EFR's are that it uses a lightweight alloy bearing housing (watercooling mandatory), mixed flow turbine wheel (MFT) and aggressive compressor wheel blade aero which supports up to 60lb/min max compressor flow rate, with a broad surge margin - biased towards midrange/lowend torque and spool/response.

The 7163's are not yet listed on our site, because demand has been very high and supply is low (BW is shipping slowly, but they are shipping) Details will be listed on F-R.com sometime later this month... after PRI and once BW is on track with production. The (4) turbine housing options and variations of 7163 are:

-T25 inlet/vband outlet IWG 0.85 A/R singlescroll

-Vband inlet/outlet IWG 0.85 A/R singlescroll

-Vband inlet/outlet EWG 0.85 A/R singlescroll (im dying to run 2x on an R35)

-T4 twinscroll IWG 0.80 A/R

December 4, 2013

Hi Geoff,

Have you got any details on the TurboSmart IWG? Is it a dual port?

the turbosmart IWG uses very large coil-springs (looks like an EWG inside) and is currently available as single port only. dual port is being shown at PRI next week. im impressed thus far

So what are we thinking then, BW 8374 0.92 IWG on BP98? (using full race manifold)..The turbo looks the gear certainly, but I am just a little bit concerned of possible lagginess coming from twins, I know the engine can handle 2 Bar/ ~29Psi no worries. I only want a legit 400KW ATW and therefore want the best possible drive-ability for this power level. Geoff or Lith, anyone got any ideas?

if you are used to upgraded twins, the twinscroll EFR8374 gives up nothing. For your 400kw target it is easily achieved with conservative tuning and moderate boost. The 0.92 a/r nor the internal WG will present any restriction at this power level. EFR turbos are far from lazy or laggy *as long as its a proper twinscroll divided manifold* and the turbo should be 'on' by 3500rpm, full boost by 3600. this is still my all time favorite single-turbo that ive run on my personal rb26.

Well I run a 8374 0.92 IWG on BP98 but on a built RB30 and it turns out 460KW ATW on a Hub dyno at 20psi. I think on a RB26 you should see 400KW without too much drama.

I know I have 400cc more than you have, but I have much less lag than I had with -5's on a built RB26, it now has full boost by 3400rpm.....but even that figure doesn't do it justice, these things seem to spool from idle, the response is awesome!

Perhaps I missed it, but will the 7163 make it the B2 frame, TST4 production?

the new EFR7163 is a B1 frame only. Borg Warner is also releasing a new 0.80 TS T4 housing, specifically to fit the B1 size hub socket (behind the turbine wheel). this hub socket is much smaller than B2 size, so they are not cross-compatible

Giving reasonable thought to the topic would lead me to think twin scroll may be difficult on the mixed flow turbine, not without unequal/biased division. In my mind it is a open housing specific turbine. Am happy for BW to school me, though. It would only be even better I'm sure.

I initially made the same assumption, until they showed me in the lab that twinscroll absolutely does work with mixed flow! on our 3.5L ecoboost v6 ford engine, the twinscroll 7163 gets 20psi right around 2000rpm! thats just nutty... and hence why im dying to try the 7163 twinscroll on my 2.0L evo in a couple months

November 27, 2013

Grrrr! Backpressure!

One day I will get around to putting some exh sensors on to find why I can't squeeze any more than 20psi out of my 8374......E85 and 40psi, now that would be fun! Haha

Chris - i just began testing the turbosmart IWG on a built subaru with EFR 7670 0.92 that couldnt hold more than 26-27psi previously -- the turbosmart worked perfectly with their high boost 26psi spring.

Look at the bottom of each chart, to see wg duty maps:

22psi:

25 psi

i know what i will be trying next on my RB26 0.92

Yeah I went the 1.05 rear with ewg because I was worried about boost control. Lets just hope its not too laggy on a 2.6!

8374 1.05 is far from laggy! 1bar boost by 3500rpm and still north of 700hp, its my favorite turbo ive had on my RB26 so far

whilst the IWG on these is game changing its a tall order to ask 600whp from.

the iwg is not what limits top end power, its the turbine housing A/R ratio

With a 50mm EWG I believe 380 is reasonable.

Keep us updated.

the EWG will not change drive pressure ratios, since there is no change to a/r

November 23, 2013

Hmmm im really liking the idea of an EFR on my evo 9. Kits are priced damn good compared to bolt on turbos too! What would you recommend for 300+kw with the best possible response Geoff?

I like this kit but is it possible to use a 7064 instead of the 7670 as my car is stock block 2L? http://www.full-race.com/store/efr-turbo-kit/mitsubishi-evo-4-9-4g63-top-mount-iwg-efr-twin-scroll-turbo-kit-1.html

thats a solid kit, i run it on my 2.0L evo8. Most people love the 7670 twinscroll kits since it spools similar to a stock 9 turbo but makes gobs more power everywhere else. If youre wanting something smaller than 7670 with quickest possible response and 300+kw --> twinscroll 7163 top mount is my recommendation. After christmas Im planning to switch my evo from 8374 to 7163, should be spool monster status with great response.

Here it is about half way down . http://www.mazdaspeedforums.org/forum/f424/game-changer-efr-7163-a-159047/

Note the first post where the OP reckons according to Garrett the Indy EFRs don't use the lightweight turbines ?

I'm not sure if a 7064 tops out higher than a final spec 7163 , bigger housings ?

Whatever 60 lb/600 Hp potential is right up there for the frame size . Honeywell must be wondering what to do when this turbo arrives in volume , the OE market would be watching too .

-if it's true somebody said that at Garrett.. they should fact check All indycars use off-the-shelf EFR wheels. Gamma-ti turbine and FMW compressor wheels are unchanged, literally *off-the-shelf*. they dont put heavy inconel wheels in the indycars thats idiotic to suggest since the primary reason those cars use these turbos is the lightweight turbine wheel

-7064 is available with 0.92 or 1.05 a/r, both of which have much more exhaust flow capacity than the 7163. if an application is backpressure limited this turbo has the upper hand

-Conversely the 7163 has a higher performing turbine and compressor pair, but with 0.80 twinscroll it seems to me more of a spool-monster going than a topend target.. in order to maxx out 60lb/min topend flow rates on the 7163, i think the 0.85 a/r singlescroll will be the choice

-i can confirm one OE is very interested in using the twinscroll 7163 on a high power v6 engine. our f150 results have been watched closely but the single turbo on a v6 combination presents additional manifold/piping and heat protection measures that adds cost compared to 2 cheap twins on an integrated manifold... so twin turbo still seems to be the way forwards for the v6 and v8 engines but there is a big future ahead for turbocharging technology.

Earlier I found a thread on the Mazdaspeed site that had the comp map of the 7163 , interesting if you haven't seen it , very wide so a wide ranging unit overall .

the 7163 comp map and turbine parameters were recently uploaded to matchbot: http://www.turbodriven.com/en/performanceturbos/matchbot.aspx

also a brief video from SEMA 2 weeks ago talking about the features, showing the wheels and the vband iwg 7163 turbo, etc : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EIHQDw0mBV0

November 16, 2013

Hi Geoff, thanks for the reply. I sent [email protected] an email about purchasing a 6258 and manifold etc to suit, but have yet to recieve a reply. What would be the best way to go about it? Could you moddify the exhaust housing in house prior to shipping, and could you make an internal gate manifold in a t3 configuration to suit?

sorry, we were away at SEMA. been getting caught up, Ill make sure you get a response on monday. In my opinion, the best way to use any of the EFR turbos is with a twinscroll manifold. The new "G housing" is 0.80 a/r twinscroll IWG B1 frame and available for 7163 first then 6758 and 6258. Of course if youre on a tight budget and wanted to use an off-the-shelf manifold, either t25 or t3 adaptors/flanges could be used or welded on to either side to make it all work

November 15, 2013

I don't mean to take away from all this big numbers talk, but what are peoples opinions/thoughts on a 6258 on a RB20? I'm currently running a 2530, would the 6258 be similar in response/spool?

an RB20 would absolutely rock with the EFR6258. it would feel like an rb26 with good turbos ha

October 23, 2013

nice! which turbo did you get? give us a call when it comes time to order the manifold & WG's

October 22, 2013

Challenge accepted. This aint no RB mate.

in that photo, I agree - the new EFR7163 singlescroll EWG vband inlet/outlet is your best option. we have a very small amount of these coming in over the next 2 weeks

R33 RB25s need a spacer to fit a GT3076R on the std manifold so it's probably not impossible to make the plate a twin entry T3 to twin entry T4 adapter plate . Going from smallish ports to the larger twin T4 ones obviously isn't ideal but it would let you mount a TS IW 7163 on the factory manifold .

http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/like/130895042084?lpid=87

It may be possible to port the manifold a little at the flange to get the ports a "little" closer in size .

Workable or don't bother ?

A .

that's exactly what ive been suggesting for you to do... I think weve been talking for close to 6-7+ years now, starting at that evo forum reminiscing with Khiem about NS111 9 blade turbines ... this would finally be the "magic" spec youve been waiting on. no BS i have never told you to buy any turbo before, this is the one for you. we have even less of these twinscroll 7163s coming in than singlescrolls, but there will be a couple

IMG-20131017-00253.jpg

Almost forgot, this was Thursday too.

Popped a couple of shims when Mark Berry was driving......

Had a false neutral on gear shift.

sorry to hear bud we were rooting for you. hope you can get it sorted before too long

Hey Geof, not too much related but was curious. on your 700whp build, you had 3 inch exhaust hen ? Haven't thought about going free flow 3 inch or 3.5 inch to see extra gains ? Wouldn't a turbo likke the EFR benefit from the extra free-flowing exhaust resulting in quicker spool ?

i always used 3.5" exhaust on my rb26. competing in street tire class, which requires a catalytic converter meant 3" would be too small. 4" is a bit too heavy and much louder plus it doesnt provide much power gains over 3.5" for the power range im interested in

October 20, 2013

Been at World Time Attack in Sydney the last couple of days......1st and 3rd place cars were running BW EFR turbos, 9180 and 8374 (although I think the 8374 was a bit of a "special model".....care to tell Geoff

so jealous you got to attend!! great showing all around, proving the EFR turbos on multiple vehicles in competition. EFR9180 turbos were used by PRO class 1st and 3rd places Tilton and Nemo.

Open class we had 2nd and 4th places on EFR8374 (vsport evoX and nik kalis evo 9)

and 1st place BC racing r32 GTR used ETS-pro.

also noteworthy is 1st place for clubsport FWD with EFR6258 on Judas Jones' colt ralliart, prepped by Todd Munkman. he wrote to me

"Turbo wise, it's epic. Power comes on hard and spools quite well for such a tiny engine. Running boost by gear so gate pressure (15psi) in first and second, 29psi in 3rd-5th."

From what I've seen a T4 Twin Scroll 1.05 A/R EWG will spool faster than T3 open scroll...and is better across the whole rev range. I would be opting for that option if I go an EFR...

i agree, t4 twinscroll is the best configuration for the larger B2 EFR turbos. however some people want to keep their existing undivided setups so we offer both. they can always swap the turbine housing/manifold later on to a divided to get the twinscroll torque curve & midrange power

I am only after a punchy 260+rwkws from my Cossie. The thing is low compression so happy to run up to 26psi. I just have to get my head around running a turbo with wheels the sizes of the EFR 7064 and 7670 and still be able to get good reponse and torque as the engine only pulls 7,000rpm. I think I would be happy with 6758

for 350whp / 260wkw up to 7000rpm on a 2L engine-- i agree the EFR 6758 is a perfect match. In undivided config it's extremely simple to plumb if you have an existing manifold

sounds like the twin scroll T4 7163 will be the go. What hot side options are there with regards to IWG and A/R for the T4? Geoff...will these end up on your site or should I just drop you some mail in a few weeks?

The new 7163 T4 twinscroll turbo is very impressive, although it is larger than your stated airflow requirements. it is available as 0.85 a/r singlescroll (iwg T25, iwg vband or ewg vband) and the 0.80 twinscroll T4 IWG. 7163 production is going on right now. We are not going to list them on our site until the reservation lists are filled (too many phone calls about them as it is), people on our reservation lists will be getting the turbos first, if you want to put your name down it doesnt cost anything we will contact you once they become available with an option to buy. thanks everyone for your patience still a few weeks away but its happening

Oh shiet.. yeah, just remembered that it was the ART silvia with 300kw

That was with a 6758.

http://www.nissansilvia.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=525164

http://www.nissansilvia.com/forums/index.php?app=core&module=attach&section=attach&attach_rel_module=post&attach_id=420844

thanks for that link, i remember speaking with Scott (tuner) when they did that setup, he was over the moon with it. Now hes dying to try a 7163 on there next

BTW any idea why Full-race might want my full name for a shipping quote?

I'm too paranoid to give that info out until I'm sure I want to get it off them. But that depends on shipping price. I'm sure there's a reason though.

we try to keep organized and detailed records, that way when an estimate is emailed or an order is placed there are no mistakes or confusions. Very important especially when shiping to the other side of the planet.. although with a screen name like "skepticism" i thought this was a perfectly appropriate post

I really like the look of the 7163. Also, my .63 gtx3071 hit 20psi @ 4200, with a giant intercooler pipe leak.

if youre interested in the 7163 we will have details at the end of this week, pricing and availability. with regards to your gtx3071 it was on a .63 where our test was .82 a/r (for the sake of comparison to the EFR's .83 a/r)

I think the best im ever likely to achieve is desired boost by 4000rpm. Don't get me wrong, I like my current setup, but my car is currently apart getting various work done to it and I'm in a position where I could easily change turbo now if I wanted to, or if an opportunity arose

I would expect the 7163 to have full boost long before 4000rpm. also most of the t4 twinscroll EFR turbos like 7064 or 7670 should also acheive that. The singlescroll might do it but it would be close

the internal gate version is too long to fit into half the cars I work on. The external gate versions are looking better each day.

typically the length of the IWG turbos is not what makes them hard to fit - its the actuator and bracket (which we have a few ways to work around it). For street cars its worth the effort required to design manifolds/DPs which utilize the IWG, although EWG does make fitting on traditional kits very simple. we are happy to suit either option

October 17, 2013

I'm with you. T3 single scroll EW, in a size that my SR20 can spool. You'd have an instant customer.

We can do the EFR7670 and EFR8374 with T3 EWG housing. We've found that on a 2L engine the singlescroll T3 7670 EWG can hit 1bar around 3600rpm, compared to a GTX3071R singlescroll T3 which sees 1 bar around 4400rpm

I'm affraid the explanation is fairly simple. My existing exhaust manifold is made for EWG, deliberately, because I think its neater and provides better boost control. All I'm saying is that I'd readily upgrade if the option of a bolt on affair were available

7670 T3 EWG:

8374 T3 EWG:

I'm a follower of the IWG but do you really need the EWG to kick some ass... They have many different models but people always seem to want what isn't produced. Can't win. I'm sure you wouldn't be disappointed with the IWG, even if you're a hater, you'd be surprised. Less piping too.

you're correct - everyone asks for stuff that isnt produced (welcome to the world of aftermarket performance LOL). we do the best we can to bring top shelf turbos and innovative housing/manifold combinations to the market. I believe IWG and twinscroll are 2 features not to be overlooked, but for guys who are unwilling want to change their manifold or setup its a non starter. Of course they can run their setup 'as-is' with a T3-EWG housing and upgrade to a twinscroll turbine housing + manifold later on

Well i understand then. If you're luck you won't need a custom manifold (or EFR specific one)

correct - the T3 ewg EFR's will still work on most existing setups intended for GT or otherwise:

We don't need to pay $2,200 for a turbo and $420 to ship it.

that ridiculous, unless its being shipped to some strange corner of the globe. We sell a lot of bw turbos to Aus/NZ, nobody would ever pay 420 to ship a single turbocharger. we're not a huge company, we dont sell thousands of items on ebay but we charge the same that Fedex charges us. we recently shipped a couple manifolds and turbos to Nemo-Racing.com and that was up there. shipping is not cheap these days

is the efr 7064 good for 560hp "At the wheels" or at the flywheel???

im talking t4 twin scroll with 1.05 A/r and dual wastegates

EFR 7064 runs out of breath around 480-500whp depending on what engine it's attached to. It's compressor is a bit too small for a 560hp target.

EFR7670 is the clear choice for the 550+whp range (I dont think of it as a 600+whp turbo)

Money no object its a fantastic turbo, but bang for buck it's doesn't deliver $1000-1500 worth more performance over say a GTX35 or a PT6262 BB

i disagree. With a twinscroll EFR and 0.92 a/r you get some serious bang for the buck and wont have to buy the following items:

(2) wastegates (600-700$)

(2) dumptubes/clamps/flanges/vbands (250-400$)

BOV (250-280$)

BCSV (50$)

October 16, 2013

photo of an EWG 7163 that we converted to T3 installed on the manifold. you can see the sideview profile of the turbine discharge trumpet

October 16, 2013

That is a porn rear housing right there. Is the temp probe port tapped from factory? Or is it just a cast section that's designed for the job...

I like the trumpet outlet, very nice. It would flow much better than the garrett/Tial single angle outlets I am sure.

all external-WG EFR turbos (1.05 a/r T4 also) have that nice velocity stack "trumpet" machined into the outlet like that. That bung you see was part of the prototype housings. it was used to record preturbine 'EMAP' to determine the optimal A/R size for the production housings

That looks like a Tial V band housing, do you have any pics of the process on a T2 EFR housing?

that photo is a 7163 vband EWG prototype housing for use on an R35 GTR high power build. Weve done the same to T25 also, in fact recently did it for the Modified Magazine Time attack S2000 build. ill try and grab a photo later today of this housing conversion for you

October 16, 2013

Wouldn't welding on a T3 flange to a T2 housing result in just a little bit of turbulence? ..Not to be a prick, but I have a T3 setup as noted and I WANT a 500HP EFR...

no problem, here is an external photo of this procedure done properly. ill try and get an internal photo next time we do one.. spend some time with the die grinder

October 15, 2013

Looking at your site it suggests that you can get twin scroll T4 housings for the 6758 but isnt available in the drag down box. I am after a punchy turbo for my 2L YB cosworth. Engine runs low compression and runs 26psi at the moment so if I can get something a little more punchy that likes boost I could get a streetable bit of grunt

the Twin Scroll T4 housing will be available for the 7163 starting in approximately 3 weeks... thats what you want to run. heaps of grunt and still 60lb/min top end flow capability to support your 26psi target boost level

I predict that the 7163 won't make huge numbers but will probably do amazing things for its size. From what I see there isn't going to be a T3 flanged turbine housing from EFR though I suspect a few sharpies may try to fit alternative housings to them . Plainly TS T3 isn't going to happen and while single scroll isn't the best technology available a 7163 in this form should be better in theory than a GT3076R . It makes me wonder how they'd go with someone else's 0.63 or 0.82 IW housing .

the 7163 is very impressive - we consider it to be the ultimate 500hp turbo. It's unique MFT (mixed flow turbine) wheel allows much more exhaust flow for a given wheel size and inertia, the on-engine performance is nothing to scoff at. If you wanted a T3 twinscroll, or a T3 singlescroll for that matter -- remember EFR's all use stainless housings so its easy to weld on top of the T4 or T25 housing -- a T3 flange and make it work. weve done this more than a few times now

The ex-Willal drag R32 has twin EFR6758s, I am pretty sure one of the other EVOs is running an EFR8374, Tilton are running an EFR9180... So that's a few EFRs that will be on pretty rapid cars

some of the WTAC cars running EFR turbos:

vsport evoX -- EFR 8374

nik kalis evo 9 -- EFR 8374

Nemo evo 9 -- EFR 9180

Tilton evo 8 -- EFR9180

john bright R32 GTR-- EFR 6258 x2

Danh Tranh R32 GTR-- EFR 6758 x2

Ric Shaw FD RX7 -- EFR 8374

judas jones ralliart colt -- EFR 6258

-----------------------------

FXMD NSX -- EFR 9180 (unable to make it to wtac2013)

Sierra Sierra -- EFR 9180 (retired)

Someone mentioned OEM for The EFR's.....well I wouldn't say it's a huge amount (in fact the order as it stands is 120 cars) but the Pagani Huayra with its AMG twin turbo V12 has EFR turbos on it. So there's at least 240 units sold! Haha!

that thing is absolutely insane, twin EFR 6758s in the oem mercedes turbofold (integrated manifold/turbine housing)

October 9, 2013

I see next year that Indy Cars now must run twin EFR turbos, so those waiting for 9180s they should be readily available

Yes, all Indycar teams were mandated to run twin 6758's next year, in order to make things more consistent between the engine manufacturers on the different tracks... as a result we finally have the EFR9180s in stock in fact Tilton Interiors time attack evo just got theirs in time for wtac

IMO the EFRs are better generic units than those Garrett dual boost things . They look like specialised model/engine specific turbos and not very versatile . Also calling the hot side axial is a bit elastic as the gas flow still turns through 90 degrees. Clearly BW is on the right track trying hard to minimise the mass/inertia of the rotating group (turbine) and offering twin scroll and integral waste gating . Nothing wrong with conventional wisdom if everything is really dialled in . Garrett appears to be trying the cheap way out with current materials and questionable black magic (apprentice engineering) . Good luck with that ...

It would be good for BW to get OE interest and volume sales because that's where the real money is .

Not sure if its helping them but the trend these days is smaller engines and higher boost to get the torque out of them , not surprisingly tightening emissions regs are f**king over advanced engineering so gains can be minimal .

adrian, you are correct the OEM business for turbochargers is the reason BW invested in the EFR program. They are developing technologies for racing in order to sell turbos of tomorrow to the OEM's. over the next few years the demand from automakers for turbochargers will be through the roof. features like gamma ti turbines, integrated bov/wg, stainless twinscroll housings, and the others will be found on oem engines. in fact heres a statement today from honeywell/garrett about this

LOL Garrett Dualboost, I hadn't bothered following garrett shiz for a long time. Double compressors is VERY interesting.

dualboost is garrett's way to lower rotational inertia, by using 2 small compressors instead of 1 larger one. packaging issues and increased wall friction are the downsides. Borgwarner lowers inertia with the titanium aluminide

I wish BW'd get the finger out with the B1 7163 turbo because it's been soooooo long in the pipeline . I keep searching for new info/results but all I find is limited testing with prototypes and they've changed over time . About the only thing I've read recently is that they (I think) developed to be in step with Indycar apps and possibly that held them up . I'm guessing the "little" extras like the aluminium centre housing and the mixed flow turbine wheel have gone through the competition R/D wringer .

7163s are being built this month, and were added to matchbot recently. T25 iwg with T4 twinscroll iwg to follow. Turbine maps are up also its happening

October 8, 2013

Unless I can trade my existing manifold I'd be going T3, I just have a good bolt in kit I want to use.

ill see what comes up in the lead time :-)

one option you could consider is to run the 7670 with T3 turbine housing initially. Then, later on if you wanted to go twinscroll - just swap to a divided manifold and a divided housing

Sorry to bring this up again... I'm curious what size of intake filters these cars were able to fit. Twin 3"? 3.5"? 4"?

They appear crowded in so I wonder how much intake piping they could fit.

the twin turbo kits use B1 EFR turbos. these all have 2.5" inlet. You can step that up to 3" if you like, but there is zero benefit to 2x 3.5" or 2x 4" on a twin setup

Here's a quick vid of it running, sorry for the sh1t filming, I'm still learning how to use the camera

sounds healthy

Well I just pulled the trigger on a full race 8374 1.05 setup with manifold and twin 44mm gates so here's hoping it's everything I hope it will be!

thats my favorite combination ive run on the RB26 over the years, you wont be disappointed

October 7, 2013

How is the EFR8374 with the t3 housing?

great turbo, there was a 2JZGTE with this turbo on the cover of dsport 2 months ago.. since the cylinder pairing is not sensitive we've seen it used on some interesting applications with great results, such as a 5 cyl 2.5L and the audi/lambo V10 (in twins)

It would be for my built SR. Is cammed and forged. Ideally I want to see 500whp when pushed, am not sure the 7064 will get there despite the compressors advertised flow.

Yet I am also worried the 7670 might not have enough poke down low.

for 500whp, go with the EFR7670. If you want some balls down low make sure its twinscroll config that turbo does not disappoint!!

October 7, 2013

What difference in spool are you seeing between the .92 and the 1.05 Geoff? I do like the simplicity of an iwg setup however im a little worried the .92 will become a restriction before I hit my target.

Thanks for your help.

- Brett

Im not a good enough driver to notice or appreciate the change in response that shows up in the lab. EFR's spool so fast it sorta feels the same to me. On the dyno it really doesnt show a big difference in spool, maybe 100-150rpm? driving the car its also not a huge issue. The performance of these is a drastic improvement compared to the traditional turbos we're accustomed to

The real decision maker - is what are your power/boost targets and whether you want IWG or EWG? the 1.05 can carry boost up top, in the high RPMs whereas the 0.92 a/r does great on an rb26 under 2bar but the a/r gets too small after 28-30++psi..

Are there any 7064 and 7670 .83 T3 results available? Preferably on 2L motors.

Google tells me people either have larger EFR's with the .83 open or twin scrolls on the smaller ones. I am specifically considering T3 framed turbos ONLY at this stage.

we've done a lot of 7064 and 7670 on the T3 - mostly with Honda VTEC engines like K20 and K24. These have higher ve and rpm range than most, what engine are you asking about, RB20?

October 6, 2013

8374 is what you want. it comes on hard around 3600rpm and full boost above 4k+ rpm. That is a great turbo for the RB26.

chris on here runs the 0.92 8374 on an RB30 if you would like to compare his results, i think lith posted the chart recently. i liked the 1.05 i ran also, since youre on e85 and can run some boost the 1.05 might be a better choice... but the simplicity of the 0.92 IWG is really nice

edit: 7670 is too small for rb26. works great on rb25 tho

October 5, 2013

Those 6758's look like a physically large turbo.

Please post results of that thing as soon as you have a graph please ,Geoff.

diameter wise - the EFR's use relative large a/r compressor housings with the integrated BOV so its bigger dia than the garretts youre used to seeing

lengthwise - the EFR's are long, due to the high-flow aerodynamic IWG port and long bearing (overbuilt):

i will share results when they're finished, however just got a text message their AEM V2 ecu crapped out and they have to send it back. Next day air commencing today... hes pissed but hoping to get it back early next week.

Geoff, I see both boost controllers are connected but in reality only one will be in use and T'd to both turbos correct?

I could be wrong but they look fairly larger than the 6258, more than I would have thought anyway! I would have seen the 67s do nicely on a 30 (or even stroked 30) but does he expect some lag/high rpm kind of power? What's his expectations? 750-800whp?

Is that the car going to WTAC? Or is this another?

you can run (1) or (2) BCSV's, ive been told by BW it makes no difference. However I was recently talking to some experienced drag racer friends they tell me it works best when seperate BCSV's are used... so i dont know which is best yet but as more cars come together we will have answers

the 6758s are identical housings and dimensions to 6258, the only difference is the larger compressor wheel size. Truthfully, I prefer the twin 6258's on RB engines - i think thats a perfect compliment and balance between spool and power. The 6758 will make more power, he wants 800+whp (street drag racer) so 6258 was a touch too small.

BTW - this is not 9krpm/danh tran's twin 6758 WTAC car, although they are getting close:

I agree the 6758's look like quite largish frame turbo's when comparing to the baby framed -7/9/5's and 10's. Obviously the 6758's also make more power than the good "OLD" GARRETTS though also.

The compressor covers look so busy with all thd gadgets as well. Personally I really dont see the point in going twin 6758's with sll the extra custom piping and what not when you can keep it simple and go a 9180.

Josh

Im a single turbo guy too - probably never see twins on my RB26... but theres no denying that these twins have lower inertia, so can spool a little earlier and flow more @ 53lb/min so can make a little more power than the 9180.

October 4, 2013

madevelopments in the UK just finished up this 2.2L evo, 98ron pumpgas, EFR 9180 1.05 a/r @ only 1.4bar boost:

also one of the R34 GTR's i mentioned previously will be dyno tuned next week. RB28 with twin EFR 6758:

October 3, 2013

Someone over here in WA just finished their RB30 with EFR8374...

Apparently went 470-480rwhp on a dyno dynamics on at 1.5bar on pump 98. Full boost at 3500rpm

he is pleased with the initial result, but looking forward to some track time to truly evaluate the setup... compared to the -5s he ran previously

October 3, 2013

So can I/we expect the result on this 7670 to be better since we have 2.6 instead of 2.2. I know nothing about evos and don't know if they can compare, somehow, to rbs.

a larger displacement engine will usually spool faster. the 7670 is a great turbo, but a bit small for an RB26 if you plan to build it. The 8374 is a better match in my opinion. We have an rb25 pro drift competitor who runs the 7670 (because he wanted a bit quicker response for his small local track) but i expect he will have an 8374 on there soon for the big tracks:

Hence why I would love to see a well equipped NEO dirty 30. I may just have to build one

what is a NEO dirty 30?

BMW kept them alive for a time but eventually went to the dark side with a V8 I believe in M3s .

A .

adrian normally i agree with you, but you must be drinking tonite. BMW produces far more turbocharged Inline motors than V motors...

October 2, 2013

yea lith - this EvoX is the daily driver for the owner of MooreTuning. He started with EFR7670 1.05 a/r and then switched to the EFR9180 1.05 a/r. Really nice guys, I met them in the BorgWarner booth at PRI and spoken a few times over the last 4 years. Typically they sell a lot of precision and FP turbos so he was interested in the EFR but like everyone else was a little skeptical. now he has a decent opinion on them, keeps calling it magical

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Posts posted by Full-Race Geoff