Cubes

Back when the the VP's were new the manager of my part time job bought a new VP V8 Auto Commodore. That ran a 15.4 1/4.

No idea what the stock values are. Those values are from the PFC. R32 and R33 values are the same. R34 runs a little leaner. My R32 gets up to operating temp within 2km's, earlier if I let it idle for a minute or so after the initial start. I'm running the R34 values, they are perfect, it drives nicer than the origional rb20/25 values. So.. I'm not going to fiddle. I did try fiddling with the rb20 values, I got flat spots and general bogging. i.e driveability suffered.

Water temp injection correction has nothing to do with closed loop. It richens up the afr when the car is first started, much like a choke. As water temp increases the afr leans off to the usual afr. The R34 water temp correction runs a little leaner and actually allows the car to run better when cold. Well, my car anyway. You can throw it in your self to have a look see once its all tuned, don't forget to write down the origional values. The R32/R33's origional water temp injection correction values are: +80C 1.000 1.000 +50C 1.094 1.156 +30C 1.141 1.297 +10C 1.250 1.500 -10C 1.391 1.734 -30C 1.594 2.000 The R34's water temp injection correction values are: +80C 1.000 1.000 +50C 1.031 1.078 +30C 1.063 1.219 +10C 1.250 1.469 -10C 1.391 1.734 -30C 1.594 2.000 Table reads as temp, light load injection correction and moderate/heavy load injection correction. As you can see the R34 runs slightly leaner. Mine used to really stink of fuel on the mornings, it doesn't tend to stink as much any more, also there is no slight flat spot that I previously had and the car simply drives easier when stone cold, that is starting and instantly driving away. Have a good look around your pfc h/c, make yourself familiar with all the menu's and options. Do this now, before its tuned. So if you break something you can simply initialise the pfc and its all good again.

If an injector is blocked or clagged sure less fuel will pass through, that fuel will also squirt instead of spraying a fine atomized mist. Bad atomization = incomplete combustion = bad fuel economy. If it starts fine then it sounds as if the injectors are ok. Cold start water temp correction table also has some head room for fuel economy improvements. The R34 values are a very good place to start from. Depending on how much you are paying for the tune they will have the car for a day or two tweaking the water temp correction and a few other little bits.

Injector condition? Vacuum leaks? How does it start first thing in the morning? Splutter at all?

I'm unsure what model a TJ is but I do know the new magna's do go very well, I've driven a NA R33 back when I was looking at my R32. Sorry to say manual for manual the Magna will easily kill the R33 NA, especially from a standing start to 100km/h. Drive one and you will know what I mean. The power delivery and flexibility of the motor/gear ratios makes the car quite zippy and fun to drive. My other halfs brother often brings the new mitsi's home from his work, they go very very well, especially the manuals. So much torque down low from such a small motor.

Santhas, My VS appeared to handle the stock power level + an exhaust fine, it was only once I threw a mild cam and ecu in to it when thigns started to break. My diff went, didn't clunk, just bearings began making strange loud noises that made it sound as if it was going to lock up and send you in to the guard railing any minute, it also was openwheeling, the gearbox went on a hard launch against some crap HQ V8 4speed thing. Funny thing was as I was trying to work out where my gears had gone I saw the sticker on his rear window "Classic not plastic" as he roared past. I drove it the same as I have the skyline, I have now eased up on the skyline as i'm not as much of a hoon as I was when 19. The VS had IRS, comparing the designed and look they look weak, its apparently a common problem for the rear subframe to split from the diff mount bolt holes when you start putting some decent power through them. It was lowered with bilsteins, whiteline shocks and sway bars, it also had a whiteline camber kit on the arse end, who knows maybe lowering the IRS VS commodores and slapping the camber kit on them places too much strain on the subframe. BUT it doesn't really explain why it split the subframe like a can opener attacked it from the diff mount bolt, I still suspect as suggest to me when it happened that the rear ends on them cannot handle big launches and hard gearchanges when making decent power. Not stock power, as really whats 130rwkw. Stuff all. lol

Chris, How was the O2's response (0.2-0.8v cycle speed) affected with the change ON IDLE? If the lag time is out the closed loop function finds it hard to cycle quickly.

Realistically 12:1 is fine. Just don't go lean and run less ignition timing to make more power at the expense of reliability. If it were my car and I was heading down Mallala I would want afr's around the mid to high 11's, no higher. We did kind of get of track a little, my origional post stated that bad tuning i.e lean afr's and retarded ignition timing is what causes problems. Then some how we got in to the whole advanced ignition timing = more heat or what ever. Basically you want the heat in the combustion chamber (where it can be used), you don't want it spilling out in to the exhaust, so to speak. But as I said above, you really don't know what is the most reliable until you tune it in conjunction with an egt guage.

lol. The private parts sale section of these forums is a good place to start. They generally go for $400 or so. A wrecker will want up to $800 for one.

From an RB25.

I wouldn't bother with a cheap highflow of the rb20 turbo. Slap a rb25 turbo on it and make near the same power with much less lag. OR as Mr. Bass suggested, grab a R34 turbo, they are the larger of the turbo's bolted on the side of the RB25 and tend to make a little more power.

In 91+ they were a little slower due to being weighed down, didn't haul away from the commodores on the straights as much but had the suspension better sorted. I think the difference with todays bathurst cars is they are no longer a touring car, i.e SUPERCAR!! So its a different ball game.

Sorry Buddy, I was refering to the 0% injector duty cycle, the only time mine reads that is when decelerating, when decelerating the ecu cuts fuel, its a little feature new cars have to save fuel and apparently wear and tear. Closed loop generally is used up to around 30-40rwkw's. Then it drops out and uses the map. To furthur aid fuel economy you can play with that area of the map and tune to stoich (14.7:1) until the ecu see's 0 vacuum.

So what is it then? You would rather what? Tune lean run less ignition timing? or tune a little richer and run more ignition timing? I am talking about a whole package, not just playing with ignition timing or just with fuel. Consider most hipo motors, how they are tuned. They don't lean the suckers out and run stuff all ignition timing, they tend to run them richer and keep the ignition timing in there, especially around peak torque. Obviously if you dial in too much fuel you will see egt temps climb due to what is known as afterburn. Its a balancing act, if you really hammer the car around the local track I would definitely consider investing in an egt temp guage. Its the only way to achieve the safest tune. I should also mention the japs tend to tune a little richer and run a little more ignition timing in their drift cars. I've done quite a bit of research in to the theory of tuning and feel I have quite a good idea what is going on. A richer tune that allows a little more ignition timing is a safer tune. EDIT: ESPECIALLY for ceramic turbine turbo's.

I've got the whole races 90-92. Quality isn't the best but its ok.

To see closed loop mode operating head to the etc menu then sensor check. Look at the o2 value. It will cycle up and down from roughly .2v to .8v. The injector duty on my pfc h/c stays at low values while in closed loop mode, it only ever reads 0% when the car is off or when deceleration fuel cut is active. i.e using gears to slow down with rev's greater than approx 1500rpm.

Here's the answer to the thread starters question.

TommyK, Sards are generally known as squirters, are they the new 2 and 4 pintles? Big injectors will always have issues with atomization at low rpm.

The R32 does have a fuel light. It apparently turns on when there is approx ~10litres in the tank. If your having to slip it in to a lower gear for the o2 sensor to work properly I would look at the injectors, chances are they are clagged, at low rpm they will have really poor atomisation. 'When' my rb20det injectors were fine I used to get around 470km's to 50litres of fuel for local driving, not so much peak hour driving but short 10-20km trips to uni and back. I also often gave it a bit, it was always reving to 4k on 15psi, I never drove it easy. But what I did do was always drop it in 5th. Even at 40km/h. Should I need to accelerate I would drop it back.

Bov's definitely do not hurt the engine. Having no bov doesn't hurt the engine either. There is the issue of having no bov causing compressor stall when you jump off the throttle, causing it to have to spin up again. When making shiet loads of power some have noticed a decrease in lag between wot gear changes by running a larger bov. Who knows.. Who cares..

Retarded ignition timing creates high EGT's and essentially makes everything hotter. Just did a quick google to provide you with a link. http://www.grumman.net/~n4170n/EGTTroubleshootingTable.html

A 2-2.5ltr is a small 6cyl.

I will definitely be going a lightened flywheel when this stocker chews out. I found the nicest benifit of the lightened flywheel is how much easier it is to slap the next gear at high rpm. The stock weight flywheel that holds rev's up, I find I 'occasionally' miss the gear.

There used to be a Paint balling place down at Deep Creek Conservation Park? A decent drive. A pitty more of us don't have tents (not that they are expensive), could have a bit of paint balling, stay the night have a bomb fire, bbq and beers.