What to upgrade next ? (PowerFC ??)

[benm]

Hi their im not a car person so i'd like some input on what i should be doing next in order of upgrades considering the price vs increase power situation. (In plain english please)

Current Mods:

1995 R33 GTS-T

64,000km

Stock Internals

Stock ECU

HKS Pod Filter

TurboXS 2 Stage Boost Controller

Custom FMIC

Nismo 3" Cat back Exhaust

First (only) DDDyno run was done about 3mths ago while using Castrol Vortex (96RON - now using Optimax 98RON) and oil that had done 9,000km (since replaced).

I was told that i was ever-so-slightly getting pinging right at the top of 4th on 12psi and not to use 12psi during warm days for long periods of driving. I'm wondering if that would have been fixed with the new oil and higher grade fuel ??

My results were:

7psi = 168rwkw

12psi = 192rwkw

Ok so what should i do next....

Will my stock ECU take much more ?

Should i get a PowerFC considering the little mods elsewhere that i have ?

What rwkw could i expect by installing a PowerFC and having it tuned ?

Will my stock Turbo take much more ? (I do not want to upgrade Turbo as im not that 'serious' about spending money on the car)

Wheres the best/cheapest place to get a PowerFC ? (Can get a 2nd hand 1 w/o controller for $1,300 delivered)

Do i -need- the controller? or can that be purchased at a later point of time ?

Would replacing the front half of my exhaust do much over the standard ?

What extra rwkw could i expect from this ?

Any help would be appreciated ! as i'd love to crack 225rwkw eventually.

[predator]

You're actually pulling a few more rwkw than me (mine is 177rwkw when the last owner dynoed it) and mine is fairly similar setup so you're doing pretty nicely.

Why would you want to run 12psi during warm days and long periods of driving? Personally i only use high boost occassionally when i feel like really going off the line. The rest of the time i'm just running on 8psi or so. There's not much point along the highway or whatever and much of the time my turbo isn't spooling at all when I'm just sitting on a speed.

For me anyway, I'm hoping an EBC will give me some more kw - and i'm aiming to get just over 200kwrw and if i do i'll be happy with that for now.

Well going on from what I have read on here, a PowerFC may only give you 10-20rwkw advantage depending on what else is maxxing out. You won't get a massive kw gain, as its just acting more intelligently for higher boost, air/fuel mixture, timing and things, not massively more power. It just gives the potential to handle more non-standard components when you want to go further by putting in new injectors, new fuel pump, high flowing (or bigger) the turbo and things which you'll need to get you around or over 250rwkw

After I've put in the EBC, the PowerFC is definitely the next mod for me, then i'll consider what i have to do in terms of the fuel system and turbo to push me much further.

From what i've seen, that $1300 is a good price. Nengun seems to have the lowest prices of all the online places i have seen. The H/c as far as i can tell is mainly rice factor, but it allows you to monitor things which u can maybe get back to your tuner about later (injector duty, etc) - if that interests you then maybe its worthwhile. If you just want to let the tuner worry about all that stuff, then maybe its not worth it. Its not essential as far as i can tell.

[2rismo]

and i'm aiming to get just over 200kwrw and if i do i'll be happy with that for now.

on standard turbo? EBC or not, it's not likely to last long.

The H/c as far as i can tell is mainly rice factor, but it allows you to monitor things which u can maybe get back to your tuner about later

Rice? Just cos it looks pretty? In that case, ALL gauges are rice. The hand controller can monitor all sorts of things that people go and buy million dollar gauges for. Water temp, Boost pressure, Oil temp and pressure (maybe only on newer models than mine, not too sure). It is also required if you ever want to TUNE THEM!!!

Sure it's a Full Computer - i.e. a replacement and is totally turn key, but that doesnt mean you'll get the most out of it just by pluggin it in. Also, even some authorised Apex shops dont have controllers to tune them and rely on customers having them.

So in short, I think its absolutely essential to have one.

Back on topic though, get the front and dump pipe sorted then get a Power FC.

Adrian

[Silver-Arrowz]

If you get the power fc you can remap the timing/fuel/air and it can get rid of pinging. But that really depends on the tuner so get a good one. Peak power doesn't mean the world. Since getting mine it's got way more midrange power/torque than before. Top end is just a bonus. Turbo is good for 1 bar. With stock cooler.... my mate blew piston and bottom end with 1 bar on a hot day. Car had stock cooler and ecu. It's a S15. That should give you a rough idea.

[predator]

on standard turbo? EBC or not, it's not likely to last long

True, but I never run at high boost all the time. If the turbo blows, the turbo blows and "oh well, i have to buy a new bigger one". which is probably what i'd want to do after that anyway.

Ok, what i probably meant to say with the PowerFC, the handcontroller is not true rice factor as in its useless and just for show.. but it can be like that if you're not using it to adjust PowerFC settings yourself and know what they all mean.

What i was getting more at is that unless you want to change things yourself and want to fully tune your own car (and maybe you do - everybody is different), you can probably do without spending the extra on it. As 2rismo was saying, its a full computer and needs to be fully tuned by somebody who knows what they are doing.

[Blackness]

The Power FC seems like a great option on paper and from what you guys are saying ...

(It would be interesting to see a comparision between simlar mod R33s, one runing a power FC and one running Autronic)

I have heard some people have had some intial problems running the Power FC with a non APEX boost controler (not sure if just a bleed valve or anonther eletronic boost unit) Does any one know if this is the case?

[Jay95R33]

If your thinking about going for a EBC and a PFC one day, you might want to look at getting the PFC boost controler. It hooks up to and is controled by the PFC.

But I think the problem with that is you won't have the switch/press button hi/lo settings that you have at the moment.

Just a thought....

J

[predator]

But I think the problem with that is you won't have the switch/press button hi/lo settings that you have at the moment.

Its probably selectable in the hand controller that i said he wouldn't need

Yeah, it will be interesting to see whether the boost controller addon for PowerFC is good, worse, or better than any external EBC.

[benm]

I've driven my car on 12psi boost for about 15mins in total over 4.5mths

I don't see the need to flick the switch which is why im wanting the max power i can get out of a Stock turbo @ 7psi.

[Silver-Arrowz]

Originally posted by predator666

Ok, what i probably meant to say with the PowerFC, the handcontroller is not true rice factor as in its useless and just for show.. but it can be like that if you're not using it to adjust PowerFC settings yourself and know what they all mean.  

I don't know how to tune and don't pretend I know, but I find this as a very useful tool for monitoring the engine especially at the race tracks. I love this H/C cause I can remove it and hide it in the glove compartment when I leave the car. Guages aren't easily hidden, and I would need 8 guages to show me in what the PowerFC HC shows me in 1.

[Steve]

The next thing you should be doing is upgrading your clutch, also take a close look at your injector duty, with a power fc and at 191rwkw my injectors were at 77% after it was tuned, and running higher before.

Now that I have a Z32 afm (the stock afm was hitting peak voltage at 5.1v), and have selected VG30AFM on the power fc hand controller (very handy), my injectors are up to 89%, becuase the power fc defaults to a conservative fuel map once the selection of VG30AFM has been made. Sorry starting to drift here, to cut to the chase, with a stock ecu and its conservative (rich) fuel mapping, you may be leaning out your injectors and perhaps a fuel pressure reg would help - when you get the power fc that is.

I have the power fc EBC and it is very accurate and stable. It has different boost levels that you can select between - very straight forward, and you can adjust these levels too, to dial in any boost you require. About the only down side is that you can't control boost in specific gears, which would be handy for launches.

I picked my Power FC, handcontroller and boost controler for $1800 from an importer (second hand), also nengun has had this type of setup for about $16-1700 from memory.

As for your pinging, I had a similar problem and replaced the plugs with NGK BCPR6ES, they are a heat range colder than stock and gapped to 0.8mm instead of the stock 1.1mm, and no more detonation. Total cost, less than $20.

Dump and front pipe upgrade is pretty good too, quicker spool up, not too sure about power as I got mine done just before getting a FMIC, but if you do go with a new dump and front, I would highly recommend getting it heat wrapped or coated to help scavanging and keep underbonnet temps down.

Just me 0.02

Steve

[Jay95R33]

I'd get the hand controler for sure.

Apart from all the info you can see on them, I love the thought of dropping my car off for a service/new tyres/detail etc and setting the rev limit to 2800rpm

Or I'm sure there would be a way of tuning one thing on the fuel or ignition maps so the car wouldn't start at all. Good if your leaving your car in a high theft area.

That'll stuff'em

[EVL R33]

Definately go the Power FC first. I had on put in my gtst and gained between 30 and 40 rwhp from 3000 to 6000rpm with no changes to boost pressure or anything. Trust me you can definately feel that extra mid range power!!!

The very first thing I bought when I got my GTR was a Power FC, it's going in end of this month so I'll let ya know the power gain there too.

Blackness, the problem you stated about usine non apexi boost controllers with the PFC is simple. When you first plug the PFC in it assumes the boost kit is also installed. All you have to do is turn the boost 'off' and then you can use any one you want....

Brett

[benm]

Ok so far i have been told to do:

Clutch

PowerFC

Front 1/2 of exhaust

hrmmm

[Guest azazel]

No point in changing ur clutch till it dies.

It'll probably last a while yet.

[Driftn 180]

the pinging my friend is caused by you using shit ass fuel(96ron vortex stuff), you shouldnt push more than 8 psi with that fuel, you need at least 98 ron fuel so your motor dont ping, use 98ron if you want to push 12 psi, that will solv your problem, not a power fc.

*in most cases you cannot even hear the car when it pings, it is in the worst when you can actually hear a clutter coming out of the motor, that is extreeme pinging....very dangerous to the life of the motor.

[benm]

I think the powerfc is the way to go. I cleaned my exhaust pipe like only 10 days ago and its sooo chockered with black soot that my car must be running -very- rich.

If it can give me an extra 30km/tank and an extra 15rwkw with my current mods then the money will be worth it i think.

[benm]

Originally posted by Driftn 180

the pinging my friend is caused by you using shit ass fuel(96ron vortex stuff), you shouldnt push more than 8 psi with that fuel, you need at least 98 ron fuel so your motor dont ping, use 98ron if you want to push 12 psi, that will solv your problem, not a power fc.

I didn't realise Vortex was only 96ron until the dyno day and -every- tank since has been optimax 98ron.

*in most cases you cannot even hear the car when it pings, it is in the worst when you can actually hear a clutter coming out of the motor, that is extreeme pinging....very dangerous to the life of the motor.

The pinging was "ever so slight" so the dyno guy said while he was wearing some headset connected to the motor.