Full-Race Geoff
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Posts posted by Full-Race Geoff
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Air filter restriction on matchbot might come close in some instances at sea level but overall is inaccurate at simulating a Restriction orifice. We went through this with a rally team and BW engineering a few years back and they concluded there weren't enough people asking for this support to warrant further development of the software with a restriction orifice input.
@discopotato03my understanding agrees with yours, singlescroll small turbos with restrictors and antilag gets it done. this got further compounded by the cracking of dividers in turbine housings compared to the convenience of a vband clamp. IMHO - with the quality of today's investment castings I think the conclusion might be different.
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we have (2) 8474 in stock, dont know of any other distributor with inventory. Full Race has a couple 9280 and 8374 as well. Dont know how long until we see more
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On 11/23/2023 at 9:12 PM, CowsWithGuns said:
I've been trying to source an EFR7163 TS for a couple of weeks now (for not $5000+) and it's just non existent. Anyone know what's the deal with this or know any SECRET STASHES of this rare loot?
Full Race is getting these turbos in small amounts and we always keep the housings in stock. Let me know exactly what you are looking for - depending on the configuration we may be able to help in some capacity.
Worth noting we have a good amount of EFR 7670, 8370 and 8374 (for the first time in 2 years)
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yep, overspeed. a 3.1 or greater pressure ratio at 80+ lb/min corrected flow is off the G35-900 map (red X area)
and right along with ya @Lithium
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On 10/10/2023 at 3:19 PM, hattori hanzo said:
anyone else had G35 900s or similar fail from running 2bar of boost?
Can you please elaborate on your full setup? Im interested to see how the match plots
-altitude
-fuel used
-exact engine displacement
-max engine speed (RPM)
-max boost target (2 bar or 2.5 bar?)
-what rpm are you fully spooled and WG open
-cyl head and cam spec
-downpipe / exhaust size and config, muffler used, air filter setup, etc.
. The g series are optimized for response and low inertia, while I have not blown up any of the G35-900 and i absolutely love the turbo, I saw (2) g25's die from high altitude overspeed many years ago and learned to respect turbo speed the same as any other high end piece of equipment.
edit:
@lithium - funny that the big drag race precision turbos have speed sensor ports now 😁-
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On 9/21/2023 at 11:19 PM, Kinkstaah said:
Make the car useful. Summer is coming. Rule #1 has got to be "make sure the car does not annoy you, and gives smiles instead". I now look at people who make 450kw and know the hassles that come with all of it, and smile and am happy to be off the crazy E85 crack train and running things at 101%.
Go 7163, go simple, run under max threshhold, kick the shit out of it, put on aircon, listen to music, enjoy life.
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23 hours ago, StubbyFoil said:
Is there any ETA when these other turbochargers will be available? It seems that they are trickling back into the market, but most shops have 6 month or longer wait times.
Which turbocharger exactly? Full Race has a very small supply of 8374 and 9274. *8474 arriving this week, not sure if theyre already reserved or available
On 9/15/2023 at 12:58 PM, StubbyFoil said:Any ETA's on the 8474? Or would you recommend the 9274 for around 800whp 2.8l? Also, I'm thinking about just doing a 3.5" downpipe and exhaust, but running either a boost activated loud valve or just an electronic cutout. Maybe I will try this same concept but with 4" downpipe, and have the cutout in the 4" section. Either way, the cylinder head is finished, and the long block is almost done at the machine shop. I will be sure to post results with the data I've collected from dyno. Thanks again for all the info!
8474 and 9274 are back in small batch production right now. the 9274 moves a little more air, the 8474 spools a little earlier. 800whp 2.8L match will largely depend on max engine speed, fuel used and elevation. turbine housing should be selected based on the boost target. they will fit the same downpipe.
note - the 6870 downpipe will not fit the EFR turbos; precision outlet vbands are in a different location from garrett and BW
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On 9/10/2023 at 5:00 PM, The Mafia said:
Being a circuit car, I am considering switching to the 1.45AR rear housing to make the power more transient, to stop it emapping itself, and to be more gentle on the hotside to reduce wear and provide longevity
for what it's worth Scott K @ Emtron loves the 1.45 a/r - we supply him EFR turbos and almost always with 1.45 hotside
On 9/13/2023 at 6:54 AM, StubbyFoil said:I am currently building an R33 GTR with almost the exact same setup, Nitto 2.8, GSC 268/270 cams, mild port head etc. My dream turbo was the EFR 8474 Black, but they are nearly impossible to come by
Full Race has 9274 and 8374 in stock now if you're looking for something. the 6870 is a higher-inertia turbocharger (drag race oriented)
On 9/13/2023 at 6:54 AM, StubbyFoil said:Do you think a 4" downpipe with a 3.5" exhaust would help?
in my experience a 4" downpipe with 3.5" exhaust is an excellent compromise. often times the larger diameter downpipe gets the job done and the smaller diameter exhaust keeps your eardrums intact
On 9/10/2023 at 3:31 PM, Lithium said:If a 68mm 9180 is not big enough for a RB32 your only choice is a 74mm EFR9280 which fixes the problem but definitely comes at cost in terms of spool *and* you really need to go the 1.45a/r hotside to make the most of it
worth noting the 9280 compressor actually has less inertia than the 9180 compressor. Scotty K @ emtron shared some logs with me that indicate virtually no loss of spool between the two. Although BW has not produced 9280 or 9180 in the last 2 years so it may be a bit more time until that changes.
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16 hours ago, The Mafia said:
Hey mate, any specials for the SAU team? I have an EFR 8474 Black series on my RB28 and it has the 1.0AR rear. I think it's choking up. Do you have any back to back dynos / comparisons of the smaller and larger rears?
Depending on how high you rev the 2.8, and your boost level - choking can happen with 1.05 a/r. If you can log turbo speed and backpressure it's insightful into making a change.
The 1.45 a/r back to backs are deceiving - on the steady state dyno they look like identical spool. but on the street, its anywhere from 150-400rpm later spool depending on gear.
I'd be happy to crunch the #s for a match if you wanted to know what the calculations show?
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Full Race stocks the 1.45 a/r turbine housing, can ship immediately if you're in need.
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On 4/28/2023 at 6:47 AM, SLVRBAKSLPZ said:
Any recent dyno results of a 9180 or 9280??
EFR turbos have largely been unavailable for the last 18 months so until BW resumes production its likely going to be pretty quiet
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one area to compare for genuine garrett vs pulsar is wheel to housing clearance. the smaller the gap the better. i saw a pulsar in person and it had one of the largest gaps ive seen for a ball bearing turbocharger
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gtx3582R gen2 is a great turbo from the previous generation. i can understand why youd love it on that 2.7L
but the g35-1050 is very different. you might be happier with the g35-900 or the g40 if youre targetting bigger power
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On 10/18/2022 at 12:03 PM, Borci88 said:
I'm aiming for 500+rwkw without going 35psi, while hopefully still, being more responsive than my -5s.
Racepace RB28 bottom end
RB25 NEO Non-Turbo head with VCT
RB25 Neo Turbo STOCK Intake camshaft / HKS 260 degree Exhaust camshaft (mismatch I know)
3" HKS Exhaust with front pipes and decat
E85
Haltech Elite 2500
Approximately 435rwkw @ 23psiI've been told that a GTX3582RS GEN 2 would be the go-er, which seems like is it roughly equal to a G35-900 anyway.. and even then, due to the small head, would I be better off with a .83 dual V-Band rear housing? Or go larger and get the 1.01 dual v-band rear housing? Pulsar now also sell a .85 twin scroll T4 as well.
I assume a G30 isn't going to cut the mustard for 500+kw though?
For those who haven't seen, Racepace recently ran up a G35-900 with SIMILAR setup to mine and made 565rwkw on 26psi
what is your max engine RPM? Are you using STOCK valvetrain? this is the biggest factor you didn't mention. Also important to consider if you're at sea level or elevation?
Genuine G35-900 sounds like the go here. Or if you're looking for bang-for-the-buck Genuine Garrett GTX3582R Gen2 is a great performer with the twinscroll housing but gets very tight and hard to plumb on an RB. FYI there is no GTX3582RS and the GTX3584RS is not a great turbo.
I never recommend anything pulsar they are to turbos what ROTA is to wheels.
On 10/18/2022 at 7:11 PM, r32-25t said:I’d use the g35 because the rb engines love the bigger rear wheels. Personally I’d use a 1.0x twin scroll rear housing, the different in response by using the twin scroll rear really makes them the only choice
+1
On 10/18/2022 at 6:31 PM, GTSBoy said:If response is important, then you will likely prefer the twin scroll option over the V band options, although I** worry that the TS 0.85 rear will limit the 500kW target.
+2
On 10/18/2022 at 7:32 PM, Borci88 said:My fear is that a I'll spend all this money converting to single turbo, and a G30-900 won't even be able to crack 500kw. Both the G30 and G35 come in a .85 Twin Scroll rear housing if I bought a Pulsar version which is good, however if I was to go any bigger AR then I would be sacrificing twin scroll to go to V-Band.
I think you and GTSBoy are on the same page and I have been leaning towards the G35 all along (only with one friend of mine screaming in my ear to go G30). I'll need to go back through this thread to find some more results but I seem to remember G35-900s making very good power (500+kW) out of smaller rear housings, something which the older turbos weren't as capable of..
I also see that @Full-Race Geoff is fond of the .6x rear housings and smaller rear housings throughout the entire G series rangeto be clear we like smaller *mono scroll* turbine housings for the G series. When it comes to twinscroll you want to be around 1.0 a/r - anything smaller will usually choke regardless of the turbine wheel
Your fear is totally warranted if going with Pulsar... all bets are off. its a counterfeit knockoff and I dont know why anyone would take it seriously? If cost is the issue go with an airwerks SXE or a GTX3582R Gen2.
Not sure if talking Garrett G30 or "pulsar g30" but your friend recommending the g30 might not realize there is no free lunch... the smaller turbine does not necessarily mean earlier spool in a 'mismatch' scenario with twinscroll housing. G30-770 or G35-900 is my preference
On 10/18/2022 at 8:56 PM, Dose Pipe Sutututu said:I personally would go G35 turbine side as well
Another option is to go to a Precision 6266 Gen 2, just run an oil filter, oil pressure relief valve and you should be pretty good.
The 6266 is pretty outdated at this point in time.. We still sell heaps of them but I dont know why people keep buying
On 10/19/2022 at 3:11 AM, Borci88 said:everythings pointing to a G35-900 however, as I'd like it to come on full boost closer to 4000... however maybe I'm being optimistic.
not a 2.8L RB engine, but a g30-770 vs g35-900 single-scroll comparison on 2JZ from my canadian buddies at speed academy:
On 10/19/2022 at 5:11 AM, r32-25t said:If response and low down torque is important I really recommend going the twin scroll option, atp in America do a 1.06 t4 ts housing for the g35s
agreed- great turbo just be aware its tough to plumb the oil drain and water fittings on that turbine casting due to the narrow GTX35 chra.
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On 9/14/2022 at 8:28 PM, Lithium said:
3litre 2JZ with a VVTi head running a 1.05a/r EFR8474. 830hp @ hubs at 25psi, 111,000rpm turbine speed, 39psi EMAP... so safe wheel speed but EMAP is getting up there, which is why I'd push for the 1.45a/r hotside:
thats a great result, especially considering the 1.05 a/r! What fuel was this on? agree the 1.45 could be a beast on there but the lowend on this 2jz has to be a LOT of fun
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I dont know many people using the G40. but its one of the most impressive modern 1000hp capable turbos. people seem hesitant on them and I'm not sure why. Fact is, G40 has outstanding wheels, great housings and modern connections. If i were building a beast of a large displacement RB engine, G40 is the turbo I'd run
a friend with a high end porsche shop did a back-to-back-to-back thats sorta relevant here - 991TT, 4.1L, 38psi boost,
Precision 6466 0.82 a/r (red) vs G35-900 0.83 a/r(blue)
made me fall in love with the G35-900
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Hi everyone, Im writing from Full Race. we are updating our ETS pro system and need to find a donor gauge cluster that can be used on our test bench. If anyone has anything R32 / R33 / R34 please let me know [email protected]
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yes 100%
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On 4/14/2022 at 11:25 AM, Rand0b said:
the g30-770 = gtx3076
why wouldn't the g35-900 = gtx3582?
I am on the fence of g30-900 vs g35-900
Built RB25 stock cams 6-700whp goal pump 93 Street car
willing to sacrifice some spool time (~500rpm)
If the power delivery is better /linear for g35
theres a lot to consider when picking a turbo! compressor diameter to turbine diameter ratio is something i think about a lot aka "match ratio". traditional match ratios might be 1.07 to 1.11 for OEM turbos (or borgwarner turbos for that matter). In comparison the garrett GT and GTX turbos had aggressively sized "large" compressors on fairly small turbines.
GT3076 = 76mm compressor : 60mm turbine (1.26 ratio)
GT3582 = 82mm compressor: 68mm turbine (1.20 ratio)now that the G series redefined what a given turbine or compressor diameter is capable of flowing, i suggest the thinking around wheel sizes might also change. This is why the G35-900 (1.11 ratio) might outperform the G35-1050 (1.20) and the G30-770 (1.18) might outperform the G30-900 (1.26 ratio). this gets complicated by which turbine wheel and housing are being used, on what exhaust manifold and engine configuration.
to your question:
G30-770 in old garrett = G3071
G35-900 in old garrett = G3576for a built 2.5L RB25 targeting 600-700whp you could pick a range, 600? or 700. twinscroll G30-770 would be my vote for 550-600. G35-900 would be a recommendation for 650-700.
On 4/17/2022 at 1:54 AM, R_34 said:Same boat for me, I snatched a G30-660 supercore for my RB20, still trying to decide between .61 and .83 A/R, I was vouching for the .83 but the comment of geoff about the G series liking the small A/R more is confusing me.
RB20s aren't stellar at spool up and torque generation and G30 turbine flows a ton.... so whatever you can do focus on generating a broad useable powerband, getting the turbo online in the least amount of rev's is usually a net positive. focusing on dyno HP is usually ego measuring contest. just my opinion (most people on the internet disagree with me fwiw)
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On 3/20/2022 at 1:40 PM, Lithium said:
this is the clincher, a good turbo match is often worth more performance wise than the extra 5-10% or whatever performance you may get from a much fancier turbo.
So, TL;DR version: There may be legit failures but I'm not aware of any beyond where people have tried pushing a setup I could have told them would cause issues before they started. If you're going T4 twin scroll then I don't think Garrett even have a native exhaust housing option for the GTX range, and I personally wouldn't hesitate to use a G-series on an RB25 because the boost range you'd be looking at fit right in the "happy boost zone" of the G-series range.
a G30-770 with a divided hotside has potential to be quite hilarious
Hi Lith
-100% agree that a good turbo match is mission critical for any of these modern turbos. the old mindset of "go big or go home" just isnt the right way to go about selecting a turbo anymore
-for G25 and the entire G series lineup, I prefer the smaller A/R housing. agree that 0.9 is too big, but i also think 0.8 is still oversized. the 0.7 is my preference in almost all instances. I did like the 0.49 for some applications too but thats no longer available. Overall GTX/GT used larger A/R and G series likes the smaller A/R with its "little beast" of a turbine wheel
-i dont fully agree about the "bullshit claims for numbers". I also was dubious originally, but ive seen many cases where the turbo is pushed to the limit (or beyond the limit) and the crank HP claims rang true. BUT larger A/R does not mean more power. as you said its all about getting the turbo match right
-I fully agree that the turbines are very impressive and will overspeed if you let them! As you know the turbine wheels are Mar-M which isnt quite as forgiving to abuse as inconel. In the case of g series failures, all that we've seen here were consistent with overspeed. I have a Civic Type R customer who broke (2) G25-660s, both 0.72 a/r and IWG, at 650-660whp both were overspeed failures. I was kinda mindblown that its even possible to reach that power level on the G25
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what manifold are you using? If singlescroll vband, then g30-900 could be interesting. if twinscroll t4 then g35-900 might be the preference. these motors are sensitive to preturbine backpressure, so managing that is the key to getting this right
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HKS new line of turbos based on G series chra:
GT_4950BB = G25 (49mm exducer turbine wheel)GT_6290BB = G35 (62mm exducer turbine wheel)GT_7595BB = G42 (75mm exducer turbine wheel)-
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On 9/2/2021 at 3:18 AM, Lithium said:On 9/2/2021 at 3:18 AM, Lithium said:
the owned decided to give a Pulsar (Garrett copy) G25-660 with a .72 hotside a crack,
What I can say is that, as expected - the turbo feels a lot lazier than you'd expect
Lith... basing anything on a counterfeit amazon knockoff seems disingenuous
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the g30 spools like a gtx3076, with HP and airflow in the Gtx35 size range. They are impressive turbos, but the naming and nomenclature is a little confusing, if it was up to me G25 would be called G30, G30 would be called G35, etc
Borg Warner EFR Series Turbo's V 2.0
in Forced Induction Performance
Posted
this isnt the thread for this convo, but im becoming a believer of the xona turbos for high pressure ratios. i started testing them on S58 high boost setup and very impressed so far - especially considering their packaging