Cjmartz2k

From the second comparison link given.

Just to clarify I was being sarcastic--I run a Holset which is a close cousin to the Borg-Warners and was catching a bunch of flak from people basically saying if it wasn't a Garrett GT series, it was crap. These B-W's, especially with the extended tip technologies do some amazing things.

That just not possible!! It's bush bearing diesel "old tech", costs much less, and can be rebuilt for cheap! There's no way it can be better than a garret!!

Frank, PM me if you want to meet up and take a look.

They are expensive. A buddy of mine here on Okinawa is running one on his evo. 2bar out of a GT35r all day long--one sode of the intercooler is hot as hell, the other side feels almost ambiant temp right after a run under the hot hood. And he's just using regular water, but he could put ice water in it if he wanted.

Frank, are you on zeroyon?

Hey Regan, I just noticed this thread. A popular combo here on Okinawa is 256 poncam for intake and HKS 264 for exhaust. Lets you keep VCT which really helps with spool IMHO. I think you can squeeze a bit more out of that turbo, but not much. I could see 600rwhp, but that would REALLY be pushing it. Biger cams sound sweet though. I'll have to get a vid with my HKS 264's idling and send them to you. You'd probably need a set of valve springs though--I'm running tomei springs and tickling 8k rpm on a regular basis. Peak torque around 7.2krpm though, so shifting about 7.5 is probably best for speed. I think I need a little bit bigger a/r exhaust housing. For your purposes, the spray might be better, but I just don't know much about N20 on top of a turbo set up. I've heard forced induction cars really like N20 because it acts like a chemical intercooler, but those cylinder pressures must be intense!

While this may be the case, I still can't see a GT30 anything making 570rwhp. TheMafia on here is running one with water/meth injection and is around 400rwhp. Maybe he can get more out of it, but 170hp more? Also, no matter what a GT30r can make, the BW S360 is a MUCH bigger turbo with MUCH higher hp capabilities. It's bigger than a GT35r. I'm not trying to say the GT3076 isn't a fantastic turbo, it just shouldn't be compared to a GT3076.

I don't think any of the RB guys have been able to even come close to that number. I just spend 20 minutes going through the RB25 dyno thread and all the results I have seen so far for the GT3076 have been in the 240-290rwkw. The GT35r guys are putting down the kinds of numbers you are talking about though. I have also looked at several different sites and all the guys who are selling them advertise them as 500hp turbo's (not rwhp). And about the 10's, super light weight honda's and not much heavier Evo's with AWD don't need much hp to run 10's.

http://forums.evolutionm.net/service-parts...roll-gt35r.html Seems not so in this case. Also, I think the BW S360 is a way bigger turbo than a GT30r series turbo. It's a 69lb/min turbo so it should make close to 700hp at the motor. It's pretty much the same thing as my HX40 holset. Here is a 300zx/FairladyZ running a BW360 in the states. Full weight (around 3600lb's) running mid 10's. http://forums.nicoclub.com/zerothread/3814...-damned-time10s

570 at the motor, right? The B-W's, from what I understand, run in generations kinda like the holsets (and Schweitzer for that matter). The non-extended tip ones are pretty much spot on with the holset HX series. The ones you are talking about being altered are still factory BW pieces, just the newer generation. BW and holset used to be real buddy buddy, but they split somewhat on the last generation of turbo's each produced. BW went in the direction of "extended tip technology" and holset went on to variably geometry exhaust housings in their HE series. *Edit-BTW, that RB26'd 300zx is on NICO and I talk with him frequently on there. I think he went from a GT series to a BW looking for better response and found it IIRC.

How much was it? Just curious as I bought mine used.

I'm running RB26 ITB's on my RB25 head with an adapter plate. It works just fine. There has been some discussion about the angle of the fuel injectors being off and people redrilling the seats, but I haven't and to say mine runs "ok" would be a bit of an understatement

What are the specifics on that Borg Warner? Compressor/Turbine size? What a/r ex housing? How does it spool?

I just noticed somebody on here is running a B-W S300 making 600awhp running 10 sec 1/4's. http://www.skylinesaustralia.com/forums/10...ra-t249485.html

Disco, you refer to them as "old", but they are out performing the "new" GT series in every way I can measure--or do you disagree on that point? Again, looking for good honest opinions. I like having a nice intelligent discussion about these things, so please don't think I'm being argumentative. I do agree though that the B-W's come on a couple hundred RPM quicker and flow a lb or two more up top. They are a bit more modern design, but what is that performance difference when I can get a used Holset for $200USD compared to a B-W for $1200USD new? I'd go B-W all things being equal, but I'm not rich

I've seen people here on Okinawa use the cable from a 300zx/Fairlady Z and it worked perfectly.

I think it's actually the compressor and turbine design in general. The B-W's with out the extended as well as there cousins (holsets) all have the same characteristic of really outperforming thier garrett counterparts at higher boost levels. I guess it might have to do with originaly being designed to run on a diesel at over 2 bar. I think most of them are mapped to 3 bar. I'm thinking about getting meth injection and punching the boost up to around 2 bar. I'm at 1.7 now with under 20 counts of knock (again, stock bottom end). **Cliff notes for anybody who didn't feel like clicking that link that juggernaut posted-- Borg-Warner S300 spooled exactly the same if not a little quicker than a twin scroll GT35r and made around 15 more hp starting from the midrange on up on back to back dyno runs on the same car (Evo).

Very interesting read. Also interesting to note those are almost the exact same measurements of my compressor (60mm inducer, 84mm exducer). I wonder if that test will change some minds? *Edit--I just noticed the GT35r they compared it too was a twin scroll housing. Are most of the GT30/35's out there twin scroll?

Not that there aren't some impressive giant Holset turbo's out there, but see you guys looking at the big ones and think you are missing the main point of the smaller ones like the HY/HX35 and HX40 (not that a almost 700hp capable turbo is small). HX35's are spooling like GT30's and flowing like the smaller GT35r's. That's what I find impressive.

You need to get the measurements on the wheels, not the holes. That will give a lot better idea of what it is. It looks like one of the older designs though. Anybody know what kind of spool times GT30r's and GT35r's do on a RB25?

So Garrett is moving more towards what Holset and Borg-Warner produce for trim sizes? I agree the one major drawback to Holset turbo's is the physical size (or plus in my case because it freaks people out when I pop the hood ) It does make for a stout, well built turbo though. Again, my main draw to these is the performance to cost ratio. I won't argue that they do or do not outperform Garrett BB's till I'm blue in the face, but I can for certain say the performance is close enough for it not to matter (although I do think they outperform). Unfortunatly, it seems for you guys it'll be considerably harder to procure them as cheaply as we can in the states. They are real expensive turbo's to get new from the OEM, but we can get them cheap used from all the pick up trucks they come off of here, as well as surplus supplies of turbo's like HX52's that somehow "fell off the back of the truck" . I feel your pain on the weak dollar front. My USD here in japan is now only worth 89Y where it was over 125Y to the dollar when I got here. I've also seen the non-extended tip BW's (S200 and S300 series) and they looked promising but I just didn't see near as much proven aftermarket research and usage by DIY'ers as well as such a ready supply of turbos. Disco, have you drawn any independant conclusions on how these things perform from you researching? You seem to be looking into Holsets from a pretty impartial perspective.

I'm at work right now so I can't see pics, but which pics are you talking about? I'm running a RB25 if it's any of my pictures.

I think it'll be a tough squeeze trying to fit one of them down on the side of the motor, but I'm not going to discourage you from trying! I had one of the old bottom mount HKS manifolds when I ran my HX35/40 hybrid on my R32. We needed to notch the crossmember to clear the compressor cover on it. Remember, these things are not as compact size wise as their garrett counterparts. The W means wastegate, but I can't remeber if that means it needs an external, or has an internal. I haven't heard of to many people using the internal gates on them. You would have to port the piss out of it at the very least, but maybe people just don't do it because it's so easy to go external wastegate. We don't have many bolt on options for a reasonable price here on Okinawa, so I just assume that when people talk about putting on a decent sized turbo, they are going to be planning for a whole setup, i.e; manifold (I prefer top mount for the room), external wastegate, FMIC with piping, custom dump, etc. I'll try and post up a picture I have of the size of these things when I get home.

I'm not sure if you guys can get them down there or not locally. Do you all have Dodge Cummins pick up trucks running around down there? American ebay would be your best bet, but shipping would probably be a bit more than the standard $50 or so dollars I pay to get it here to japan. They are oil cooled, no water lines. No manifold with these. That would be an RB specific item, although HX35 are all (I believe) T3 flanged, so the will likely bolt right up. I bolted a HX40 up to a stock manifold, but it was just sitting on the floor, not in the car. The 4G63 guys use their internaly gated custom housings from Bullseye Performance, which they also make in a T3 flange, so if you want to stay internal, I'd look at that. I'm not sure to many people try using the stock housing like that, but I have heard of some. Plan on running a lot of boost though. I don't think the internal gate will flow enough to keep it under 1.5 bar plus on the stock housing. That's just what I've heard though. I'd honestly go external gate if I were you.