Max_ST-R

Wow, magnificent video! It's obvious that Italians like the GT-R too! (bit of a suprise there)....and it's obvious there is some rivalry with the F430 Scuderia guy too!. Videos like this really put into perspective just how incredible the GT-R is, not only does the F430 Scuderia weigh alot less, it's a track special with Carbon Ceramic brakes...and it was under brakes the Gt-R was closing in!. Both cars are awsome though, I'd love to have both!.. There will be times you want the GT-R's crushing ability, there will be times you want the Ferrari's glamour and engine/exhaust note!

fungoolie, It's not just Jamie Whincup, ask just about ANY race car driver. I follow F1 and drive-ability is THE crucial factor no matter which driver they talk to. At the end of the day if you find it too hard to keep it on the black stuff lap after lap then you won't get the most out of it. The 'hero's' that talk up mega-power rwd are ALL TALK, there are very few people who can extract 100% and tame such a car. I'd like to see these people drive their ZR-1 and Viper at the limit and as HARD as they would a Gt-R or 911 Turbo....we both know the answer to that.

...In a bad mood are we Kujotk?...what happen did your maserati BREAK DOWN.....AGAIN.........

Excuse ME!...for having an opinion or citing observational evidence, I thought this was an OPEN THREAD and I thought I was quite balanced in my argument. I always try and maintain a certain decorum in my posts and I also try and be calm and logical in my posts. I don't resort to using childish assessments of any car (or people), & I also acknowledged the strengths and weaknesses of a car I comment on. I thought this was a friendly blog where there was respect for one another other, but if you and Kujotic want to be smart-arses ......no worries SO BE IT........

I don't know if these are claimed or observed times, but, I reckon you'd have to be Dario Benuzzi (ferrari test driver) to be getting those times out of a 'regular' Ferrari 360...you'd have a better chance with the 360 Challenge Stradale and even then most times seem to be low to mid 4's for 0-100km/h. for example In 1999 the 360's performance was right up there, (which is why I think some people here have been unfairly critical here) but in reality , in 2009 it's no comparison with an R35 and many others for that matter. The main problem is lack of torque, 373Nm..and it's at about 7,000 rpm too!, on a roll a Gt-R (or 911 turbo) will absolutely walk away and disappear into the distance....a non contest...a more interesting and fairer comparison will be the 425kw/550NM 458 Italia, I think it will match the R35 in the dry...but at $550K of course!

"...ZR1 that fails, besides being more expensive than the GTR. That thing is a feat of engineering from a country known for going fast in a straight line. ACR Viper even more impressive" - Birds The ZR-1 is an awsome machine, fast, sexy with a great noise...BUT like the Viper ACR, you need to have perfect weather/road/track conditions to have any hope of exploiting it to its full potential and you need to be very adept at handling these cars on the limit. A recent European track test was a lot more blunt saying something along the lines of "the Zr-1 just feels like its always trying to kill you" It came last against a V12 Vantage, Audi R8 V10 and 911 Gt3 (which won the test). Everyone has an interpretation, some people think this adds to the fun factor and some people think the Nissan is too clinical becuase perhaps it's 'too good' This has been brought up before, but mere mortals will extract alot more out of a forgiving AWD Audi, Porsche or Nissan...over the Vette or Viper..in which they are much more likely to end up swapping ends at high speed if they are not 100% careful. You can't under estimate user friendliness...even F1 drivers put a high value on a car that is forgiving and easy to drive over a car that maybe faster but always having to fight. I think from an engineering point of view, getting a 1740kg car to match a car with 120kw more power, 250Nm more torque and 200kg less weight on a race track is a more remarkable acheivement.

You beat me to it! I love the Audi R8 and R8 V10 and in many ways I have no problem with an equal first victory with the GT-R, I can imagine that both cars are very evenly matched talent wise. In a straight line they seem to be neck and neck with a minor advantage to the Audi...but see the lap time? GT-R a full 1.5 seconds faster!...I'm sure there is more to it than lap time, but if the judges couldn't seperate the 2 in terms of talent then by jingos the R8's price tag should have done the trick!.... as tested $384,857!!! the GT-R's $157,550 - a price difference of $227,307!!. That is an OBSCENE amount of $$$ difference. Money isn't everything, but I think that is too high an amount to ignore.....and I wonder where my 2 young kids will sit in the R8, as well as my overnight bags..or groceries or Golf clubs...is the ride in the GT-R REALLY that harsh??? For looks the R8 is a winner...but if the GT-R was in red or black (with the black wheels) I reckon it looks nearly as good IMO..

Just my two bobs. I can see where in the top end of the corporate world where a Ferrari would be seen as superior to the GT-R (although I am suprised at how many rich people, know and respect the GT-R)...but my argument would be that when you are that high up the food chain in the corporate world...a 10 year old 360 might be looked upon as a bit old and dare I say a try hard. I would suggest that a more modern (and comfortable) F430 or 612 would make the 'right' impression...but most likely something like a Merc CL600 or AMG equivelant is the type of car that an exec high flyer would take clients out in, an older 360 may come across as noisy and slightly nasty drug dealers car! To be honest I love them all, I'd love to have all of them, but I love the GT-R the most, for me it's simply the best in so many ways. Some of the anti-Ferrari comments here are a bit harsh and many miss the point that its not just about the speed, on the other hand im suprised at some of the anti-R35 comments, regardless of the badge it is a stand out supercar and it's obvious alo of people feel that way...the sales speak for themselves.

Indeed, it isn't an exact science, one thing that skews this further here esp with Mercs, Porsche & BMW- are the options. I see numbers being fired off left , right and centre here about GT2 's and CLS AMG, has anyone gone thru the options list on either of these vehicles? I have (its part of what I do for a living). Just because a GT2 has an rrp of circa $450K for example, the options may push it closer to $500,000 then the on-roads. customisation is a big part of the purchase experience with these cars and more often than not, the price paid for these options new is disproportionate to what they get on a trade in, so the reality is that the real story can be even worse!

Agreed, wholsesalers don't want to touch ANY import, although we did trade an immaculate 3 door Turbo Pulsar back in 2000. Im sure there is a market for CHEAP imported Euros I'm sure there are groups of people who will buy them...and usually becase they are so much CHEAPER than locally delivered - & wasn't that the original argument?. .....if it was my money I would feel much more comfortable trying to off-load a stock JDM GT-R, over a hotted 360 from Honkers, a Ferrari purist would cringe at the thought of an aftermarket body on a 360, worse still if they knew it was a grey import. With the Nissans or any Japanese, grey imports are a major part of the scene..to say that Euro grey imports has ANYTHING like the proliferation as Japanese is completely laughable, it isn't the done thing and not as 'natural' as you suggest. What is interesting to see is how many of those cars REMAIN on the Carsales website, and for how long, and when sold what price they acheive if & when they are sold. If you think a grey import Gallardo or 911 turbo is treated no differently to a local delivery by the average punter, that's fine, it's your money not mine! My only agenda is only a benevolent one, I wouldn't want to see any of my fellow forum members find themselves in the shit, it's a shame people want misinterpret this as something else... by all means piss your own money up the wall...but I don't think it's right advising others to do the same...

............provided you can find a buyer for a Hong Kong special Ferrari. In theory a 360 should hold its value in the long term (although this will largely be eaten away by exhorbitant repair costs and servicing)...but the reality is people will want to be DULY COMPENSATED for buying a car which is readily available locally, with FSH and a previous owner you can chat to. The grey import mentality that exists amongts Japanese car enthusiasts is just not part of the prestige Euro buyer culture...

I worked in the automotive retail for 7 years and only once came across an imported Euro (a Merc back in 1994) it came in for a valuation, ...the boss could not find a buyer (wholesale), completely off limits, no one wanted to touch it. I also doubt they are sold in the very large number you suggest and from what I have seen the imports from Honkers are dirt cheap anyway- cheap price to lure a buyer over a local. Personally I would have more faith in trying to off load a grey import r35 GT-R at a reasonable price over a Ferrari, ESPECIALLY a 360 which are available in large numbers as locally delivered cars. If it is something rare, that's completely different (ie. a 365 GTB/4 Daytona) . The blackish/blue Lamborghini Countach that appeared on the Shannons advert a couple of years back was brought over from England. The owner told me that he could not find a Countach for sale in Oz & no-one would part with theirs, so he located the pristine example from London...but if it was a Gallardo and it came from the UK or Honkers it would want to be DIRT CHEAP, hence my assertion that grey import Euro's not only have poor resale they also have poor chance at finding a new owner once landed. If you could buy this 360 for some insanely cheap price in Hong Kong (say $90K) and you want to keep it, then I have no problem with that...but this isn't the situation or the question

I'll ask my brother in law again...but this comment apparently comes DIRECTLY from one of the most well known & experienced Ferrari mechanics in Australia. My initial response & thoughts were the same, that the 360 being newer would make it better, the recommendation however was to go a 355 over a 360 for reasons that it is a less troublesome vehicle. Like I said I'll ask again...

I'll ask my brother in law again...but this comment apparently comes DIRECTLY from one of the most well known & experienced Ferrari mechanics in Australia. My initial response & thoughts were the same, that the 360 being newer would make it better, the recommendation however was to go a 355 over a 360 for reasons that it is a less troublesome vehicle. Like I said I'll ask again...

I'll ask my brother in law again...but this comment apparently comes DIRECTLY from one of the most well known & experienced Ferrari mechanics in Australia. My initial response & thoughts were the same, that the 360 being newer would make it better, the recommendation however was to go a 355 over a 360 for reasons that it is a less troublesome vehicle. Like I said I'll ask again...

Hey Malcom, those older Ferrari's are just magnificent, great job you have there! Thanks for posting those pics (esp 250 GTO, 250 SWB and Lusso) I have mentioned that I am an avid Ferrari F1 fan and have followed their team & road cars for a very long time, however I have to disagree that a 360 Challenge Stradale cannot be compared to the GT-R, it has has to be, they are both supercars. They go about their business VERY differently, but at the end of the day both cars are built to go extremely fast on a track. The GT-R compares with 911 GT2, Corvette and Viper and the quickest cars around the Nurburgring are actually rwd (Radical SR8LM and Gumpert Appollo) so you can't say it's unfair. You also have to compare GT-R with F430 and the new 458 Italia and if they can't cut it with the GT-R on the track or road, there should be no excuses, just the kudos the GT-R deserves. If Ferrari lose the F1 championship next year, I will feel the same way, either they are not good enough or they are, if they are they win that's great and it will be deservedly so, but you can only make up so many excuses.

Very interesting. There is a VERY well known Ferrari mechanic in Melbourne (whom my brother-in-law would take his Mondial 3.2 to) and his thoughts were that the F355 (particularly later versions) were one of the most reliable modern Ferrari's you could buy, definately rated it ahead of the 360 in that respect.

If you are bringing the car back to Oz, then the GT-R should have better resale. Put simply, not many people in Aus want to touch a grey import Ferrari or Porsche (or most top end Euros)...... but there are a few willing to take a plunge on a JDM GT-R. Also that boy racer body kit on the 360 is not something I'd want on my Ferrari, (nor would I want it on my GT-R)...for the future Ferrari purchaser that body kit would be like giving it leprosy.

Birds, a 360 Modena is good for a 0-100 km/h dash in the mid 4 second range, BUT...and it's a big BUT, that is if you are willing to be very abusive to the clutch and can make most of a rear wheel drive launch. ...which most owners are not willing or even capable of doing. A GT-R or 911 Turbo will do low 4's , high 3's all day long without raising a sweat. The other problem with the 360M is the torque, or more accurately , lack of it, you need to rev the engine to stratospheric heights to acheive the 294kw (at 8,500rpm!) and Torque is rated at 373 Nm at 4,750 rpm. A GT-R or 911 Turbo will simply leave it in it's wake esp on the move. Now I agree performance isn't everything and the sheer beauty, noise & passion of the 360 is a BIG drawcard...but you can't get around the fact that its a relatively expensive and fragile car and all that romantic stuff means diddly when you have a sick Ferrari and it's sitting in a work shop for weeks with the engine and gearbox pulled out and you know a big five-figure bill is coming your way! The romance quickly disappears unfortunately! I still think the GT-R is the best blend of look-at-me factor + performance + userfriendly + wallet friendly (for a supercar)

...i wouldn't either, nothing touches GT-R for value for money, as i said there will be an initial buzz with the Ferrari, they are just beautiful cars...but the reality is a 360 is no where near as good as the GT-R 9it's 2 generations old), after the novelty of seeing that prancing horse on the steering wheel wears off you have a car that you can't park anywhere, has questionable reliability, extremely high maintanace, poor ventilation, zero practicality & cannot shake off a HSV or SS in at a set of lights (or an Evo or STi for that matter)..& a weekend driver only. What you have is something that used to be experienced only in $350K+ Porsches and other big dollar supercars. If you can afford a Ferrari AS WELL as the gt-r than good luck & congratulations!

Agree 100% about the F355!, To the credit of the 360 Modena it was very fast for its day (1999-2003), I think to dismiss just as a poser's car is abit unfair......but obviously times have moved on, the modern day equivelant is the F430 and of course that is about to be replaced with the 425kW 458 Italia which im sure you will agree is a pretty serious piece of kit. The R35 the Ugly Betty??? naaaa!. When I was at Nissan HQ on business earlier this year 'New GTR' (the red press car) was out the front, I thought it looked magnificent. I saw a guy and a Nissan rep hanging about...the gentlemen had ordered one and it was being shown to him by the Nissan rep. The guy rolled up in an an E55 AMG and told me he cancelled his Porsche 911 to buy the GT-R,(!) so I reckon even the 'Latte set' (if you like to use that term!) are not impurvious to the GT-R's looks and are not oblivious to the levels of quality and engineering that's gone into it. You would know better than me Martin, but as is evidenced here, many GT-R buyers also seem to own Porsches, Lotus and other European metal. That said from what I see, previous GT-R & Skyline models tend to be owned primarily by Nissan enthusiasts, esp the kitted up versions with the 'HKS' and 'Veilside' stickers down the side, I think the market has widened considerably with the R35.

Saw a 3200Gt with those tail lights a couple of weeks back, magnificent!...you can blame the American market for the more conventional block style lights!

Yes there is the depreciation factor, but the 360 WILL break on you, no ifs, no buts, bills of $10,000, $20,000, $30,000 are not unheard of either. My cousin spent $10,000 per year on his 348 TB over 3 years, he went a BMW 330Ci for 7 years, zero trouble and just bought a Maserati Gran Sport Demo. Amazing value for money, 2006 model, 3,000 kms bought last year for circa $160K. It's a nice car, but to be honest the interior looks very much like an Alfa and I find the styling a bit soft, especially since it doesn't have the 'boomerang tail lights' (which looked fantastic IMO). I think the R35 has much more presence and dare I say style. The new Maserati GT looks absolutely horn...but it's relatively slow and $300K on the road.

If money no object go the Ferrari...however the reality is the R35 GT-R is a much better and much faster car, hell it probably turns more heads too. Engine note goes to Ferrari, but the GT-R sounds the dogs bollocks too once a good mid pipe installed. I have family and friends who have owned Ferrari's and they have all been short term affairs, as they are often too impractical and too fragile to drive much of the time. They look gorgeous and sound great, but the upkeep is prohibitive. Ever wonder why they only do 3,000-5,000km per year? ...and I say all this coming from an Italian background and as an AVID supporter of the Ferrari F1 team, a real 'Tifosi'. I live and breath Ferrari, but the 360 is way out of its depth next to an R35 and from a couple of Ferrari mechanics I know, more troublesome than say an F355. The 360 will be a novelty for a while, but the reality will kick in, the GT-R will be something truly special that you can keep for many years and I believe will have MUCH more significance in supercar history...and as many people point out, the GT-R will be more exclusive too. GT-R for me.

GT2 is absolutely magnificent!, I love it, excellent!....but it's a totally different car to R35. R35 is more like the 911 Turbo, an all-weather, everyday supercar with mod-cons and practicality that you can put in 'D 'and go to the shops in. The GT2 is much more track focused, rear drive only, 2 seats only and dry weather only. Makes a great deal of sense as a 2nd hand purchase too where in a short time $100-150K comes off the $450k RRP when new (same goes for the Turbo). There is no questioning Porsche engineering & quality, just outstanding....but that said the GT-R comes awfully close and for rather alot less... Obviously the ultimate scenario is being able to afford both!