Max_ST-R

Thanks for confirming that Gibbo. Still Gobsmacked, farken Canberra they'll get you even if you grey import. Even worse now that krudd lifted it to 33% from 25%

So LCT is payable on a second hand motor vehicles if they are grey imported? Didn't know that! If you were to buy a second hand GT-R or Porsche, merc etc 2nd hand in Oz, you certainly wouldn't pay the LCT again. What a rort!

Thanks for your feedback GT-Ricer. The GT-R and E55 AMG are definately my two favorite cars, if I recall you had the CL 65 AMG rims too- magnificent! I guess they don't come cheaply? Anyhoo, I was most interested in the seat of the pants feel of both vehicles, the more I read owners views about the GT-R the more I believe it is the world's best sports car. The E55 sounds like the best of its breed too. I was abit disappointed when Merc went to the n/a 6.3. It's great but the 720Nm/1800 rpm, plus the 5.5 S/C noise is too good.

I agree totally, I would never ever argue or disagree with the above comments....

I won't speculate on the resale value of the W427, I would expect it to be much better than other HSV's however if you were to go on past results of other HSV's, you'd have to say the outlook is not great. Even the VT2 HSV GTS 300kW in 2000, made in fairly limited numbers, with an RRP of $94K +ORC did not fare well. Actually the poor resale value of HSV's makes them a particularly good second hand purchase, that said the W427 is a bit more special for the HSV enthusiast. I have read reports of people buying W427's and putting them in storage in the hope it will appreciate in value one day. Looking at mid-80's HDT Brock Commodores, values are solid but not sky high. I 've yet to see a Brock HDT break $100K mark (maybe someone has?). I thought that after PB passed on his cars would skyrocket, but it seems people aren't ready to pay crazy money for them yet. I just wonder IF the W427 becomes a classic, how long it will take for the market to recognize this and start paying big money. It seems the really BIG money is only reserved for a select few of very early 70's GTHO Phase 3's, some Monaros and RT Chargers. It's been a while since a Phase3 has been sold or RT Charger or Monaro GTS. Be interesting to see what people are willing to pay for a Phase3 post credit crunch crises. It's been quite a while since the sale of a classic Aussie muscle car made the headlines.

Excellent modification GT-Ricer, Im really impressed with that and from what you say makes a big difference. Did you install any of the sound deadener yourself? or was it done by the motor trimmer who did the leather seats? Also correct me if I'm wrong, but you have an E55 AMG? If so, how does this compare to the GT-R when you stick the boot into it??

Excellent stuff and magnificent video, looks very effortless!!

Col-GTSX, I wasn't directly comparing a GT-R to the W427!. Of course they are fit for purpose vehicles as you put it. One is a bespoke 2 door AWD supercar, one is a hot 4 door, 5 seater, sports sedan. I don't think anyone is arguing that, and as such each has a different role to play (Fit for their own purpose) My comparisons lay with the W427 less expensive and extremely competent HSV siblings (as well as those offered by FPV). I am a member on other motoring forums and this has been a legitimate and often spoken about topic. I don't see the problem with discussing about these or other alternatives. I don't recall slanging any personal insults at anyone, if I had done so by all means accuse me of wrong doing...

Birds, there will never be agreement here, but I never made specific condescending or derogatory comments to the W427/GT-R owner on this forum. I never said anyone was ignorant, I just put forth my viewpoint of what I would BUY and what I would do, somehow it hit a raw nerve with you. This is what I'm talking about and If i'm not mistaken you fired the first shot in this discussion. Does this sound familiar "My problem with the W427, is the HSV GTS and the FPV F6" A general viewpoint that brought on a personal onslaught from yourself And saying someone would be 'crazy' to buy something is not exactly harsh or strong words. Part of light hearted Aussie colloquialism I would have thought. As for what the Beer Baron said, that's fine, I'm very happy with my car, it's not everyone's choice, but I KNOW I made the right one for myself and my family, I don't need endorsement, regonition or approval from ANYONE, even if they are RICH and own a dozen cars, fortunately I don't suffer such insecurities. As for your Coupe 60, I never mentioned the body shell or removal of B-pillar for a production version!. These are indeed the core ingredients to the car and for about the 5th or 6th time (?) I think a production version would look quite nice, better than the concept in fact which I feel looks over the top due to the additions I mentioned previously. ...anyway I have work to do.....

Should have been changed to LS1 forums by the way some carried on...

I DID OWN A HOLDEN...AND for 11 YEARS!!!!...funny how you brushed this little fact off!, how many years did your own your Holden???...and BTW I've driven every Clubsport since VX in 2001 to 2008 VE so I have some idea what I am talking about here too. Now, lets throw the shoe on the other foot... ..... you don't think that there are HSV owners, fans & diehards out there who don't think the W427 is just way too expensive and could never justify it and it's crazy to pay that much money when the GTS is so good???.........and you reckon I have my head up my arse !! This is a Nissan forum and there were NO shortage of people who thought the R35 GT-R spec- V was/is outrageously priced and many said they would never have one & couldn't justify it- especially when the 'normal' one performs like it does... I didn't see you go off half cocked back then? were were you then? The Spec-V is a limited edition and had enough differentiation to the normal car like the W427 to the GTS, but there were outcries that this car cost so much and it would be crazy to pay the premium for it. Reality is, you YOURSELF have a bias towards GM Holden and it's obvious..and that's actually fine by me, but don't go accusing people of being biased when you do the same! Really EVERY body has bias, preferences, prejudices, that's Human nature, and at least I can admit that....

http://www.desktopcar.net/wallpaper/5543-2...coupe60_122.jpg Birds: - front bumper/spoiler would never, ever be that deep, wide or low - side exhausts- Holden would never mass produce these - car sits incredibly low would never be acceptable for road use - side skirt looks exaggerated (protrude too much) - wheels seem to be pushed out as far as they can go on each end, tyres seem to protrude outside wheel arches at certain points too. No current VE product looks anything like this in this respect, even the W427 looks very tame in this respect. Actually you can use any current HSV as benchmark, the Coupe 60 CONCEPT makes them look under wheeled and skinny - wheel arch flares also look exaggerated, even by VE standards You can disagree all you like but once the side exhaust disappear, ride height is altered, body kit is altered, wheel track is made the same as all other VE product ,19 or 20" wheels are fitted and 22" units are removed, the end result will be a very different looking car. I personally think it looks OTT, I reckon a production version, whilst much more subtle will actually look better, this car looks to me like a characature of a car. And fark CONSENSUS! my opinion is just that, MY OPINION! i don't need the approval of others to justify my position!. I appreciate the performance capability of the W427, but for me it is just a crazily overpriced car and I'd buy something else for that money. If you or anyone else can't accept that I'd rather spend $60K on a Clubsport and save a $100K over a W427 well sorry that's freedom of speech for ya. As I recall i nver had a personal dig at ANYONE, even YOU, when it was obvious you were intent on thrashing this out becuase by not acknowledging the W427, you've somehow misconstrued this as a personal insult!...it's just a car!

I thought the Coupe 60 was a tease when I saw it, I was hoping to see a production ready VE 2 door and was disappointed.

Beer Baron. i have read many of your posts and I see you have owned/own a great selection of cars. I congratulate you on your prosperity and the ability to indulge in your passion of high performance cars. I'll admit I earn an avarerage middle income wage so I am unable to indulge as much in my passions as some, but given a limit of $20,000 and you want a large 4 door sedan with very kms, but you want something a little different, that looks good, is comfy, all the bells and whistles and a great mechanical package your options are limited. You want something with proven reliability and will carry 2 little ones in the back in SAFETY & comfort. I purchased my car with 38,000kms on the clock in 2007, one owner, it has factory body kit, sunroof, 17" alloys, elec seats 6-disc CD player, climate control and drives as smooth as a swiss watch. I considered BA XR6, better dynamics yes, but very plain, very cheap looking and as is being proven recently, various problems ranging from brake hose failures, to rust, to leaking radiators that trash transmissions and LSD's that require rebuild at about 90.000kms. Other choice, VX commodore? na, Camry, na, Mazda6 yes (but the prices!...and it's a 4 cylinder) ditto Accord Euro. The other thing I like about my particular car is that Nissan used considerably better materials than the following J31 Maxima. If I had some money to throw on a cheap fun weekend car, a Ford Escort RS2000 has always been a favoruite and I once owned a KF Laser TX3 which was also pretty fun...doesn't suit my needs anymore. Like I said, I love cars but I'm pragmatic too.

Birds I'll be brief (as possible) - VS Commodore was just ok, I have had plenty of experience with later models too and nothing really impressed esp after few years wear and tear, VE by far the best, a quantam leap over VZ. A the end of the day I have bought & experienced a new GM product which I bought new and owned for 11 years, whether you believe/accept it or not is of no consequence. If my mates R8 Clubsport was a bargain buy at the end of it's lease, yes I'd consider it for sure although a Lexus GS300 or GS430 is at the top of my list for the next purchase. Why should/should I be compelled to buy a GM product? to impress a Holden fan on an internet forum who drives a grey import Skyline!!!! cripes! - Coupe 60 in production form will be a 2 door commodore, quite handsome I'm sure, but none of the curves, radical design or engineering of the GT-R. Even the Coupe 60 has a very square blunt looking front end... - as for aftermarket industry, best way to describe this I guess is that there is a much stronger CULTURE when it comes to adding superchargers or modyfying GM/Ford muscle car product than there is for Mercedes E-Class sedans. - As for Silver and red leather. Silver exterior with red leather looks terrific if it is the CORRECT shade of silver and CORRECT shade of red leather. I think the Walkinshaw silver is a particularly naff shade (with a tinge of green or blue to it perhaps?) and the red leather interior looks like some one was stabbed to death in there rather than a more subtle darker red shade that merc and BMW do. but I'm sure you'll disagree - As for knowledge, much of it is gained by personal experience (you'll disagree), but being in the motor industry I have press releases, write ups and the rest of it shoved in my face everyday- what is wrong with gaining some knowledge from what you read???

he he he ^^^^^^^ No fighting here! Have a quick look, no personal insults from me!, just my opinion. I think the fact I owned a GMH Commodores for 11 years might have taken the wind out of Birds sail tho!

yeah, cheers mate, just drop me a line when you take delivery of your R35.

Gibbo, totally agree bout concept cars raising profile, look at the Holden Effigy, one of the best concepts ever. I still reckon a production version of the VE Coupe would have caused a much greater stir. As for your 'Datsun', yes, kind of like saying you bought a sports car from a tractor manufacturer (Lamborghini)...but lets face it the GT-R is an extroadinary car regardless of who built it. It is a bespoke supercar that is built and engineered to the very highest standards with performance potential way, way about anything in it's price range. The W427 is still a modified Commodore, it is far less bespoke than the GT-R and there is no way it had anywhere near the R & D that the GT-R had, worse still, a near identical looking Clubsport or GTS offers 90%, 95% of the performance potential?. Limited edition, yeah I guess so. If you are talking about the 20 limited edition Lamborghini Reventons with completely outrageous body styling, that has a bit more meaning. The W427 was limited to a production of 427 cars but they capped it off at 200. No suprise there, there are just very few people who can justify the price of that car. As for value being proportionate to scarcity there are a few exceptions to the rule. prime example being the Ferrari F40. Was to be limited to a couple of hundred units, Ferrari ended up building 1100 of them. Ironically it had one of the largest productions outputs in Ferrari history (at the time), but it was such a spectacular car in every respect it retains high values.

LSX, I certainly remember the Holden Coupe concept in 2000 and the Monaro production car unveiling in Sydney. And you know why this car generated enormous interest? becuase it didn't look like some over the top concept car (like the VE Coupe 60), It looked very much a production car and this got people in a frenzy (and rightly so!) Whilst the Coupe 60 makes a good wall poster, I bet you a production car ready VE Coupe would have really made tongues wag, but what would I know? I've only been part of the scene for 15 years.

Hey rehab2010, I'm with you...and lucky you, you missed out copping a spray from 'Birds'.... unlike me!!

Oh ok, strange though, but why did the selling dealer quote a specific selling price to the media? It made news becuase that $950K price tag (supposedly) set a record for a price paid for an Australian made vehicle. I guess $790K may be a record too, maybe there is more to it.

Birds, I don't know why you get so defensive about GMH, or defensive full stop, you seem to be taking this personally!!! (????) but to completely shatter your theory, my FIRST car I bought in 1996 (at 23 years of age) was a BRAND NEW VS Series II Holden Commodore Executive!!. It was Rubens Mica in colour and my wife and i owned it for 11 years. It had window tint, gold plated 'Lion badges' front and rear and it I kept it immaculate. It had 136,000kms when I sold it on December 27, 2007. Considering it was always garaged and serviced every 5,000 kms I thought I had a disproportionate number of quality and reliability issues. Fortunately, parts were cheap and more often than not my dad and I could replace them ourselves. It was finances that stopped me from changing it earlier..plus getting married, building a house and having children takes priority. when I worked at a Toyota dealer for 3 years (after 3 years at a Ford dealer) this REALLY opened my eyes to Japanese levels of quality and reliability and I actually regretted not buying a Mazda or Nissan or Toyota or Subaru at the time. By comparison my A33 Maxima's have been a revelation compare to my Commodore, just chalk and cheese. For example, i have never had a clean garage floor before! refinement and quality are on a different level too. As for your Coupe 60,I think that whole front bumper/spoiler assembly would be HAVE to toned downed considerably. Any car with 22 " wheels which sat that low would drive to it's own detriment if modified as such. I actually think a VE coupe would look quite smart, but I don't think a production version will pack anywhere near the drama of the concept or indeed an R35 GT-R. and I think that's a fair comment. As for modified European, yes, I know there are kits out there, but I reckon you could count on one hand the number of after market supercharged Z4 in Oz. It's nothing compare to the indusrty behind modified Folden/Ford or Jap car scene. Also you might want to go the the Mercedes site and you will see an E63 AMG or previous E55 AMG not only adds a super charger or engne displacement over an E500 but quite a number of equipment differentiation (unlike the W427 to the GTS) As for Motorshow buzz kill I have worked at more than 20 of them about 13 in Melbourne and 9 of them in Sydney, 6 as a sales assistant the rest in my current role. I have attended 18 industry/media days so I guess I have become a bit blase about concept cars and the like. Like I said, when I see a Commodore Coupe production model, I will really take some interest. I was at the unveiling of the W427 and the Coupe 60. I thought the W427 looked horrible in that Walkinshaw silver(with red interior!) and the coupe 60 looked too 'concept', I was actually quite disappointed Holden didn't have a more production ready VE Commodore Coupe.

LSX, the HSV HRT 427 Concept definately sold for $950,000, I have the newspaper article! But if you want to talk concepts, Lamborghini Estoque (awsome 4 door sedan)...but as far as Im concerned all it is is a tease as was the Lamborghini Miura concept. The Estoque does look production ready, the Holden Coupe 60 however sat ridiclously low, with unbelievable huge wheels and bits and pieces sticking out everywhere that you can just see would never make it into production. All I am saying a production version will probably be like the VT Monaro, fairly sleek but no where near as aggressive as the concept. The Nissan R35 concept from 3-4 years back at least looked nearly identical to the road car..but the 2000 concept looked too radical and far fetched and didn't really interest me.

Birds. I actually like my mate's HSV Clubsoprt R8. It's black and I think it is spectacular value for money. He got a $17K discount and I actually convinced my mates wife that my mate should buy that car over a 5-6 year old Merc! so there goes YOUR theory!!. I also told him to look at the FPV F6, another car I really like (even a G6 E Turbo), but he prefers the look of the HSV R8 over the F6, plus he likes the V8. If he had told me he was going to spend $170K on the road for that W427, I would have told him his crazy (and he agrees with me and he has owned 4 HSV's!). Nothing wrong with the W427, contrare Im sure it's great to drive...but so is an R8, so is GTS so is an F6, fanatstic infact. For those who don't know, the W427 doesn't have a higher equipment level over the GTS which is $70,000 difference. Even the supercharged Walkinshaw Clubsport which offers 440 odd KW is a $100,000 proposition. As for the HRT 427 and Coupe, you are saying they are NOT concepts and that the production version will look exactly like you saw on the motor show stand! c'mon! As far as Im concerned until I see a car with plates on it, concepts mean nothing to me. The only company the puts their concepts into production are BMW and that's because the E92 M3 and M5 concepts were'nt really concepts to begin with! If you look up the web, Citroen have this absolutely spectaular looking concept car at the moment(supercar looking thing). It looks great...but it's a concept, it probably wont go into production and if it does it will be tamed down...Im just stating the obvious there, its not an opinion...and I don't understand why people get so worked up over them. As for the millionaires, good luck to them! IF they want to blow $1 million bucks on a 7.0 VT Monaro then so be it...I just wouldn't do it, so is it a crime to state as such!! ..and yes you are right, are car is worth what someone will pay for it and for all the nouveau riche building and mining industry people who earned a fortune during the Howard years and who are now seeing things slow right down.. I just wonder if the ridiculous values of their recently aqcuired muscle cars have held...I bet you they haven't!. At the end of the day I can appreciate a hot Ford or Holden, but every car has a price limit, why is it a crime to be pragmatic?. In my eyes a $60K Clubsport is great value, but a $170K W427 is not...I think you'll find MANY people who share that opinion. As for your suggestion that an E500 buyer should just Supercharge their car to make an E55 AMG, that's just plain ridiculous. In Australia prestige car buyers simply dont do this type of conversion, but aftermarket supercharged Commodores are commonplace and there is quite a big industry behind it.....and NO I actually wouldn't buy a NEW Merc E63 or E55 AMG either! $240K, pfft!...see what you can buy 2-3 years old with some LOW kms and save $100K, that is what I'm about, a 2005 E55 AMG with 350kw/720 NM (at 1,800rpm) with low kms for less than the price of a new E500 or M3 or W427 sounds like heaven. $60K for a new R8 Clubsport sounds like a bargain to me too and I'd have one at that price. Actually see what my mates R8 is worth next year when he changes it...THAT might be worth buying! To conclude I like many a car ...at the RIGHT price!!!!

My main problem with the HSV W427 is the HSV GTS, the HSV Clubsport R8 and the FPV F6. Is it really $80,000 better than all these cars? For example my mate paid $58,400 ON THE ROAD for a new 6.2 l HSV R8 (inc leather!) last year. I know the W427 is on another level, but not THAT much higher up the food chain. If I wanted an insane 4 door sedan I personally would get a new Mercedes C63 AMG or a late model E55 AMG or E63 AMG, just my opinion. That said both cars (GT-R, W427- in red) looks great side by side, but that R8 is too good value to ignore...... As for those lamenting the HSV HRT 427 coupe, the car on display was a CONCEPT CAR just like the COUPE 60, there is NO WAY the production versions of either would have been anywhere near as radical or as brutal as the concepts at the show!!. The HRT 427 concept car was actually sold for $950,000! in 2007 to a QLD'er by the name of 'Chooka'. I don't care what anyone says, it's a bloody 2 door VT Commodore with a hot engine which quite frankly could be put together for 1/10th the price. I'd imagine An off the shelf 7.0l LS7 can be shoehorned into a VT Monaro and the interior stripped out to suit...and for under $100,000, for $950,000 I could have bought a Ferrari F40 LM (race car) which was on sale 3 or 4 years back in Melbourne...and still had change!