Max_ST-R

FYI, My father was also in the motor industry for 37 years (until he retired last year) As a child I spent many a school holiday around car yards & wholesalers. I bought my first car magazine (Motor Manual) at the age of 8 and never looked back since.....

Yes, anecodotal evidence, I'm fine with that...'Birds' however was quite adamant this was not the case and funnily enough directed his argument towards me as if it was I who had suggested it in the first place!. I actually hear all kinds of crazy stuff happening in the motor industry, stuff I know and can't repeat here.... I lactually like the Zr-1 and Z06 too (Z06 sounds great), I wouldn't buy one, (I'd buy the GT-R) but I can appreciate them...very much...but I'm also critical of their shortcomings as well..

The engine was indeed tweaked by Callaway but as far as the buying public and HSV was concerned it was simply the top of the range HSV, the GTS 300, it wasn't an option pack or a special order vehicle at all. I think you are still a little confused. I hate to be padantic about these thing but I guess this is part of my job ............

..COLGTS-X, I actually never made any particular reference to the modified GT-R's straightline mumbo compared to the ZR-1 in that video, no argument there. Both are STUPIDLY FAST. I made comments about how one has advantages over the other for the buyer/driver in a range of conditions and how they are percieved by the buying public and the quality of a Chev vs Nissan.... but not on the particular outcome of the posted video. I was most curious to hear how you claimed the ZR-1's were being sold off for $80K USD...and GTR's at their full retail of $80K USD. I actually said "anything is possible" -if you remember, I did think it was unlikely, BUT I said if this was the case I put forth my theory as to why this would be, based on my experience in the motor industry. Intersted to see that you can get near identical straightline performance out of a GT-R (to the ZR-1)...but modifed cars don't really interest me all that much.

You are kidding me aren't you? The HSV GTS 300kW first appeared in 2000 with the VT2! It had the pretty multispoke wheels. The VX GTS 300 was built in fairly limited numbers, but it was readily available to the public! Hell, I even test drove one at Ferntree Gully Holden in 2001! It had the 19" 5 spoke alloys that were temporarily removed from the market as the Bridgstone tyres did not work very well with them. The 19" wheels were re-introduced with Pirelli PZero's...does that ring a bell? if not this should... http://www.quickhsv.com/vx.html

You are correct Gibbo, the SV5000 was also a VN (not VS) and it also came in a Rose Grey colour.

Birds, if you look back it was actually COL-GTS-X who claimed that ZR-1's were being flogged for $25K under the RRP, I never said that it was! I actually said, there is indeed a $25K USD difference between the RRP of the GT-R and the ZR-1 in the USA after COL-GTS-X claimed they were effectively THE SAME price due to Chev dealers slashing ZR-1 prices. I then said IF this were to be the case, then it's market forces at play. Other than that we seem to agree that the GT-R has a different appeal to the ZR-1. I actually asked COL-GTS-X to forward me some kind of report or evidence that the ZR-1 is being discounted to GT-R levels.. but so far I have not seen anything to suggest this. As for the HRT 427 and W427..have a closer look, the W427 was to have a maximum of 427 built...but production has stopped at 200..why? Becuase it is still a Commode and the market is extremely limited. I know HSV 'sold out' the first production run but it was 40-50 cars!. Sure you'll get a handful of diehards...but that doesn't last, that's the difference between a quality car like the GT-R and a Tuppaware Commodore. Remember the VT2 and VX HSV GTS 300's WERE limited production models and after an early rush of a handful of enthusiast red Lion buyers they died in the arse and HARD!. As for my automotive experience, 15 years and counting...started out in retail but nowadays I deal directly with alot of manufacturers , including Nissan...but that's about all I can say on that subject!

I agree about driver skill being a huge factor amongst amatuer racers, however remember that manufacturer published lap times on tracks like the Nurburgring nordshleife be they from Nissan, Porsche, Dodge or Chevrolet etc are performed by professional racing drivers. Toshio Suzuki is ex-f1, Walter Rohl (Porsche) ex-Rally and Jan Magnussen who performed the 7.43min in the Z06 a few years back is also ex-f1. At this pointy end I believe, skill levels are more closely matched than amongst amatuer drivers, so it stands to reason that the machinery plays a far greater role when you have three drivers who are ex-f1 or ex-Rally, compared to a successful business man vs a lotto winner vs a heart surgeon on a Sunday club race day. For example I doubt that Jensen Button is the best F1 driver on the grid...but becuase the skill levels of f1 drivers are so closely matched, a good car makes ALL the difference, just look his points tally.....

Birds, sorry mate but I have been in the motor industry for 15 years and it doesn't matter whether a car is local or domestic as far as discounting goes. You are right that regardless of make, the market is crap, however, if Nissan dealers can still get full retail for the GT-R and the Chev dealers have to gut $25K off the rrp to shift stock then this shows the market is WILLING to pay top $$ for the GT-R and not so much for the Vette. Golden rule in the car industry " a car is only worth what someone is willing to pay" - write that down You need to remember that has horn as the ZR-1 is (i actually like it alot), it's still a Chevy, with Chevy build quality and the crappy Holden Epica interior. It's also 2 seats and rwd (not always ideal as it snows in many parts of North America during winter) The Nissan GT-R does have the perception of a higher quality car (which it is), more technologically advanced and very accessable high performnce in all conditions...and it's got a back seat and boot...and it probably turns more heads than the more common Corvette. Good market or not. Give you another example, the VX HSV GTS 300kW in 2001. $94K plus on-roads. It's performance exceeded most new cars on the market...but at the end of the day it was still a Holden and I know dealers who were throwing ina free new Barina to try and sell these things not to mention discounts of nearly $20,000. Now 2001 were BOOM economic times...but the market could not see the value of a car that was made and built like a Commode and pay $100K on the road...even if it was the fastest car about.

If what you are saying is true that Zr-1 is being sold for $25K USD under RRP and the GT-R is selling at full retail then it shows the market has determined that the GT-R is a more highly valued vehicle ...but I'd love to see a advertising or report that says new ZR-1 are changing hands for $25K under the list price...sounds a little far fetched to me...but anything is possible.

Birds, you may remember that the R32 GT-R actually spent more time racing Ford Sierra Cosworths rather than Ford Falcons but that's another story.... I still say that the V8 boys (be they Australian or American) are the 'natural' GT-R haters, in the same way they would hate a Porsche. As for the GT-R V-Spec, I'm curious but not that interested to see what it does at the nuburbring but not obsessed. Why? Becuase the 'regular' GT-R is a 4 seat leather clad GT/Sports car at a 'bargain' price. The V-Spec, is another 2 seat quasi race car, with $50K carbon-cermamic brakes and a mega price tag to match. Like the V-Spec Both the Zr-1 and Viper ACR are measurably more expensive than the 'normal' GT-R ,furthermore they are far more limited for day to day applications be it on road or track. All said and done despite massive power/torque and weight advantages the GT-R runs neck and neck with them...as it does with the GT2.

Birds, the muscle car Corvette boys have been screaming blue murder over the GT-R in the states since day one (look at the forums). Piston Heads even rented a C5 or C6 corvette and put a nitrous kit on it, becuase with GREAT FRUSTRATION the presenter just could not believe what the R35 can do what it does, he looks like one of those big 'West Coast Chopper' heros ....and even then the Nitrous Vette was beaten in a 1/4 mile drag race by a std GT-R. The Zr-1 did indeed pip the GT-R at the post at the Nurburgring, very impressive...but 250kg lighter/200 more NM and 120 more KW...and guess what?, a stock GT-R matched the ZR-1's 7.26min time anyway....and it costs as much as a Z06 in the States...believe me, this has caused much angst. As for the Viper ACR, yes "production car" that's done the nurburgring 2-3 scs or so quicker than a regular GT-R?. all this from a no holds barred race car with a set of number plates. I'll ask you would you care to take the Zr-1/ACr Viper to its limits in anything other than perfect track conditions...or any conditions for that matter? with a bit of wind or dust or water on the track only the very brave and very talented will extract anywhere near 100%. As for the GT-R's in 1990-92, were they not to Group A specification? ....as were the Commodores, Sierra's and M3's it competed against? If I recall the R32 GT-R's werehandicapped by weight ballasts and HP restrictions in the later seasons so as to give its competitors a chance? Let me know if I have got anything wrong here...

Hey Col-GTSX ,The Chevrolet Corvette ZR1 Costs USD $104,920 and the Nissan GT-R USD $80,790 or an extra $3K for the Premium version. For what ever reason the GT-R had a $6K price rise in the USA a few months back, so for a while it was around the $75KUSD mark. $24-28K in Australia is not that much but $24,000USD in the states is the price of a new Ford Mustang V6 Premium and only a little shy of a Mustang GT which is $27K USD. Secondly, I don't think anyone doubts the Corvette ZR-1, holds a straight line in -gear acceleration advantage it has a 6.2l SUPERCHARGED V8 and it is 250kg lighter!. When the ZR-1, wins a major event Like a Targa or rally event then we'll see. At the end of the day you can add another 100hp and you will be able to exploit every single hp, in a Zr-1 , anymore power and it will probably become a widow maker, if it isn't already.

Gibbo, at the risk of feeling a little silly here (knowing you own a GT-R), I've had a good look at both GT-R and 911 and from the outside at least what really impressed me was the level of fit, finish and paint quality of the GT-R exterior, it would be hard to pick anything between it and a Porsche. Interior wise there are some console switches on the GT-R which aren't the very best, but I thought it was a reasonably close match internally too. I guess the fabulous display screen in the GT-R gives the dash a bit of an ungainly shape, but I thought the rest was all first class. The difference with the Porsche is the incredible level of customisation and you can really put togther a sensational looking interior....but at a cost....

As a bit of a Porsche-o-phile myself, im actually a little suprised that these GT-R haters are also Porsche fans. I reckon the GT-R and 911 Turbo are kindred spirits, one from Japan one from Germany but both dripping in technology , refinement, awd ability and ballistic speed. Like some on this forum I always imagined R35 owners would also own a Porsche or an AMG Mercedes or a BMW M. I'd have thought the main opposition would come from the V8 muscle car brigade where ya Corvette, Mustang, Dodge lovers would be most threatened, I get this feeling looking at US forums and redneck car shows like Piston Heads. In Australia there is the HSV/FPV crowd. HSV even have a car that costs the SAME as a GT-R, but makes claim as the ultimate track car . Then there was the arse raping Nissan GT-R did to Ford and Holden in the 90's. All strikes me as slightly odd. If I could I definately have a GT-R and a 911 in my garage..but admitedly if it was one car and one car only the GT-R is very hard to go past.

... becuase the R35 is a genuine exotic looking supercar. I always admired the R32-34, fantastic cars, I'd love to have one if I had between $30-50K to spend, but you'd never call them true exotics...but the R35 REALLY looks everybit a $160K exotic supercar ....unlike the black HSV W427 I saw sitting in Nissan Australia headquarters on Tuesday! (my guess is HSV probably borrowed a GT-R to play with and they let Nissan have their $160K 'Clubsport') I remember a reader for Top Gear Australia reader complaining that the annual supercar calender featured a HSV 427 and not a GT-R. TGA replied that the GT-R simply looks like a piece of crap and HSV looks the bizz! After seeing the HSv 427 which looks like an SS without a rear wing and possibly the worst looking tailights ever, it's apparent that TGA has taste well and truly imbedded up their arses. The reaction from the public obviously vinidcates the GT-R as genuinely horn looking piece of car porn.

martz, Mazda's margins are not smaller than Holden. Mazda is the top selling car to private buyers. Take out fleet and Mazda 3 is the number 1 selling car by a fair margin (no.2 as it is). basically your Mazda3's 6's, CX7's, CX9's sell very well, so well that Mazda rarely need to contribute factory incentive to the dealer to shift them. Because of this you'll find Holden dealer giving bigger discounts on Something like an Astra...well ANYTHING at the moment. Honda WERE like Mazda are now..but it seems they have lost some of their shine and dealers negotiate a little harder and the factory offers a little more with dealer and advertised incentives. As for your CX-9, the very best of luck. Last time I spoke with my mate at a melb. Metro Mazda dealer he said they walk out the door. That said I would always aim for free on-roads. if you can get the vehicle for the RRP..on the road you've done well, esp with a Mazda. A Toyota Kluger?..dealer will GUT it! $7-8K off something like a KX-S AWD...but I don't think it's nearly as nice as the CX-9!

Gibbo, you bought a car in runout, with an ABN number at the end of the financial year! That's like all the planets of the solar system aligning at once! Small fleet gets one incentive from GM, runout and market down turn gets another retail incentive from GM, then desparate dealers will 'gut ' the margin out the car to do the deal.....and voila, there is your $6 grand! That dealer made Zilch out of you and may even have sold the car at a small loss if it means meeting targets. Selling cars at cost and even a little below happens ALL THE TIME, esp to businesses clients. See if you get that deal on a new Mazda3!......

feids83, dealers will always quote full retail (why wouldn't they?) but I'd like to know if you bought your XR turbo ute at the same time as your uncle?. As I said there is NO WAY there is $15K dealer margin in cars priced under $100K especially cars priced under $50K. When The BA XR's came out there was NO discounting as there was a waiting list, 12-24 months later it was on for young and old. You'll only get $10K off a car if there is some exceptional situation. Where there are run outs , model year changes and the manufacturer chips in some big bucks to offer crazy deals. Being in the right place at the right time. You and your uncle aslo bought a car chock full of options (alloys for more margin and playing room) With all due respect to your uncle, he either bought the car when it was a new model or they saw him coming. I'm very interested to know if you bought your car at the same time. Was it a BA or BAII?, was it last of BA Mk1? This all makes a difference. I bet you that I can go to one of the 2 GT-R dealers in Victoria (where I live) in 12-15 months and get free on-roads, I know it. It's all timing. I'm not saying don't play hard ball, by all means do so, but don't be under the impression that a $45K car has a dealer margin of $15K even $10K. dealer margins are usually $10-12% including dealer delivery, anymore than that and there is manufacturer help.

I'm reading here that people think there is $15K margin/discount on a top of the range D40 Navara ST-X 4x4 Crew Cab turbo-diesel. Please tell me you people are taking the piss? I've never read such a mistruth in my life! The Navara D40 ST-X dual cab 4x4 turbo-diesel manual has a retail price of $47,860 + ORC (auto is $50,110 +ORC). The dealer would be lucky to have $4,000 margin!. There has been a national retail offer on this vehicle (on 2008 plated vehicles) for $39,990 +ORC to ABN Holders (a $7,870 discount). Nissan would be subsidising dealers to the tune of about $3000-$3500 of this and dealer contributing ALL their margin to do this kind of a deal. I talk from 7 years previous dealer experience and 15 years in the motor industry. A GT-R would probably hold about $16-18K dealer margin, plus whatever they charge for dealer delivery (not sure what prep costs are involved tho). I reckon, buy a GT-R in 12 months time...see if you get charged silly dealer delivery. In Victoria at least, in 12 months I reckon $164K on road would be more than enough for a GT-R standard at a current RRP's.

Handbrake, I DO LIKE the Shadow GT-R...becuase it almost looks like a factory hottie, it's agressive without being over the top.

If I was, I wouldn't be driving an A33 (2003) Maxima ST-R!..I'd have a brand spanking Nissan something or other in my drive-way. I just love the R35, I think it's only the second Japanese supercar that is on par with the Europeans in terms of style, presentation and finish (the other being the Honda NS-X). I have great respect for previous GT-R Skylines, I'd love to have one but in my eyes they lack the X factor of a Porsche 911, or a Jaguar XK-R or Ferrari 360...but the R35 DOES have that X-factor and in my eyes these body kits can turn it into another tacky looking 'ricer'. Don't get me wrong, I respect the quality and functionality of some of these body kits, but some look simply hideous. Another case in point, the 370Z, wow, what a work of art...but that NISMO version is vomit inducing. Being NISMO i respect the quality & engineering...but the car looks like a tacky autosalon special. Same can be said for Porsche 911. To me the GT3 is close to visual perfection, but some of these Gemballa and other German tuner body kits RUIN them completely.

Handbrake, your are probably correct but a car can't be ALL function over form. I reckon the GT-R strikes the right balance of style and function in its standard form. Sure they could probably enhance the aero...but at the risk of looking like a retina searing drift car

Looks very agressive. It is interesting to see these things..but at the end of the day I think it cheapens the car, the GT-R is stunning, it looks like an expensive exotic supercar, body kits (unless factory) are a big no no in my book.

...problem is Sammy-QLD there probably wasn't any extra tax revenue becuase sales of luxury cars plummeted by 20% in just one month (in September 2008). Behind the scenes the retro-enacted legislation was an unmitigated disaster & manufacturers voiced their opinions about this, but fell on deaf ears. Govts should ease thse taxes and encourage people into showrooms, instead Krudd & Co rocks up to question time with a picture of a Rolls Royce Phantom and a 911 screaming at the opposition that these people are getting a 'tax break'. There are probably 15 RR Phantoms sold in a year and a couple of hundred 911's for Gods sake!