When Do I Need A Fueld Cut Defender

[Kennedy]

Hey Guys,

Had my line for about 6-8 months now. Got it from Japan stock as a rock (only cat back kakimoto and coilovers). I've put a pod and heat shield since then.

It hasn't skipped a bit so far after 3 track days and plenty of spirited driving around town so I'm going to begin my power up project within the next couple of months. My aim is around 200-220 KW

Shopping List

Front Mount Intercooler

Hi-Flow Cat

Boost Controller @ 12PSi

Volt Stabiliser

Bosch Fuel Pump

Clutch (Exedy H/D Organic kit)

Apexi SAFC II and tune

I'm hoping this well get me to the mark but please let me know if you think I've missed anything out or have out something that’s not necessary in.

Do I also need a fuel cut defender? or with the SAFC bypass that.....

Thanx in advance for your help.

[d00dz]

3" dump and front?

[Craved]

R33 doesn't have a factory fuel cut, SAFC will by pass the max airflow protection (R&R)

better still = skip the SAFC and go for the power FC, as those mods wont get you the 220rwkw ... you would need a turbo upgrade

[d00dz]

Maybe its an *gasp* auto.

Chris thought so, didnt think the R33 had a fuel cut, didnt wanna say as I might be flamed for having it wrong. Rich and Retarded yes that sounds like it

[Craved]

Clutch (Exedy H/D Organic kit)

that sorta gives it aweay as a manual Victor

[d00dz]

that sorta gives it aweay as a manual Victor

ohhh lolz oops.. its a new clutch auto system :

yea screw the safc and get pfc

[mad082]

a safc won't avoid r&r, ask satanic. a safc can bring it on earlier if your car is running lean. a turbosmart fuel cut defender will get rid of it, but if you then use a safc you will just bring it back. the turbosmart fuelcut defender just moves it by telling the ecu it is getting less air then it is (leans it out). but then if you use a safc to richen it back up you just cancel it out (just depends on if your car is running rich or lean). but you are better off going a full ecu if you are aiming at that sort of power.

Edited July 19, 2006 by mad082

[siddr20]

What does the volt stabliser do??

[Kennedy]

a safc won't avoid r&r, ask satanic. a safc can bring it on earlier if your car is running lean. a turbosmart fuel cut defender will get rid of it, but if you then use a safc you will just bring it back. the turbosmart fuelcut defender just moves it by telling the ecu it is getting less air then it is (leans it out). but then if you use a safc to richen it back up you just cancel it out (just depends on if your car is running rich or lean). but you are better off going a full ecu if you are aiming at that sort of power.

Would love to get a PFC but my budget wont allow for it. I've only got about 2K to burn.

From the above comments i come to this conclusion. Get a SAFC and tune it so it doesn't run as lean as a regular tune for a SAFC? OR Scrap the SAFC and just get a fuel cut defender? OR Don't bother and take the factory ECU to it's limits and spend the cash on a slit dump/front pipe?

Thanks for your help guys...

Sam

[Kennedy]

What does the volt stabliser do??

http://www.gktech.com.au/products/index.asp?ID=78

[mad082]

first thing would be to get the plit dump/front pipe. no matter what other mods you do, this is a must. and if the cat is stock then change that too. then stick it on the dyno and see what it gets, and how rich/lean it is running. if it is running rich then get a safc. this will boost your power, save you fuel, and you won't have any worries with r&r. you could also use a fuel cut defender to lean it out, but it isn't quite as precise. the turbosmart is the only 1 have seen that you can use it to lean out. all the others just clamp the voltage and won't let it read above that voltage.

[Sydneykid]

Shopping List

Front Mount Intercooler

Hi-Flow Cat

Boost Controller @ 12PSi

Volt Stabiliser

Bosch Fuel Pump

Clutch (Exedy H/D Organic kit)

Apexi SAFC II and tune

All for $2K, this will be tricky with a power target of 200 rwkw

FMIC and kit $500, check the Group Buy and Trader section, all of them will support 200 rwkw.

Hi Flow cat, Magic 4” $210 on the Group Buy

Boost controller $22, check out the thread

Volt stabiliser, waste of oxygen

Forget the Bosch fuel pump, your budget won’t allow it. Wire the standard fuel pump back to the battery using a relay. That will up the voltage from around 11.2 volts to 13.8 volts. Plenty enough for 200 rwkw. Cost $20 or so if you DIY.

Clutch $450, if you do the work yourself. If you can’t DIY, then forget it, live with the standard one until it dies.

Power FC $960m, plus tune $300.

500 + 210 + 22 + 20 + 960 + 300 = $2,012

There you go. If you find the injectors won't stretch, they should but just in case, get a Nismo adjustable fuel pressure regulator ($150 from Negun).

Now start saving because the ceramic turbine won’t last at 200 rwkw if you are doing track days. Plus at 200 rwkw you will most likely need an oil cooler. Then there is brakes pads, brake fluid, tyres, suspension etc etc.

cheers

[Kennedy]

All for $2K, this will be tricky with a power target of 200 rwkw

FMIC and kit $500, check the Group Buy and Trader section, all of them will support 200 rwkw.

Hi Flow cat, Magic 4” $210 on the Group Buy

Boost controller $22, check out the thread

Volt stabiliser, waste of oxygen

Forget the Bosch fuel pump, your budget won’t allow it. Wire the standard fuel pump back to the battery using a relay. That will up the voltage from around 11.2 volts to 13.8 volts. Plenty enough for 200 rwkw. Cost $20 or so if you DIY.

Clutch $450, if you do the work yourself. If you can’t DIY, then forget it, live with the standard one until it dies.

Power FC $960m, plus tune $300.

500 + 210 + 22 + 20 + 960 + 300 = $2,012

There you go. If you find the injectors won't stretch, they should but just in case, get a Nismo adjustable fuel pressure regulator ($150 from Negun).

Now start saving because the ceramic turbine won’t last at 200 rwkw if you are doing track days. Plus at 200 rwkw you will most likely need an oil cooler. Then there is brakes pads, brake fluid, tyres, suspension etc etc.

cheers

Thanks for the help SK. Helpfull as always. After reading your post about "Which fuel pump to buy? last night I had also decided to crank up the standard pump to 13.8V. Saves $250.00. WooHoo!!!

Your list above is pretty spot on to what I have figured out late last night after reading the answers to this thread but I am worried about the clutch.....I think it will let go very soon.

Is the SAFC really that useless? I'm still stuck between two things.

Tuned SAFC and new clutch OR Power FC and tune (with standard clutch that could be on its last legs)

Perhaps I should aim for 180 - 190KW....

[d00dz]

Its a money pit :

[mad082]

i know a guy that had a safc then upgraded to a pfc. no top end power increase, but down low it pulled a bit better. but if you kept it in the mid or high revs it went the same.

[Kennedy]

i know a guy that had a safc then upgraded to a pfc. no top end power increase, but down low it pulled a bit better. but if you kept it in the mid or high revs it went the same.

More info please...Standard turbo? What boost was he running? What KW? Did he have any R&R issues? If not...why not?

Cheers,

[mad082]

about 190-195kw (can't remember exactly). about 11-12psi boost. stock turbo, fmic, full exhaust.

[Sydneykid]

The SAFC forces compromises on you when you are tuning. You want to lean out the A/F ratios more but you can’t because the ignition timing gets more advanced and the pre-ignition gets dangerous. Most people choose safety and run it rich.

Some guys try for the highest max power, so they retard the CAS, then lean it out. This gives more top end power where the A/F ratios and ignition timing are at their best. But the retarded ignition timing (via the CAS) kills the mid range where it is too retarded. You can’t advance it with the SAFC because the A/F ratios are already as lean as you want to go.

This retarded ignition timing also kills the throttle response and delays the boost build. The car might make the target power, but it is dull and unresponsive to drive with poor (comparative) average power. This means it gets blown away by cars with lower max power but the higher average.

I can (and have on the Stagea) tune the SAFC for the highest average power, I really don’t care about the max power. Where the power advantage (max or average) lies in the Power FC (compared to the SAFC) is purely a matter of how each one of them (particularly the SAFC) is tuned.

When does the compromise become too much to bear? Tough question, it varies with each car. My rule of thumb is, standard injectors and standard turbo are OK with an SAFC. As soon as you upgrade either one, it’s PFC time (if it’s a manual of course).

cheers

[Kennedy]

When does the compromise become too much to bear? Tough question, it varies with each car. My rule of thumb is, standard injectors and standard turbo are OK with an SAFC. As soon as you upgrade either one, it’s PFC time (if it’s a manual of course).

cheers

My next question being.......

Is a SAFC really worth it for the money. Will there be a majour difference between an "Average Power" tuned SAFC and a Stock ECU? (if I have a slit dump/front, cat and 10-12PSi boost)

Cheers,

[Kennedy]

anyone?