Banning Performance Cars From P Platers = More Deaths

[scathing]

i would love to give u a go on the track and put both our mouths to the test, but frankly i got no time to prove to people like u i can drive, but maybe 1 day i might come next to u at a set of lights an b4 i leave u in a cloud of smoke

Thanks for demonstrating why young drivers shouldn't have high performance cars. I couldn't have said it better myself.

i do visit the track though on many occasions

A lot of words, but not too many times. Try and back your bluster with data. Got Natsoft times for us?

[madbung]

Should P platers be forced to drive performance cars to have mandatory performance experience?.

(rediculous question)

What most people neglect to recall is that cars are meant as a form of private transportation....motorsport and hi-po vehicles came later and initially not at the advent of the motorcar companies.

The large majority of the general populous have little to no interest in motorsports their only concern is that when in transit they are safe....The Hoon image although perpetuated and magnified by the media wasn't created by them..

The generation of morons out there today astound me, they do everything they can to draw attention to themselves and when some of that attention seems negative they cry like idiots that it ain't their fault, they're being racially profiled ect.

Wanna make some noise go to an industrial estate or similar, Turn the doof doof down, put a muffler on it...people pay a premium to live where they do and I'm sure they wouldn't give a crap who u are or what you're doing if they don't have to hear it.

Sadly in society and law you always have to cater to the lowest denominator and thats why the laws are as they are, to cater for that group of idiots every town/suburb seem to have.

But seriously this is......... also great as a dipping sauce for chups and widgis

Edited May 7, 2008 by madbung

[Marco-R34GTT]

Thanks for demonstrating why some young drivers must not have high performance cars. I couldn't have said it better myself.

Just made a quick fix m8..

[BezerkR32]

ever been hit in the head with a piece of pipe?

yehh roll cages...

ive always wondered why there illegal :S :S :S

[BezerkR32]

i agree, as much as i hate to admit it i was one of those P plater idiots, raping my mums camira.

it had absolutely no power, but still was able to do in excess of the speed limit in a built up area.

Unfortunately i think its something we just have to grow out of. i dont know if there is any quick fix or that the car alone has anything to do with it, i honestly feel that stupidity is the problem here. once we get older and have kids these idiots speeding in your streets really piss you off. and you can understand why people got the shits when you used to do it. i do agree that stupidity and a hi-powered car is a lethal combination, so i guess the idea of eliminating one of the denominators is not a bad idea.

The only advise i can give is learn by your mistakes, if you have a close call, take it as a warning. we have all made them at one time or another. some of us were lucky enough to not have killed ourselves or any one else in the process. This forum is the best place for young drivers to get the opportunity to participate in off the street activities. A place where man and machine can be pushed to the limit without someones kids running out in front of you. search the events threads, go out with some friends, have a blast on the track and then drive home like a responcible adult. All is good.

My 2 bobs worth. Happy driving.

My 2cents here...

You wanna drive where I live....

No answer really, difficult subject to put a blanket rule over.

I see many a non-P with driving skills from a playstation, and some bad P's too.

Theres no substitute for experience in reality... that final thought about the added "extras" of the situation, before u make the move.

But the up-shot is if some deaths can be averted, its better than none, then address the others in due process.

When I was 17 in UK, we had restricted Moped/motorcycles, which actually raised the accident rate, because we were biting off a little more than the machine would give, and finding out it was a little dangerous, for example...to try overtaking a car at 27 Mph, with something only allowed to do 30Mph... long time inching past, and many close shaves to boot.!!

Another was reading the road, .........at least we hit the wall at 30, and not 60MPH, thus giving us opportunity to live to tell the tale.

Got to be honest tho, I learned from my mistakes, and luckily never involved anyone else in my disasters.!!

We are all young at some point, and all have the right to learn too. There will be fatalities, but these will be out-weighed by the plus's, thats life.

AND WE ALL think we are king of the road at some point, just one day we wake out of the dream.

[madbung]

The only advise i can give is learn by your mistakes, if you have a close call, take it as a warning. we have all made them at one time or another. some of us were lucky enough to not have killed ourselves or any one else in the process.

My 2 bobs worth. Happy driving.

A fatality is a fairly non-negotiable kind of lesson......I like those touched by the road toll stickers you see nowadays, makes me reflect on my own attitudes every time I see one.

[chris_r31]

if people dont make mistakes than who can teach us right from wronge...

we are only as smart as we wont to be, i no the shit i will be in if i get caught drifting around roundabouts,

but hey i do it in a non built up area an when there is no traffic, is that wrong??

im giving myself personal driver training lesson, in a safe place when no1 else can possibly get injured??

[scathing]

but hey i do it in a non built up area an when there is no traffic, is that wrong??

Erm....

maybe 1 day i might come next to u at a set of lights an b4 i leave u in a cloud of smoke

How can you have no traffic and "leave someone in a cloud of smoke", unless its some random pedestrian who happens to be standing in a non-built up area?

im giving myself personal driver training lesson

If you're giving yourself a lesson, then you'd be the teacher too. If you know it well enough to teach, then why would you need to learn? If you don't know it well enough to teach, then how do you know you're not teaching yourself bad habits or incorrect methodology?

Your evident inability to demonstrate an understanding of logic and causality, once again, demonstrates why you shouldn't be driving a high performance car.

[colossus]

Damn I'm 28 and embaressed to be reading the comments of most of you guys. I completley agree with Scathing. IMO experience is the number one factor making you a decent driver (roadcraft is not about ability to speed from A to B) - not just driving experience but life experience in general. Every 17-22 year old thinks they know everything........you dont know squat. Grow up.

I have never had an accident in 12 years of high performance cars and bikes - its not simply due to any sort of ability but attitude/awareness of conditions plays a major part. Ride a bike in Sydney peak hour traffic daily for over 5 years without putting it down once and you'll get my respect. That is all.

[chris_r31]

[BAMR33]

What relevance has that got to do with anything, I hope you fully sick drift and crash into a family member of yours killing them and mutilating yourself.

[scathing]

What relevance has that got to do with anything

If you have a look at the posts I quoted, you can see Chris_R31's strengths don't involve being able to put two and two together.

I hope you fully sick drift and crash into a family member of yours killing them and mutilating yourself.

That's a bit harsh. His family doesn't deserve to pay for his mistakes. I'll settle for him getting busted and having his car crushed.

If you have a look at the person who started this thread (i.e. me) you'll see that I have no love for the types of cars they're banning P platers. However, after reading some of the stupidity posted both here and on various Aussie car news sites, I'm starting to see why the government is doing it and why the cops come down so hard on them.

Edited May 8, 2008 by scathing

[chris_r31]

2 mins 30 secs and 2mins an 50secs, they state the death toll since 1997 to 2005..

id like to see the death toll for drink driving?

also would like to see stats on wife abuse from males in there late30's thats also a problem in australia?

the average age of males in jail?

this topic is bearly as important or a major factor in the every day lives of australians, they should worry bout other problems than look at us young people spending hard earned money on cars we live for..

yer so some of us like to drive em hard and some of us drive em hard in stupid places, its just educating us young guys the pros an cons of having a highly powered car and knowing how to use them properly in a safe way or environment..

[-R33GTS-]

Chris you need a girlfriend man.

Stop being a keyboard warrior.

whats the go this over generalization based around the P-plate drivers? I'm 18 and drive without an urge to pull 'fully' 'hectic' drifts every time I hit a roundabout.

Chris it seems as though you're the sort that can't be educated - it's pretty obvious what the pros and cons are in relation to owning a highly powered car.

Again - common sense should tell you the safe way of controlling 'any' vehicle is staying to the speed of those large numbers on the side of the road circled in red.

do you honestly need some one to tell you that drifting is not appropriate on roundabouts?

pull your head in.

and think with the one on your neck.

[depalma-bcnr33]

my 2c,

im a p plater and drive a gtr, i think that regardless of whether you have something that goes, or a peice of shit... if u wanna drive like a spastic youll do it anyway.

what i do agree with however (yes agreeing with the government) is that by banning high performance cars, itll keep the people who drive like spastics in something not as fast or as performable. now, thats not a solution on its own as some ppl have already stated the obvious that shit cars were not built for this and therefore pose a danger, in that they become significantly uncontrollable when driven in a 'high performance' manner.

there is no one peice solution to the problem, education is a must, 700hp gtr i coudnt agree with you more in that awareness is a key factor. however, the government is too concerned with placing fines and demerit points. to be honest, out of all my mates, all of these new laws have dettered none of them from buying high performance cars.

i think we need to accept that our ability to reduce this problem is capped. there will always be young people, and always be p platers that want to drive like a spaz, weve all done it. so, to a point these limitations from the government only work so far and the rest is up to us. if something unfortunate happens, so be it (not hoping it happens), but at least the government and community will know efforts were made to reduce this type of behaviour. so yeah, anyone agree?

[-R33GTS-]

we need to accept that our ability to reduce this problem is capped.

you're right.

I think the general missunderstanding here about the whole 'fast car' issue.

What generally leaves teenagers and their mates wrapped around poles (from the vehicle's characteristics) is the power band of the 'high performance' car. yes we all know most road-worthy car's can get to 100km/hr, it's rather the mannor of acceleration between 0 and 100km/hr.

the government is too concerned with placing fines and demerit points

you're right.

it's a joke.

[madbung]

If you have a look at the person who started this thread (i.e. me) you'll see that I have no love for the types of cars they're banning P platers. However, after reading some of the stupidity posted both here and on various Aussie car news sites, I'm starting to see why the government is doing it and why the cops come down so hard on them.

This made the entire thread worthwhile.....welldone Scathing, on a mature and informed attitude towards this subject.

You can't tailor laws to suit each and every individual/situation so they generally start with the lowest denominator and legislate accordingly.

As noted the lowest denominators in this case are incredibly selfish and flawed individuals so basically they've screwed themselves and their peers by their own behaviour.

[-33-]

This made the entire thread worthwhile.....welldone Scathing, on a mature and informed attitude towards this subject.

You can't tailor laws to suit each and every individual/situation so they generally start with the lowest denominator and legislate accordingly.

As noted the lowest denominators in this case are incredibly selfish and flawed individuals so basically they've screwed themselves and their peers by their own behaviour.

Exactly right, most people seem to forget that it is the lowest denominator the law MUST target. That is the compromise which a society always requires. The argument raised 50 times in this thread "but but but some p-platers can drive performance cars well" is irrelevant. Some 12-year olds may be tall enough and smart enough to drive a vehicle; but we accept that it is safer to ban ALL 12-year olds from driving a vehicle, even if this may exclude the capable ones.

And yes: virtually every vehicle can reach 150 km/h. That doesn't make them equal. I can guarantee that planting it round a corner in my gf's suzuki swift will NOT produce the same result as planting it round the corner in my skyline.

On the governments side: the whole hoon issue is a mess.

Will taking away a hoons' car stop him from possibly killing the pedestrian down the road? Yes of course it will, it's a great deterrent.

Will it stop his mate who the police DIDN'T catch killing the pedestrian down the road? Nope.

Dob-in-a-hoon hotline? What a piss-weak response to the problem. So piss-weak in fact, our government couldn't even be bothered setting up a different number from the CrimeStoppers one. Legally speaking, completely ineffectual and useless, especially seeing as it is anonymous.

Overhaul the license system as a first step. I remember I was nearing 18 years old. Had never driven a manual vehicle. Had driven for a total of about 8-10 hours in my mums car on my L's. I took 5 lessons (barely knew how to get the vehicle going) then booked my test. I played some computer game in the VicRoads office (I beleive it was called the Hazard Perception Test). Then I drove down a street or two, did a three point turn, and went back to VicRoads. Then they gave me my license. Hey everybody, I was a "qualified solo driver".

Fact is, without education, and proper driver training, the toll will NOT drop. That's driver ROAD TRAINING. Not TRACK TRAINING. Two different things, two different skills, two different mindsets. Yes, the overlap between the two areas is car control, but car control is not the be-all and end-all of driving on the road.

Until then, the families will grieve just the same, and the government will get the same amount of revenue from fines/impound fees etc. A win for some I guess...

[madbung]

Fact is, without education, and proper driver training, the toll will NOT drop. That's driver ROAD TRAINING. Not TRACK TRAINING. Two different things, two different skills, two different mindsets. Yes, the overlap between the two areas is car control, but car control is not the be-all and end-all of driving on the road.

Agreed they should have compulsary advanced driver training at some stage during the probationary period that must be passed as part of gaining your full licence.. much further down the track.

Sadly there's a few old saying that ring true in this situation "you can't put brains in a statue" and "commonsense doesn't come in cans at the local store". Some people will always be limited by their mental capacity, it's a fact.

But it would be a great idea for borderline cases and the sensible majority out there. The rest I feel will always do what they do till someone gets hurt.

Edited May 9, 2008 by madbung