Electronic Damping Force Controller

[Pax-Ottomanica]

Are they essential?

[dead32]

mate i honestly thought theyre ricey, until my mate got it with his tein super streets, it makes set up so much easier.. p.s his car is a daily and you can save 3 diff settings

personaly i now believe its worth it.

[Pax-Ottomanica]

dead32

Thanks for the tip.. I'm thinking of getting Tein Super Streets my self, from what I hear they are a confortable ride, not as bouncy/rough as other coil overs out in the market and they also come with a decent price tag.

I'll take your word for it and will be ordering this controller along with the coilovers

[R DIRTY 3]

mate i honestly thought theyre ricey, until my mate got it with his tein super streets, it makes set up so much easier.. p.s his car is a daily and you can save 3 diff settings

personaly i now believe its worth it.

Couldnt agree more!!!

[Sydneykid]

Adjustable shocks are only worthwhile if you know what you are doing with the adjustments. Most of the time shocks have adjustment to cover up for their unsophisticated valving. This means they only work in a small range of conditions and so they have to have the adjustment. High quality dampers (Eg: Bilsteins) have very sophisticated valving and consequently have a large window that they operate well in. Simply put, they don't need adjusting.

cheers

[R DIRTY 3]

Adjustable shocks are only worthwhile if you know what you are doing with the adjustments. Most of the time shocks have adjustment to cover up for their unsophisticated valving. This means they only work in a small range of conditions and so they have to have the adjustment. High quality dampers (Eg: Bilsteins) have very sophisticated valving and consequently have a large window that they operate well in. Simply put, they don't need adjusting.

cheers

If a shockabsorber is that "great" and fine tuned, how can they cover such a wide range of work?

Yes i agree that bilstein are a very very good shock absorber. No arguement there. However, i feel maybe you should stop dismissing every other as "unsophisticated" and ultimately crap/useless.

The valve range on the Teins will work with the spring rates. Most kits can go up or down a rate and still be fine for most of the adjustment. E.g, if you went up a spring rate, you would find that the lower adjustment range would not give a great result, and down a rate the higher range of adjustments would not be great. Of course this all depends on other factors to, like bushes, swaybar thickness and settings (if adjustable), tyres (Road, semi-slick, slick). I run Tein Super streets in my car and race in several events (motorkhanas, hill climbs, events with tight twisty stuff where cornering and grip is worth more than brute power). My engine is stock, not big hp. My car is extremely competitive an often leads the class of other skylines and a range of other vehicles with big hp and suspension set ups like bilstein, Koni, or the jap stuff like HKS etc.

Just my thoughts based on my experience.

[scathing]

Not essential, but they are quite useful.

Unfortunately there's no way I can get access to the rear strut tops in my Z33 without drilling holes in the trim and rear strut brace; that's something I'm not prepared to do.

That lack of access meant that I had to get an aftermarket coilover kit that offered an in-cabin adjuster.

Mind you, Bilstein is about to offer an in cabin damper controller for their coilovers so perhaps you could wait, and then get suspension SK approves of that's also adjustable

If I drove a car where I could get access to the strut tops from the boot or by unclipping some trim that I can later re-clip then I wouldn't bother with a controller.

[R DIRTY 3]

Not essential, but they are quite useful.

Mind you, Bilstein is about to offer an in cabin damper controller for their coilovers so perhaps you could wait, and then get suspension SK approves of that's also adjustable

HA HA yes i am sure he will approve of Adjustable suspension when it is available in Bilstein brand that he sells lol

[scathing]

Bilstein's Ride COntrol Cockpit Adjustable Coil-Over Kit

Not sure if they make the system available for any other cars (for example, Tanabe's ultra-funky speed sensitive TEAS is only available for the Sustec Pro SEVEN. And since that was developed in the USA and not Japan, its only available on cars available in the US.

If this thing didn't cost around AUD$1500 more than Tein Flex, I would have gotten it just for the gadgetness that is speed sensitive damper controlling.

Edited February 23, 2007 by scathing

[Al]

Adjustable shocks are only worthwhile if you know what you are doing with the adjustments. Most of the time shocks have adjustment to cover up for their unsophisticated valving. This means they only work in a small range of conditions and so they have to have the adjustment. High quality dampers (Eg: Bilsteins) have very sophisticated valving and consequently have a large window that they operate well in. Simply put, they don't need adjusting.

cheers

How do you explain the Bilstein PSS9? These allow for damper ajustment and are considered to be one of the best in the market (valued at $4000). So are these lacking in sophistication?

[R DIRTY 3]

How do you explain the Bilstein PSS9? These allow for damper ajustment and are considered to be one of the best in the market (valued at $4000). So are these lacking in sophistication?

HA HA HA yeah, they must be!!!

[Sydneykid]

Let's put the quotes in the right context;

1. "Adjustable shocks are only worthwhile if you know what you are doing with the adjustments." How many people know which way to adjust the damping to increase the grip? Most just simply go for the “harder is best” at both ends. You experienced guys know that is most times NOT the case. Increasing the damping may in fact result in LESS grip. If I have an understeering condition do I increase the damping on the front? Or decrease it? What about the rear, increase or decrease? By how much? Without experience, not at all easy questions to answer.

Further complicating matters is the fact that damping adjustment is not a simple light switch operation. There are graduations and the effects of those graduations are on both front and rear and overall balance. So in a simple 12 step shock adjustment, front and rear, you can have 144 different settings. Which one is correct? For that day, on that track?

Painful experience tells me that you can spend many many hours testing damper settings, trying to find the ideal set up. The average guy on SAU isn’t going to have that sort of time or expertise. So they would be much better off with a shock that doesn’t need that sort of fine tuning. Spend the time learning the track and improving their driving skills. There is more likely faster lap times in doing that, than endless fiddling with shock adjustments. When they get a bit more experienced then try a simple 3 step stabiliser bar adjustment.

2. “Most of the time shocks have adjustment to cover up for their unsophisticated valving”. Note the use of the word MOST, that doesn’t mean ALWAYS. There are some shocks whose adjustment is a worthwhile addition. I regularly mention them in my posts, for example Ohlins (the Swedish ones), Sach, Proflex, DMS, Penske, Dynamic and Bilstein. Their cost will mostly likely exceed most of the budgets on SAU, so whilst they are aspirational, the reality is very very few will achieve that level of need.

Regardless of their budget, I still wouldn’t recommend even those brands to inexperienced guys.

3. The Bilstein B16 Ride Control kit is a re-active (self adjusting) kit and I certainly wouldn’t be recommending it for track use. Constantly changing damping characteristics is not something that drivers like, it makes it very difficult to pick the limit consistently. You should be demanding linear response to inputs, not unpredictable inconsistency.

4. I always get examples from guys in relation to their chosen brand of shock’s performance, the “I run XXXX and I beat everybody” claim. The fact is I have not seen one (not one) circuit race car in any class run Japanese shocks successfully. I can give you a tens of examples of cars that I have swapped from Japanese brand shocks to Bilsteins/Konis/Proflex/Ohlins etc that have achieved faster and more consistent lap times.

Most recently I completed the engineering on the S15 Group Buy kit. One of the test cars was previously fitted with Teins, and the driver had considerable track and set up experience with them over a couple of years of running. I replaced that suspension with the Group Buy kit and the car (no other changes, same driver) was 1.25 seconds faster at Wakefield Park. When we changed the Improved Production GTR to Proflex shocks it was 15 seconds faster over 12 laps at Oran Park, that’s the length of the straight. The equivalent in going from 8th place to 2nd place in an evenly contested field.

5. I should also mention that I don’t make any money from selling suspension, my income comes from engineering it. If I find a superior solution, then I will use it. For example in the S15 kit I am using Noltec front strut tops, not Whiteline, because they better suite the rest of the kit. When I was engineering the Skylines suspension Group Buy kits I tested many Japanese brands. They have a wide range, they look nice and shiny, they are readily available at reasonable prices. But I didn’t choose them, why? Because they simply didn’t measure up to my standards. After all I had to put my name to the kits.

In summary, I am simply putting forward my view point, based on my experience. Some people take head, others don’t, and that’s all right by me. My aim, after all, is simply to elevate the awareness on SAU of suspension and the various components and solutions available.

cheers

[leetom]

touche'