Safc Or E-manage?

[mattxwa]

Hi guys,not sure if this is the best forum, but im looking at buying a piggyback ecu to accomodate another 8 psi,as my stock ecu couldnt handle 11psi last time i tried.

I dont know much about them but from what ive seen the apexi safc neo with safc and vafc looks pretty good for $400 but other people say to get Greddy e-manage,dont know much about this,same price.

Obviously the best choice would be power fc but hard to find under 1k.

oh yeh,i drive an r33 gtst s2.

any advice would be great,even if you guys could tell me what shops charge and how long it takes to tune it up.

[pixel8r]

Hi guys,not sure if this is the best forum, but im looking at buying a piggyback ecu to accomodate another 8 psi,as my stock ecu couldnt handle 11psi last time i tried.

I dont know much about them but from what ive seen the apexi safc neo with safc and vafc looks pretty good for $400 but other people say to get Greddy e-manage,dont know much about this,same price.

Obviously the best choice would be power fc but hard to find under 1k.

oh yeh,i drive an r33 gtst s2.

any advice would be great,even if you guys could tell me what shops charge and how long it takes to tune it up.

It depends how far you want to go.

If all you want is to run 11psi or so, get a piggyback (SAFC). Even go 2nd hand cause its way cheaper - you'll get a SAFC2 for around $200-250 i think...worked for me

But if you want to upgrade your turbo etc (no point running more than 11psi on the stock turbo - it wont last long) and are chasing something like 250rwkw or similar, then you'll be way better off with a full ecu.

Ask yourself how far you want to modify the car and how much the extra tuning is worth to you, and go from there...

But for anything up to say, 180rwkw, a piggyback will be better value for money IMO. The extra tuneability of a greddy ultimate may net you a few extra kw and fuel economy, but is hardly worth it for the extra money you spend on it.

Hope that helps...

[mattxwa]

Im not totally sure if i want to go bigger turbo at the moment,but im looking for about 250kw atw.

I have a greddy 3" exhaust (no cat ),split dump, FMIC,apexi pod,and splitfire coilpacks.

Im asking cos last week i boosted it up to 10-11psi with a gfb manual boost controller and was going fine for a few days,but then i nailed it pretty hard for an hour then im not sure what happened d,i might have fiddled with it but a few days later the acceleration went really spongey and even though the turbo was spinning its nuts off there was practically no boost.

I assume this was some kind of retard/rich/lean mode so stocked the boost cont and then reset the ecu it seems to go like normal now but i cant actually remember how its supposed to drive,pretty sure it had minor flat spots beforehand.

How much did it cost to get yours tuned or did you do it yourself?

Edited December 14, 2007 by mattxwa

[pixel8r]

Im not totally sure if i want to go bigger turbo at the moment,but im looking for about 250kw atw.

I have a greddy 3" exhaust (no cat ),split dump, FMIC,apexi pod,and splitfire coilpacks.

if you want to go over 11psi you'll need an aftermarket turbo. no 2 ways about it.

remember that a bigger turbo isn't necessarily better - look for something in the GT28 range...any bigger and you'll get more top end kw but will lose some responsiveness (ie. more lag).

If you're certain you have the funds to make it to 250rwkw, and you're committed to getting it there, then go for the emanage. it'll make your job a lot easier. The only reason to get a safc instead is if your power target and budget isn't high enough to make it worthwhile spending the money on a full ecu.

Im asking cos last week i boosted it up to 10-11psi with a gfb manual boost controller and was going fine for a few days,but then i nailed it pretty hard for an hour then im not sure what happened d,i might have fiddled with it but a few days later the acceleration went really spongey and even though the turbo was spinning its nuts off there was practically no boost.

I assume this was some kind of retard/rich/lean mode so stocked the boost cont and then reset the ecu it seems to go like normal now but i cant actually remember how its supposed to drive,pretty sure it had minor flat spots beforehand.

right on any aftermarket ecu (safc included) can get around this for you.

How much did it cost to get yours tuned or did you do it yourself?

not sure its possible to tune it yourself, unless you have a air/fuel meter, a driver (so you can sit in the passenger seat and fiddle) and a lot of road.

For a safc install and tune you're looking at $250 ish but expect to pay more to tune the emanage due to the greater complexity.

For just a tune for the safc I paid $150.

Good luck

Edited December 14, 2007 by pixel8r

[sloutch]

i would get the e manage over the SAFC as it has more features than the SAFC. More tunability.

[pixel8r]

i would get the e manage over the SAFC as it has more features than the SAFC. More tunability.

even if you only wanted 30kw more than stock? waste of money if you ask me.

For say 50-60kw more than stock its probably worth it but for anything less you're essentially paying money for something you'll never see the full potential of.

If you have an auto, the emanage wont handle it as well as the stock ecu anyway. It will be ok, but just not the same level of ride quality.

[mattxwa]

thanks a lot guys.

I actually didnt mean bigger turbo,i meant something thats stronger and doesnt have shitty blades and bearings like the stock one.

So to get to 250kw+ atw what else needs to go in for everything to run nicely,fuel pump and possibly injectors?

should i get that done at the same time to save retuning the fuel?

Edited December 15, 2007 by mattxwa

[DECIM8]

Ok i've currently got a Safc Neo and concidering the purchace of a Emanage, so far I can see the emanage is better because it has injector timing and ignition timing leads which are optional, from nengun this unit will cost $400 + delivery $100 or so I'd say.. So well worth it. I believe I'll be buying one shortly.

The safc is good, and you can run up to 14psi on a stock turbo without its downfall but 12psi is enough for getting around town. Make sure you regap your plugs to 0.8 when you up the boost because you will hit misfire and the car will feel like its trying to blow up.

If you going to see 250rwkw you will need a bigger turbo, bigger injectors, fuel pump, FMIC, CAI, Aftermarket ECU I.e a Emanage ultimate or Power FC or haltec etc.. And yes get it bolted on and tuned all at once because I losty about $50 a week in fuel compared to a stock car because it ran so rich.

If you going to 250rwkw a step above will need a engine rebuild with forged internals.

So my advice buy a Blue emanage unit, get a new fuel pump, a fmic, boost controller (electronic) If its auto the emanage runs in conjunction with the stock ecu so it will be fine. The emanage is a piggy back as well. Stick under 250rwkw unless you want to spend a great sum of cash on the engine and plan to keep the car awhile. the mods in my sig including an injector upgrade would see excess of 210rwkw on a Neo 34 engine and most likely 200rwkw on the 33 engine.

For example, my sig contains most of my mates mods + injectors and he pulls 191rwkw with no boost mods.

My advice is emanage.

Edited December 15, 2007 by DECIM8

[QWK32]

If you have an auto, the emanage wont handle it as well as the stock ecu anyway. It will be ok, but just not the same level of ride quality.

i don't see your logic. the emanage, whether the Blue or Ultimate, is far better than safc, and still a piggyback ecu. as well as having the option to alter the afm signal as the safc does, you can also adjust timing and injector duty cycle. when you start looking at big changes to your fuel maps the emanage is the better option. safc is only good for light mods (exhaust, FMIC, and a little bit more boost)

mattxwa, if your looking for that power output, with better turbo, injectors, etc dont waste your time and money with a safc. go the Emanage or a remap(if you know a tuner that will do it) the correction values you would need to run on a safc would mess with the stock ecu's timing values too much. emanage and remap wont.

and yes, best to get the ecu installed before or atleast at the same time as turbo and injectors to save doing damage to you engine.

[mattxwa]

decim8,my original post states that i have all of those mods.

also looking to get plenum and possibly high mount manifold $$$.

are you sure i need to rebuild?

i thought about it originally but theres heaps of cars like s14 and skylines running 1.4 bar with stock internals..

[R34GTFOUR]

SAFC = fuel only tuning

E-manage = fuel and timing tuning

i know which one i would get

[Spunky Munky]

Get the e-manage mate, my mate got his and he gained like 40 kw's after a tune - it shows how much reliability and tunability it has. For a stock turbo, I would am more for the 190 kw's range - don't boost it too high or you'll kill your turbo. Proper installation a few dynos and a good tune will set you back at around $450 at most places. Good luck.

[r33cruiser]

ok. cut this...its boring. lets look at the facts and let this thing die...ok.

SAFC-FUEL ONLY, with a possible afm and injector enhancements.

greddy emu- launch control, laptop hookup, timing and fuel, runs a map sensor=no afm's, shows all temps + intake temp. and comes with a base tune for common mods such as fmic, exhaust, fuel pump etc. it also has updatable software so it never goes out of date.

FAR OUTPERFORMS THE PFC......looks to be the new pfc.

for more info see http://www.greddy.com/products/display/?Ca...;SubCategory=47

google is your friend

Edited December 16, 2007 by r33cruiser

[mattxwa]

google ?

one of the reasons i posted here is because i dont fully understand what that all means,and hoped for personal accounts and advice .

Do you think ill need the ultimate or will the standard one suffice?

[QWK32]

google ?

one of the reasons i posted here is because i dont fully understand what that all means,and hoped for personal accounts and advice .

Do you think ill need the ultimate or will the standard one suffice?

Emanage Ultimate would be better than the Emanage Blue but at about twice the cost. if you can afford it the EMU would be the one to go for, with more tunability it would handle some of the higher end mods better than the EMB.

[r33cruiser]

+1 brutha.

if your only aiming for 200-250kw the em blue will do a great job. heaps of people have them. emu wud be the pinacle...but not THAT necessary depending on your target

and they are simple to tune.. so tuners should be easy to find... and saves tuning time=$$$$

[Spunky Munky]

I think it's been settled then - Emanage is more tunable but more expensive - up to you.

[pixel8r]

seems I was wrong about the emanage+auto thing...didnt' realise it could work as a piggyback too.

as for the other points I made, let me put it another way.

for 250rwkw, the emanage is the best (only?) option.

the only reason i suggested the safc is for people who only want a small increase in power over stock, say up to 50kw extra. My reasoning was its not worth paying the amount that the emanage costs - but it really depends on how much you can get either unit for. If you want to do ignition timing as well, it sounds like the emanage blue is cheaper than buying a SAFC and a SITC (or at least in the same price range) so maybe its worth going the emanage anyway in this case.

Can anyone confirm the differences between using the emanage as a standalone or as a piggyback?

For example, if I were to go down that path myself, I would want to keep the stock ecu to control the auto.

What sort of tunability does the emanage do in this case? is it just fuel (afm signal) and ignition timing (similar to SITC)?

Does it still do fuel maps etc and offer more tunability than a SAFC/SITC combo?

I figure there are more people than just me who'd be interested in replacing their SAFC with one of these in the future...and with an auto the PFC is not so simple (although I believe it can be done also).

[QWK32]

Can anyone confirm the differences between using the emanage as a standalone or as a piggyback?

the emanage is a piggy back ecu, it can not be used as a standalone. even the EMU is still a piggyback, that is why it is one of the best options for people with auto's, the std ecu is still used.

What sort of tunability does the emanage do in this case? is it just fuel (afm signal) and ignition timing (similar to SITC)?

Does it still do fuel maps etc and offer more tunability than a SAFC/SITC combo?

aswell as being able to "bend" the afm signal, instead you can adjust your injectors duty cycle, which is what makes it a better fuel tuning option. and the ignition timing adjustment is the other big bonus with the emanage. that is really just skimming the top of the features with the emanage though.

Edited December 16, 2007 by QWK32

[r33cruiser]

i believe there is a thread in the forced induction section dedicated to the emu. it has screen shots and technical data about it...but cant remember where. probably on page 1 or 2.

happy hunting