E Manage For R33?

[mattxwa]

Hey guys i was told pretty much unanimously that an e-manage will be the best piggyback ecu for 33 gtst,

but when i asked about getting it tuned at C-RED(trust/greddy dealers) the guy told me its useless,and you cant lean it out properly,

and was pretty much saying that i should straight out get a POWER FC,even though im not doing that many mods,

and not wanting to spend over twice as much.All i asked for was an air/fuel ratio tune.

Any advice?

edit-also said safc is useless,even though i know heaps of guys running these two ecu's

Edited January 14, 2008 by mattxwa

[vidospace]

It really depends on the mods you are doing and your future plans for the car. Of course any tuner is going to tell you to use the best ecu they tune and the one that is easiest and most profitable for them to tune too. It doesnt mean that you need it, or you have to listen to them! Do the research yourself, and determine what you feel is nessesary. They should be able to tune even an old school dial SAFC to give you better AFRs.

[pixel8r]

Depends on how much power you want. I say go ask another tuner for advice, and maybe a third for good measure.

Some workshops I know are just one-trick-wonders...they only know how to tune one thing and will tell you all sorts of crap to make you think that one thing is better than all the others. A lot of the time when workshops advise against a particular product etc, its just because they dont know how to tune it.

I'm guessing there are plenty of r33's running an e-manage and not running too rich or too lean.

SAFC's and SITC's also work well but only within a certain range. If you only want an extra 50kw than stock then this will work well, but if you want more, then go with a more capable ecu.

There isn't that much difference between 33's and 34's as far as tuning goes, so if someone tells you the e-manage wont work on either of them, there are plenty of skylines on this forum that are proof that it can be done.

anyone out there with an e-manage?

[crofte]

Question about piggy back's in auto's

With E manage and SAFC type piggy back ecu's and your stock ecu still having the boost/air flow cut out limits, speed limit etc etc. Is it possible that any of these piggy back ecu's SAFC or E manage ultimate can overide the factory cut out limits programed to stock ecu.

I need a good ECU for my auto R33 GTST with Gt 2530 turbo and i have had my transmission decked out with bigger shifters.

What can i do about the shit factory tune?

[pixel8r]

Question about piggy back's in auto's

With E manage and SAFC type piggy back ecu's and your stock ecu still having the boost/air flow cut out limits, speed limit etc etc. Is it possible that any of these piggy back ecu's SAFC or E manage ultimate can overide the factory cut out limits programed to stock ecu.

I need a good ECU for my auto R33 GTST with Gt 2530 turbo and i have had my transmission decked out with bigger shifters.

What can i do about the shit factory tune?

It depends what you call "overriding" the cut out limits...

They wont bypass the 180km/h speed limiter, and one would question why you would want to..?

As far as fuel cut (R&R, but lets call it fuel cut here since thats what it does), the way the piggybacks work is by modifying the signal (voltage) from the AFM to the ECU. The ECU cuts fuel based on the amount of airflow. And it only knows about the stock AFM, so lets assume the max voltage is 5V for the stock AFM (not sure what it is actually). When the voltage returned reaches 5V, the ECU knows the AFM is near its limits (or near the limit set by nissan) and will cut fuel to protect your engine from detonation - because it thinks it wont be able to supply enough fuel to match...

A very simplistic description of how piggybacks work is that they can reduce the signal that the AFM sends to the ECU, so the ECU sees less airflow, and provides less fuel. This means you can go closer to the physical limits of the AFM and yet the ECU will still think its within range and therefore no fuel cut.

Eventually it will start to run too lean, so here's where you need a better fuel pump and increase the fuel pressure via fuel pressure regulators or bigger injectors etc. This would allow you to reduce the AFM voltage signal further, and still supply the same amount of fuel - if that makes sense.

Sorry if this sounded confusing...but thats the simple description of the basics of tuning. Just balancing the Air/Fuel ratios by turning down the AFM signal and turning up the fuel pressure to match. There are other side-effects to handle as well, since with the SAFC, reducing the AFM signal also advances the timing a little, so there are other things to think about. The SITC piggyback can help with this too, and the SAFC/SITC combo can work well, but these have limits as well, since they will only "bend" the signals so far.

The E-Manage on the other hand will do all of this and more, including actual fuel maps, rather than just a simplistic AFM modifier for different RPM points.

Plus it does ignition timing, and drives the injectors as well...

I dont have any hands-on knowledge of the E-manage however so I really cant comment further on that...but suffice to say that they are probably the best value for money piggyback provided you have a tuner who knows how to install/tune them - and this is very important.

so to answer the question, YES they can AVOID fuel-cut completely.

Dont be fooled by the "fuel cut defender" either. It has less functionality than the SAFC and once the AFM voltage reaches the limit you set with it, the car will just run leaner and leaner as the airflow increases after that - not exactly safe for the engine. Dont waste your money on this, either get a cheap SAFC or spend a little bit more and go the E-manage. Just my 2c

[crofte]

Thanks for your help mate. I have had the SAFC installed for 6 months now. DIY job. I have no idea how to tune it, neither did the guy who i took it to. The mechanic was having a conversation with the boss and i could tell it was regarding " how the hell do i do this one boss" and the response was install a Haltec mate these are crap. I showed him the instructions on tuning the SAFC and he pressed a fue buttons and chucked it back in the glove box.

[pixel8r]

Thanks for your help mate. I have had the SAFC installed for 6 months now. DIY job. I have no idea how to tune it, neither did the guy who i took it to. The mechanic was having a conversation with the boss and i could tell it was regarding " how the hell do i do this one boss" and the response was install a Haltec mate these are crap. I showed him the instructions on tuning the SAFC and he pressed a fue buttons and chucked it back in the glove box.

personally if my tuner couldn't work out how to tune with a SAFC I'd go somewhere else and NEVER go back there.

They have to be the simplest ECU to tune. All they do is airflow, and they modify the airflow signal at set rpm points. i believe you can preset these rpm points first and then go through and set the level of adjustment for each point. mine start with 0 for all the way up to ~3000rpm and then at 3000rpm its like -2 or so and then all the way up to about -20 at 5000rpm. All that means is its reading less air so will supply less fuel.

Looking at the Air/Fuel ratio graph from a dyno printout - any point on the graph that you want to lean out, just put a -ve number in the SAFC at that rpm. The larger the number, the more lean it will run. If you want to richen it up, then just add a bit to that bar at that rpm on the SAFC. Keep doing this using the dyno readout until you eventually end up with the graph being pretty straight on 12:1 (or 11.5:1 for a bit safer tune) at the top end. Normally it starts lean (normal for lower revs) and gets richer and richer at the top end, so you just need to lean it out a little at the top end to get a straight line instead...

But yeah, I'm no mechanic and I've worked it out so just a word of caution before taking it to a supposed "tuner" who cant figure it out...

EDIT: I should add that SAFC's are not a fantastic tuning tool, but they do work and can work well if you only want 30-40 extra kw or so...

Edited January 17, 2008 by pixel8r