Rb30de

[---Steve---]

First up jus sayin hi, ive been a long time reader of SAU and coz i own a S13 I'm mostly on NS but coz of this post i thought i better enlist the help of the ppl that know the RB Best

(Modded Post from NS)

Jus after some help atm, Ive currently got a s13 with a SR20DE and because Im on the new QLD P-Plate laws I cant have a turbo /cry.. Anyways Ive been thinking y don't I go RB30DE, now i know that it would be a big piss around having to get a rb30 bottom end then get a rb25/26 head and work out all the other things aswell but if done rite would it be half decent in a s13 ? and as im looking at getting drift lessons/start practice days later the year it would be nice to have more then a pretty stock standard sr20de (before i start i will have all the handling things sorted out so jus need power..), so yeah jus looking for some info on the following things:

1: Most important thing i guess is the legality's: I assume if i get ALL the work done at a decent shop with mod plates and all, QLD Transport should be ok with that coz im under the impression that u can only do "big" mods if they are engineered and (possibly checked overy by Transport to make sure they r ok ?), because afterall y bother to go to all this trouble to make a NA that i can drive if i will jus get fisted anyways.

2: Costs / Whats needed: Done a bit of browsing on SAU and some other sites about the RB30DE build and so far most ppl say that u can pick up a rb30 for under 1k easy and then spend maybee upto 1-2k for a half decent rb25/26 head. So say bout 3k max for the bare engine ?. Now obviously coz im gonna be putting this into a S13 I will need gearbox + other tranny stuff and im not sure if I would use a rb25 box or watever ? and other running gear to get it working so say maybee another 2k for that ?. So far that is about 5k (Am I overestimating/underestimating ?) then to find a place to take my old sr out and put in the rb and get it all running would prob cost me a bit aswell. By rough estimates it would prob cost between 5-7 k to get it sorted ?

3: Would it work: From looking on NS and SAU and quick google i havent really found anthing about a RB30DE into a s13 and i dont think its a very common build. Ive never even herd of a rb30de sil before.. so if there is anyone out there that has done it, wat is it like and was it worth it ?.

4: Figures: From info off SAU most ppl that have done this that normally use a skyline or cefiro and figures ranged from wat mods they had but generally ppl were sayin anywhere between 120-170rwkw's depending on mods, wat do u think ?.

Lastly I know that most ppl will say im a loser for even considering this because i will be off my p's in 3 years and be able to drive a turbo then but i havnt got this set in stone or anythign yet im jus looking for info atm and wondering if it would be a benificial and viable build. Will prob add most questions as they come to me lol.

*EDIT* - Also forgot to add how much power difference do u think i would notice if i did it rite would there be from the my current SR20DE ? (sr is out of a s14 so spose i could get the vct running to make it better then normal sr20de if i got s14 ecu but i would be getting vct if i got a 25/26 head on the rb anyways..)

[GTS4WD]

Hey mate and welcome

There have been alot of us here in the NA section that have been pondering this build.. I too have been trying to twist my arm into doing this for almost a solid year now.

1. In terms of legality, im in NSW so i can't help you much there. But one thing I will say. If NSW prices are anything to go by, you will get your pants pulled down over the price by getting the work done at a workshop + mod plates. It wouldnt be that expensive to do it yourself but you need the tools, space, skill and time.

2. A quick rundown (If you shop around and buy parts yourself - not through a workshop, that would be almost double)

Rb30 block - $300-$500

Rb25 head - $600+

Rb26 head - 2K+ (Rb26 heads have larger ports from stock, so the potential to go for more power is there. There is alot more work in getting 26 heads to mate to the ye olde dirty thirty block)

Gates Timing Belt - $150

New rings - ~$100

New Bearings - ~$100

Balance - ~$100

New rod bolts - ~$100

Head Gasket - ???

Water pump collar - ??

Water pump may be needed.

This is just bare minimum for engine. Considering 30's have done well over 150,000 km by now, you will want to frenshen up the bottom end. No point in building an engine to find out you have a clapped out ring or busted bearing.

From here is when it gets tricky:

Fuel pump - I am assuming that the stocko S13 wouldn't cope - $150 odd - GTR pump?

ECU - Stock one + SAFC + tune - $300 odd.

Z32 ecu can be used with a NVCS/VCT head as Z32's have both a 3L and VCT head. Apparently (not 100% on this) they can be re-mapped too.

Engine mounts

RB's in S's are quite popular so you may not have too much trouble getting your hands ahold of them, but its something you need to keep in mind.

Air con? Power steering? You may need to buy these with the 30 block. Or perhaps the S14 ones mate?

Tranny-

I know S15 and Rb25DET boxes are interchangable. I know all RB engines and boxes all mate. So with that knowledge Im going to make an educated guess and say that an RB30 box will mate to an S13 box.

..soo.. I dont think your going to be pushing out enough power to be having problems with stripping gears and busting up gearboxes. So an RB25DET ($1500 odd) may not have to be bought so you could save money there. If it is essential.. Rb20 boxes are good for 220 odd kw and are half the price. OR. GTS4 boxes are just as strong as GTR's and are half the price - you just need to get rid of the transferbox.

Bear in mind you need to factor in the cost of labour.

Figures.

Well to get big figures you need;

Injectors - Rb25DET items will do

Cams - $600 (look into getting stock ones re-grinded)

Cam gears - $300 odd

Port and Polish

ECU of some sorts (SAFC? Comeplete stand alone? etc.) + tune

Throttle Body - A couple of the boys use a commo (I think.. im sure one of them will shed light on this)

Shave the head/deck the block

I am sure I missed one or two things

And man.. dont worrie.. just cos your off your P's doesn't mean you HAVE to drive a turbo. Na's are awesome.. they are the under dog!

High compression NA's pull out massive mounts of torque.. and well.. that is what you need in drifting yeah!?

Its a huge rant.. I hope it makes sence..

But just one question.. Why not throw all this money on the SR? You could get Individual throttle bodies AND all the crap you would be buying for a 25/30 build. SR's are all alloy block arn't they? which means you have 2 less cylinders.. AND a lighter block. So by ripping out the SR your throwing on alot more weight.

A bit left field.. but have you ever thought about a 13B?

thts my 2cents.. hope it helps

[---Steve---]

Thanx heaps GTS4WD for the fast and very in-depth reply, this is exactly the kinda info im after . Yeah I was thinking about doing up the SR but ive herd as NA that there isnt really much u can do to em (as in u put in a lot of money but get barely any results) so i was nearing towards getting a bigger engine and i cant go past the RB (best 6cylinder engine ever invented imo), yeah from wat u say about the 26 head it would cost me a lot more and i presume coz of the larger ports the rb30 bottom would require some ajusting to fit it so there would be more money in labour if i go that way aswell.. so maybee rb25 head would be the way to go. Ive been thinkin bout it and as much as a i want a turbo I can still get a fast car on my p's if i did this setup and i would keep this car for a few years to come because it would be very rare and prob work really well (if its done rite..), something about high comp and loud engines that gets me aswell haha:P. I guess first things first tho ill call QLD Transport tomo and try and find out exactly wat the go is with engine swaps and stuff with someone on the new P-Plate laws.. gonna be pissed if i cant do it haha, will update after i find out. Thanks again

Edited August 4, 2008 by ---Steve---

[R TUNE]

hey mate and when your off your p's you can put some low comp pistons in and go turbo for a cheep price then youll have a real drifter. you may wont to look at some forged conrods as im starting to hear that RB30E rod dont like rpms above 6500, that said chris easton (drift pirate) has 245rwkw (i think) with a stock RB30E bottom end.

[drive2slide]

hey mate and when your off your p's you can put some low comp pistons in and go turbo for a cheep price then youll have a real drifter. you may wont to look at some forged conrods as im starting to hear that RB30E rod dont like rpms above 6500, that said chris easton (drift pirate) has 245rwkw (i think) with a stock RB30E bottom end.

Do it for sure man, would be f**king insane in an S13. But yeah as it's been said, RB series engines have cast iron blocks as opposed to the alloy blocks on S13s, so you'd be throwing a lot more weight in. That being said, you'd be throwing in a lot more power too Would be a VERY fun car.

When you get off your Ps you can just strap a turbo to the side of the engine too - high compression turbo engines for the win! I have an RB25DE in my R31 Skyline at the moment and it's getting turboed in about 2 months. High compression RB series engines take boost with a smile on their face. There are several members in the R31 Skyline Club that are running RB30E+Ts (RB30s with a turbo just strapped to it, still high compression) and blowing 14psi through them without a problem in the world. A person I know is also running a high flowed VL turbo on an RB25DE and running 10psi and he is seeing 200rwkws.

The response of an NA engine with the power of a turbo - what more could you need!