Jump to content
SAU Community

Dr30/ S13 Front End Couple Of Qs About Tie Rod Ends

ydr030
 Share

Recommended Posts

ydr030 Mentor

ydr030

Posted
Posted

ok so had the s13 front coilover/hub set up 4 a while now but keeps choppin out tierod ends,

has ne 1 done ne thing that rectifys the angle the end goes into the hub ?

thinkin

1) get an adjuster made up that is say 20mm longer, will give more thread but dont no if this will bring the tie rod bak to the right position?

2) get nigel to modify the hubs, which will give more lock and reduce bump steer

3) go back to origanal

4) deal with it

ne thoughts?

RiCkY TuTtY Collaborator

RiCkY TuTtY

Posted
Posted
ok so had the s13 front coilover/hub set up 4 a while now but keeps choppin out tierod ends,

has ne 1 done ne thing that rectifys the angle the end goes into the hub ?

thinkin

1) get an adjuster made up that is say 20mm longer, will give more thread but dont no if this will bring the tie rod bak to the right position?

2) get nigel to modify the hubs, which will give more lock and reduce bump steer

3) go back to origanal

4) deal with it

ne thoughts?

wat is ur steering setup? still box or r31 rack n pinion?

RiCkY TuTtY Collaborator

RiCkY TuTtY

Posted
Posted (edited)
steering box

it MAY be worthwhile going to rack setup.... that will help as i plan to do this myself when i get coilovers sometime, going to pick up a R31 x-member, rack, pump n lines etc, and which ever else is needed

please anyone correct me if im wrong if this won't help but to my thoughts to where the arms sit via box setup they sit further towards the rear therefore the tie rod end angling, but by replacing with the rack n pinion setup thus bringing further forward the rods?

Edited by RiCkY TuTtY
RiCkY TuTtY Collaborator

RiCkY TuTtY

Posted
Posted (edited)
yea if id did that id go laurel/32 crossmember etc..

i cannot remember whilst i was doing my research but if u do this which rack will u use?from what i remember the reason why i say this especially with s13 racks (not sure if r32/luarels are the same) the pinion is off-centered differently to an r31 therefore more difficult to position (maybe modifying/involving swapping more parts involved)

my mates hr31 has same setup and same problems, not sure if 31 is wider 2 ..

hmmm that does make u go ???..... pineapples maybe?

im not sure havent came across anyone complaining of this problem b4 whilst researching....

Edited by RiCkY TuTtY
Ghostrider Grand Master

Ghostrider

Posted
Posted

Here we go again!

This topic has been done to death.

Don't read forums, go talk to engineers and they will tell you the pros & cons of rack n pinion vs the stock steering box and I can tell you this, the answers your going to get aren't what you want to hear.

If your going to the drags, running in a straight line all or most of the time, do the rack n pinion conversion, but if you plan to go around corners, the geometry is going to be all wrong and your going to be chasing your tail getting it right till the sun don't shine no more.

Your playing with a short fused stick of jelly imho and with others that have researched it for longer than most of you have been alive.

Have a talk to the likes of Arthur Jackson & Stewart Wilkins and others like them and they will all tell you your going to get burnt.

If it was so easy, they would be doing it everyday, but they aren't.

D

RiCkY TuTtY Collaborator

RiCkY TuTtY

Posted
Posted
Here we go again!

This topic has been done to death.

Don't read forums, go talk to engineers and they will tell you the pros & cons of rack n pinion vs the stock steering box and I can tell you this, the answers your going to get aren't what you want to hear.

If your going to the drags, running in a straight line all or most of the time, do the rack n pinion conversion, but if you plan to go around corners, the geometry is going to be all wrong and your going to be chasing your tail getting it right till the sun don't shine no more.

Your playing with a short fused stick of jelly imho and with others that have researched it for longer than most of you have been alive.

Have a talk to the likes of Arthur Jackson & Stewart Wilkins and others like them and they will all tell you your going to get burnt.

If it was so easy, they would be doing it everyday, but they aren't.

D

fair enough point taken.... so to ur knowledge swapping the box in the r30 for rack and pinion is a no go (hypothetically - drifting)?

Ghostrider Grand Master

Ghostrider

Posted
Posted
fair enough point taken.... so to ur knowledge swapping the box in the r30 for rack and pinion is a no go (hypothetically - drifting)?

If you research this exact subject or maybe rack n pinion conversion in R30, I think you will find any number of threads.

It is my understanding, the geometry of the front end, ends up so out of whack it aint funny and trying to fix it right is expensive and a long term trial & error sequence of events.

I have spoken to both the people I mentioned, over many hours and they don't bother, as they believe there is an easier and more practical solution.

I really don't understand the big issue of having to have coil overs in a road car. It can't be as simple as the 4" brake caliper mount used in S13 towers, because VT Commodore use the 3.5" mount and that conversion is cheap as chips. The variable ride hieght availability in a road car is vastly over rated, so I would think, playing with spring hieghts would be simpler and probably cheaper.

I had a set of JIC's in my PNV, but they are now in the DR track car and standard struts, King Springs & Koni Sport inserts are back in the front, with a 23mm R31 Pintara front sway bar.

From what I'm told, there is more to it than what it looks like on the surface and it's those variables that make it an enormous challenge. And today, if it's planned to be at any time registered, the engineers have to pass the modification.

ydr030 Mentor

ydr030

Posted
  • Author
Posted

sweet link,

im still tryin to figure out it out, but goin by that if u had a longer adjuster then it should bring ther end back to the right position? or would it just allow 4 more thread ? im confused

d yea there no way i can be botherd doin the rack thing, steering box is fine just tryn to worm out bumpsteer and this tierod end gremlins

Ghostrider Grand Master

Ghostrider

Posted
Posted

Have you got any play in your steering linkages that might be causing the problem?

Also, the problem might be emphasized with the movement of the steering box because you're trying to mix 2 systems that were never designed to be that way.

I haven't entertained the possibility, other than look into a 280ZX set up, but my thoughts go to the movement the steering box system tolerates. The R n P system has virtually zero play as the rack is firmly mounted to the crossmember or firewall, where as the steering box system has some tolerated play from the flexing steering box to the linkages to the strut.

Ozdat do a steering box brace for Datto 1600, but don't do anything for the D/H/MR30. It's something I have been working on for a few months now, but as yet haven't produced a prototype for testing, as the Skynats have taken preferrence over everything else.

A brace of this nature would go a long way to eliminating the movement issue.

Cheers, D

R34 Mentor

R34

Posted
Posted (edited)

I just picked up my DR30 from the suspension shop and it feels great.

They fitted some lower springs and wheel aligned the car after the Kings lowered ones they supplied made my car sit higher.

Seems they fitted some BMW front springs and 240Z rears

I couldn't believe the difference as my car has the std setup but with new Koni's and all bushes/ball joints replaced.

Felt the difference immediately so there is no way I'd go RnP now

Car sits nice but not too low and has about neg 0.5 degree camber all around

Entering a super khana next month so we'll see how she handles

Edited by R34
Ghostrider Grand Master

Ghostrider

Posted
Posted

I have just gone through a similar exercise on my PNV.

I have King low KDFL-14 in the front & 240Z standard KDRS-09 in the rear.

It's still on stands so I don't know how it's going to sit on the road yet.

D

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
 Share
Go to topic listing


  • Similar Content

  • Latest Posts

    • MBS206
      R34 25GT Engine Light 21

      By MBS206 · Posted

      Take the value it measured as, and pick the closest range available that is above the reading on the screen.   Also, no point just testing the coils. Read what has been said again. You need to test all your wiring, everything.
    • GTSBoy
      R34 Handbrake light saying ON and intermittently flashing

      By GTSBoy · Posted

      Does the scanner do all the CUs in the car, or only the ECU?
    • albyz34gt
      R34 N/a And R34 Turbo (gtt) Transmission.. Uh, Problem.

      By albyz34gt · Posted

      @666DAN sorry to bring you and old thread.     I've got my de+t done and it's all running great other than 1 small issue.    Car has remained auto with the na auto and tcm, I've used a stagea ecu with. NIstune board and everything is great other than my gear selection on the dash. It illuminates park, reverse, neutral, 3rd and 2nd when selected . But nothing when in  drive or what gear your in when you pop it into tiptronic. I'm sure there is maybe 1 wire in the ecu plug I need to move to rectify this. Do ya have any ideas?     Cheers man
    • RB25inside
      R34 Handbrake light saying ON and intermittently flashing

      By RB25inside · Posted

      Well I recently changed my rear axles and was thinking if I bumped anything, I have been driving the car for a while now though... But it has been raining today so everything is wet under the wheel arches. Brakes feel fine and can't hear any of the metal screamers, I had a squeak coming from one of the handbrake drums but that seems to have gone away a while ago. I was going down a hill when it lit up and I did feel the abs bite for a second and question why it did it?
    • GTSBoy
      ECU sees many times the speed than speedo does (R34 swap)

      By GTSBoy · Posted

      Correct. Um. I dunno. I haven't cared enough about the way that the NA cars work to know for sure. But..... The 33/34 turbo manual cars have an electronic speed sensor in the gearbox that outputs a +/- (ie, sawtooth AC) voltage signal. That is connected to the speedo. The speedo then outputs a 0-5v square wave (ie, PWM) signal that the ECU (and any other CU on the bus) sees. The speed sensor is NOT directly connected to the ECU. So here's the problem. Your new ECU expects to see the PWM signal, but must somehow be getting a direct signal from the diff speed sensor. Which would suggest that the wiring of the NA car is not the same as the turbo cars. I think you will need to spend some time with (hopefully the wiring diagram for the car) and a multimeter to see what is connected to what. Then, presuming I am correct**, you would then want to separate the ECU speed signal input from the rest of the car's wiring, and probably either buy a speed signal converter, or build one using an arduino (or similar). That would take in the speed sensor signal and output a scaled (and suitably rearranged) signal for the ECU. ** We shouldn't presume that I am correct here, because there might be something else crazy going on. I don't think you could convert the speedo to be fed from the gearbox sensor, because the pulse rate from that sensor is probably different to the diff sensor and then the speedo would read wrongly. And this also wouldn't fix the ECU's problem either, because the ECU doesn't want to see the gearbox signal direct either (assuming that they are all on the same wiring, for some odd NA related reason, see above caveat!) Does this help? Probably not. Can you make it work? Almost certainly. With the above work. You should buy a handheld oscilloscope from Aliexpress so that you can view these signals directly. Connect up the probes and drive the car. Show photos of the screen when drving at known speeds and connected to different places, and we'll see what we can learn about it.
×
×
  • Create New...