New Clutch - Rattle And Vibration - Video Inside.

[No Crust Racing]

Recently replaced the clutch in my Silvia. Also machine flywheel, new throw out bearing, new pivot ball, new spiggot bush, rebuilt the slave and master and removed the damper. Clutch is Xtreme HD Organic.

Two things I noticed.

1) There appears to be a fair bit of vibration coming through the clutch pedal, (keep in mind I've removed the damper) so I assume the box is vibrating and it's vibrating up the hardline to the master which I can feel through the pedal? I've adjusted the clutch pedal so there's also the chance that the TO bearing is making light contact with the pressure plate if I've adjusted it too much?

2) There appears to be some sort of rattle/vibration in the higher revs, sometimes 3-4k onwards sometimes not at all. I'm not sure if it's something else in the car and is a coincidence or if it's coming from the clutch. If I put the car in neutral and rev it it's not there, it's only when it's in gear.

Based on my understanding, the clutch is always in contact with the flywheel until the pedal is pressed so it shouldn't be the clutch disk or pressure plate as it only happens in gear. I'm going to put it up on stands when I get a chance and get under the car while someone does a few revs in gear and listen.

Any ideas before I get to that point? It's a rapid metal sound, almost like a card in your spokes but more metallic and a bit faster.

This video sounds close (this is not my car) but I only get this around 3k rpm in 2nd or 3rd (so far in testing) and it goes away higher in the revs. Clutch is fully out when it occurs.

Edited August 25, 2013 by ActionDan

[GTSBoy]

My bet is that the TO bearing is running under load. De-adjust the pedal a lot and see how it goes then.

[No Crust Racing]

I thought this too, BUT I had that rattle before I adjusted the pedal. The pedal adjust came after I rebuilt the slave and master and removed the damper, the noise was there before that, straight after the clutch swap.

When I get a chance I'll jack the rear up and do some testing and get under the car to record the noise and look around.

Any other ideas?

EDIT: That's not too say the pedal didn't already need adjustment though from everything having been replaced/new.

Edited August 26, 2013 by ActionDan

[No Crust Racing]

This is a good example of the sound also.

nd this one shows what it can also be, which makes sense.

spoke with Xtreme and they said bed it in for 1000ks before getting too worried, my concern being if there's a problem I don't want to make it worse by driving on it, especially when I want my next drive of the car to be a track day...

I didn't specifically test if any if the springs rattled but I don't recall hearing the clutch rattle when moving it around while fitting it.

I'll jack the rear up and try and mimic the sound and do some more isolation work and make sure it's not something lose somewhere.

[GTSBoy]

I didn't follow the link in your first post before. Having just done so now, that noise sounds dreadful, and is clearly not the throwout bearing rubbing all the time. It might be the bearing (in that video) being stuffed and making noise once it is loaded.

The FWD American shitbox one sounds like springs.

If yours is only doing it at a certain rpm range then it may be that there's a harmonic being driven at that engine speed. Does it do it with significant load (ie accel hard through those revs) or does it only do it at light load, or both?

Loose springs can sometimes be more of a symptom of the plate and centre not being free to move relative to each other and so the springs stay loose instead of applying force against the centre. On that basis Xtreme may well be right advising to drive it around a bit before getting too much more concerned. A little exercise might make things start to move properly against each other. I would try at least one semi-decent launch to see if a bit of shock will take care of it.

Edited August 26, 2013 by GTSBoy

[No Crust Racing]

It just "exists" at that point in the revs, if I drive through those revs quickly it goes away (If I recall) and if I approach those revs slowly you hear it gradually come in and stay if you sit on those revs.

Edited August 26, 2013 by ActionDan

[No Crust Racing]

Well I think I've found the first problem, when jacked up at the rear and started, while in neutral, the rear wheels start turning ever so slowly so I'm assuming I've got t too much preload on the clutch pedal and the TO bearing is dragging, sound about right?

I'm assuming the rear wheels should not move at all if everything is set correctly.

Edited August 26, 2013 by ActionDan

[GTSBoy]

Depending on the gearbox and the weight of the oil, there can be enough drag to transmit some drive enough to make lifted wheels turn. So your test isn't conclusive. But it could be the TO.

[No Crust Racing]

Yeah I'm reading its normal, I still think the TO might be preloaded from clutch pedal adjustment but I don't think I'll get time to play with that tonight.

[No Crust Racing]

I had a little time tonight to do some quick testing.

Checked the tailshaft and the marks were all aligned according to the paint marks.

Backed the clutch pedal right off to ensure there was no preload.

Removed the rubber grommet from the pivot fork hole and had a listen while it idled and took this video.

How does this sound to you guys?

I also had Kate rev the car for me in and around the rev point where the noise comes in and I could here "something" but it didn't sound as bad as it did the other day when I drove it.

I'll take it off the stands and take it for a drive and see if it was the clutch being too loaded up or if it needs to be actually driving to make the noise.

I used a screw driver to my ear and I can hear various noises from the bell housing but hard to tell if they are normal, there's definitely some thrust bearing noise but I thought all thrust bearings made "some" noise.

[No Crust Racing]

So I'm pulling it apart again, does anyone have any ideas on what I should look at when I get the box off. The rattle is most notable in the above clip after the 1min mark when I'm free revving it OUT of gear. You will have to turn the volume up though.

[No Crust Racing]

Sorry this video.

[No Crust Racing]

Guys take a look at this and tell me what you think.

This is the input shaft.

This is the clutch plate, the clutch plate doesn't do these when pressed up against the pressure plate thoughts?

I can't find any other issues, wear looks fine on everything, nothing appears uneven and everything was torqued correctly.

Thoughts?

[GTSBoy]

That input shaft wobble is normal. Spring rattle is normal, although it can be very annoying. It can be worth getting the springs redone to stop the rattle.

[No Crust Racing]

Has anyone else got any ideas for me before I just put it back together and hope for the best?

In that video above where I'm driving you can clearly here the noise (especially one min onwards) and I have no idea what it is or could be.

[No Crust Racing]

When speaking to a few clutch places they've all said similar things, that is, a rattle between the fork and TOB carrier, not enough preload on the fork to press the TOB against the pressure plate fingers and various combos of the fork rattling against the carrier/pivot ball.

A few have said the same thing in that the springs can rattle and always be rattle but never be an issue.

[No Crust Racing]

Mechanic mate came by and said everything looked fine to him, but he suggested I get a new spiggot, soak it in oil over night (whichi I forgot to do for the new installed one) and then he will make me a proper drift to install it so the edges aren't flared when i put it in like the new one (which i had touch up the lip with a file before the aligning tool would work).

I'm not really convinced this is the issue, but for the cost and effort I guess it can't hurt to try it.

There's also two springs in the clutch which would maybe be loose enough to rattle, but in gear they'd be under load and shouldn't yes?

Edited September 10, 2013 by ActionDan

[No Crust Racing]

So the awesomeness continues.

Removed the old spigot and installed the new one, all good on that front, clutch aligning tool fits no worries so didn't lip this one.

I noticed the old one had a notable mark on the outside of it, dunno if it was scored during install or it managed to spin inside the end of the end of the crank, I wouldn't think that was possible. Anyway the new one looked in better condition.

This is the old bearing, flash on and off so you can see the mark.

After finishing that, I moved on to cleaning the old grease off things ready for proper lithium grease, during the process I noticed that the thrust bearing didn't look like it was sitting square on the carrier, when checked with a level it looked low on one side, so I wondered if this was the cause of the rattle, or at least contributing.

Naturally, while trying to square it up I damaged the carrier. Good luck getting one of those around here tomorrow (as I wanted to finish this job off this weekend).

So I might as well get a new OEM full faced thrust bearing also and rule that out as well.

Anyone know if the SR and CA carriers are the same? I only found one thread with Taark saying they are different part numbers but they look identical.

[No Crust Racing]

Could only find an RB30 carrier locally and it was a different height so bought a second hand CA18 one, should have it next week.

[r31slpr]

Hey dan I chucked the same clutch in a mates car a few months ago (except its an sr20) and I got a message the other day saying he has some kind of rattle. The setup was exactly the same as yours, but new flywheel not machined.

The description he gave me sounds the same as yours, so it might be something common to Xtreme clutch's.

I'm going to check it out in a couple weeks, so hopefully I can help if you haven't figured yours out yet