Which Skyline Rear Diff Output Shafts Fit The S15 Spec-R Hlsd?

[TheOne]

Hey all, this is my first post here.

I'm from the US, and am building an LS3 powered 240SX coupe.

For the rear differential, I purchased a complete S15 Spec-R HLSD pumpkin which I will swap in.

The output shafts from the S15 differential have the 3x2 bolt pattern, and my only options for axles are the stock ones or really expensive ($1000+) custom ones. I am afraid I will blow the stock ones, so i need to think of a way to strengthen the rear up.

I just recently read on a few forums that the R34 GTR uses the same exact HLSD found in the S15, but it has the 6x1 output shafts.

Question #1:

Does anybody know if the S15 and R34 GTR output shafts have all the same dimensions, all except for the bolt pattern? Can I purchase a set of the R34 GTR HLSD output shafts, and swap them into the S15 pumpkin with no problems?

Question #2:

Is there another model which uses the same output shafts as the R34 GTR? Maybe the R33 or R32 GTR?

Question #3:

Has anybody broken the HLSD before? I should be around 400 WHP/ft-lb with sticky 255 summer only tires so I'm not sure how it'll stand up against backroads driving/auto-x/light drag racing/light track use.

Question #4:

If the R34 GTR output shafts are the ones I need, would anybody here be willing to sell them to me? I would pay for shipping of course.

Question #5:

Do you know how the width of the R34 GTR rear end (flange face to flange face) compares to the S15 HLSD? Is it the same?

I'm hoping I can swap these output shafts onto my S15 diff and have stronger axles.

[GTSBoy]

R34 GTR does not have an HLSD. Uses normal type LSD. Even if it did use an HLSD, it would have halfshafts and driveshafts with the same 6 bolt (6, evenly spaced, not 3x2 like S chassis cars) driveshafts as other all the other GTRs.

Some (only a few based on how few I've seen) later R34 GT-T had the same HLSD as the S15. These would have had half shafts that suited the HLSD centre but also had the normal Skyline 5 bolt pattern. Rare as hen's teeth in my opinion.

R chassis driveshafts are pretty much the same as S chassis driveshafts. The 3x2 are reputed to be weaker, but I can't see how.

I put an S15 HLSD centre into my R32 housing. Used the S15 half shafts that came with the centre. Used some S14 3x2 driveshafts to mate up to them. They fit straight into the Skyline hubs, same length, blah blah. I haven't really pushed them hard, but they've been fine. If you're aiming for 400whp, then you should be fine. It's not a lot of power/torque.

[TheOne]

http://www.skylinesaustralia.com/forums/topic/151921-s15-helical-lsd-into-non-lsd-stagea/

"Yep used the R34 output shafts with the S15 diff, fitted fine with no problems at all. "

"R34 GTR does not have an HLSD. Uses normal type LSD. Even if it did use an HLSD, it would have halfshafts and driveshafts with the same 6 bolt (6, evenly spaced, not 3x2 like S chassis cars) driveshafts as other all the other GTRs."

-> Yes, I want the 6 bolt evenly spaced halfshafts, not the 3x2 that my S13 has. I plan on running Q45 axles in the car.

The S chassis halfshafts are weaker because instead of using a ball and cage CV joint, it uses a tripod. The ears of the tripod seem to break, in addition to the the spline that goes into the hub. With the Q45 axles, I shouldn't run into that problem.

[GTSBoy]

Yes, but if you read the rest of my post....you can't have GTR style 6 bolt drive shafts because there aren't any half shafts to match them and the diff centre.

BTW....in local language:

Half shafts = the stub axles in the diff itself, with flanges to mate to the

Drive shafts = the the shafts that run from the diff to the hubs.

The CVs are in the driveshafts, not the half shafts.

This is just to make sure we understand each other.

FWIW, I have seen drift silvias with more power and torque and ridiculous driving styles not break their reputedly weaker CVs any faster than Skylines driven the same way. So I don't buy that they are significantly weaker. They make be weaker, but not drastically.

[TheOne]

I understand that some people may not have had problems with the axles, but I am building the car from scratch. I'd rather put up a little more money to eliminate the fear of breaking something.

Did you read the thread I posted above?

"Yes, but if you read the rest of my post....you can't have GTR style 6 bolt drive shafts because there aren't any half shafts to match them and the diff centre."

It didn't sound like you knew for sure if the R34 GTR non-V-Spec definitely did not come with the HLSD.

I found this thread here:

http://www.freshalloy.com/showthread.php/147112-Install-Guide-Q45-Differential-swap-into-240SX-subframe/page2

"If you want to upgrade your output flanges you can use the R34 Sklyine output flanges which are 6x1 and will work in the HLSD, ofcourse these gotta come from a HLSD equiped R34.

R34 HLSD output shafts
Part #'s
38220-0V771 (left)
38220-0V770 (right)"

Here is this too:

http://www.skylinesaustralia.com/forums/topic/379872-r34-gtr-or-r34-gtr-vspec/

"I own a non V-Spec 34 with 340awkw (no idea what that equates to in hp), and the extreme amount of traction actually makes it a lil boring... Wait till you push it a lil and you will find how grippy these mofo's are. The helical diff in the non V-Spec is actually a huge improvement over the viscous units, they promote better traction and keep the rear a lot straighter whilst wheelspinning. I had mine in rwd mode for a couple of weeks after a dyno run, even with 275's you really begin to appreciate what the 4wd system does

I have a later model (01-02), which means that i get the sexy black interior, better coloured brush aluminium console, alloy pedals, and white dials. The 2nd gen R34 GTR is definitely preferable to the 1st (arguably the 1st gen vspec too). You will eventually seek your own stiffer suspension, bigger rear brakes, and diffusers that you miss out on. VSpec II's are still very expensive in Aus. "

[TheOne]

http://www.skylinesaustralia.com/forums/topic/95568-helical-diff/?hl=+hlsd

"The S15 runs the eact same diff center as the R34 GTR.

S15 diff being weak; what power level with what tyres are we looking at SteveL? "

[TheOne]

http://www.skylinesaustralia.com/forums/topic/95568-helical-diff/page-3?hl=%20hlsd

"No idea really vspec or not..

The S15's brochure claims it runs the same helical diff as the R34 GTR. "

[GTSBoy]

Actually, I must retract what I said. I thought R34 GTR still had the same mech diff as older GTRs. According to the only semi-reliable info source I know of (http://www.nismo.co.jp/en/products/competition/lsd/pdf/lsd_price.pdf) the original rear diff in them IS actually a helical. So it probably does have the normal GTR 6 bolt half shafts, with the correct lengths to suit the helical centre.

One thing I would be careful of though is that there have always been other differences between normal Skyline/Silvia R200s and the GTR diffs. The GTRs have had bigger diameter and spline count stub axles. If this has been retained into the R34 GTRs, then while the diff may be mechanically the same (and it would be - there's no real reason for them to have made it different - they're plenty strong) there might be a difference between S15 and R34 GTR as to whether the stub axles will swap.

[TheOne]

Right, I understand what you're saying.

This is the exact reason why i made the thread. I want to know if the stub shafts from the R34 GTR can fit the S15 HLSD. If they can fit, and the overall width of the diff doesn't change, then this a great discovery for S-chassis owners for stronger axles while retaining the helical differential.

[TheOne]

Sounds like the GTR stubshafts are 30 spline based on this classifieds ad:

http://www.skylinesaustralia.com/forums/topic/402740-r34-gtr-stub-axle-half-shaft/

S15 HLSD pic from eBay

R34 GTR Stubs

Comparing those stubs to the S15, they look very similar, but I'm not sure if the lengths are similar.

[GTSBoy]

Internal lengths or eternal lengths?

[TheOne]

Both, I need to compare all dimensions that would make this feasible or not.

I need to know if the engagement length of the R34 splines is the same as the S15.

[TheOne]

Bump, anybody?

Nobody has a spare GTR diff that they can take a look at?

[ichi-go]

Not much help as i haven't done the conversion myself but is in the process of doing it for my s15, from the limited research i did when i was working out how to upgrade

Generally the only plug and play for S-chassis are from the gtst model, gtr driveshaft wouldn't fit the s15 diff afaik the splines are different on both end (diff and hub side)

Only way to use the gtr driveshaft is to swap the whole gtr rear end

The gtst half shaft is 6x1 but i believe is not as strong as the gtr driveshaft

[TheOne]

Not much help as i haven't done the conversion myself but is in the process of doing it for my s15, from the limited research i did when i was working out how to upgrade

Generally the only plug and play for S-chassis are from the gtst model, gtr driveshaft wouldn't fit the s15 diff afaik the splines are different on both end (diff and hub side)

Only way to use the gtr driveshaft is to swap the whole gtr rear end

The gtst half shaft is 6x1 but i believe is not as strong as the gtr driveshaft

In what way are the splines different for the gtr diff? Where did you get that info from?

Are there any parts dealers that can get part numbers at least?

[TheOne]

For the hub side splines, in the US there is the TT z32 and q45 hubs we can run. The only question I have is about the splines in the gtr diff

[[200]]

why don't you just ask on the nico forums or copy what other people are doing over there with q45 rear ends? why bother with gtr stuff when it would be hard for you to get? or just do what every other s15 owner does and use a r33 gts-t diff housing and pinion with r33 gtr crown wheel, sub axles and drive shafts. they bolt directly in to the s15 rear hubs

or just buy a complete r32 gtr subframe and put it all in, people run 8 second quarters with that stuff so 400 hp / 400 ft/lb isn't exactly anything decent that cause any concern.

[TheOne]

As I mentioned, I want to run the helical diff. The complete R33 rear end would be really expensive. That stuff isn't common in the US. Skylines alone are really uncommon in the US.

Again, the R32 stuff is also not common.

I want to try something different.

[GTSBoy]

You might find it easier to abandon the idea of using Nissan bits, and just go to a Quaife centre.

http://quaife.co.uk/sites/default/files/drawings/QDF7L.pdf

[TheOne]

Yeah but the Quaife is like $1K easy. I would only get a Quaife for a Q45 or 350Z center, but I want to see what my options are for the S15 center first.