R32Abuser

Cubes, car made that power on what I think was 15 PSI. Not 100% sure but will be finding out more today. Ill see if i can track down a dyno graph. Got some of the specs off Spool for the pistons, HG thickness etc. Will be speaking to the assembler today. I'll shoot you an email Joel with some more information. Will update later today! Cheers!

I See very little point arguing with someone (over a forum!) who refuses to listen to anything anyone else will say. I think we'll leave it as a case of you have your view, and I'll have mine. Rolls can take what both of us have said with a "grain of salt".

True. But the g/box mount and associated assembly would have more to do with the dampening of the vibration from the clutch/gearbox operation. It is, after all, made of rubber/polyurethane etc and significatly better at absorbing high frequencey vibration.

Here you say it yourself. Dowels are used to locate this assembly. If they weren't necessary, or a good thing to implement- why would they be there? As I stated in my previous post, there is an engineering reason for them. Torque causes rotations. The flywheel/clutch ASM rotates. What locates/fastens the clutch ASM to the flywheel? In the case of my RB it has both bolts and dowels. Ill ask you this, remove the bolts from the assembly so that only the dowels are present and locating the clutch/flywheel assembly. Assuming there is no axial load (forward and back relative to the crankshaft). Can the flywheel/clutch ASM still rotate? The simple answer is yes. The torque is being transferred via the dowels. The only reason for the bolts is to provide TENSION in the axial direction. As a secondary role, they CAN (are not designed to!) provide some locating mechanism if there is "slop" in this assembly. The dowels will also provide this function to provide locating if some "runout" is present in the asm. Ill ask you to remove the wheel studs on your car. Assuming everything is located as normal (minus the wheel studs) then applying your theory, the friction at the hub without the studs should transmit the SAME drive-shaft torque as if the wheel studs were there. This is definitely not the case. The fastening mechanism between the wheel hub and the wheels (stud and wheel nuts) is what transmits the torque. Not the friction between the hub and the mounting face of the wheel... As I stated in post #254 of "Need A New Clutch? And want it to last?" rule 1 of mechanical design a) one method for locating b) one method for fixing dowels get loaded in shear bolts in tension both do the best job they are designed for.

Rolls, here is the theory behind it. Firstly look up the Tresca Yield Criterion. To save you some time, I will state that the Max shear capacity of any material will be approximately 56.6% OR 57% of the Max tensile yield stress of that same material. Hence, it is abundantly clear, that for a given identical item being loaded in a) Shear or b) Tension: The item which is loaded in shear will fail FAR BEFORE the item loaded in tension. Now to the application: In your case you have your flywheel and clutch assembly. Now, what you must understand is that it is NOT the physical size of the dowels which is important (I do agree that they would have to be a given size otherwise they would fail, however this is another point of contention). The role of the dowel is to provide a method of LOCATION. I.e. a method for the flywheel/clutch assembly to positively locate its position. Then the role of the fasteners is to provide a method of FASTENING- IN TENSION!!! The problem is without the role of the dowel, the bolts will now be subjected to shear forces. They must: there is nothing else to transfer the torque exerted by the motor to the drive-train. The problem with this situation is that bolts (although they can, and in many cases are!) subjected to shear loads; they are significantly weaker in this stress mode (for reasons mentioned earlier). Not only are they weaker, but as a result of the threaded section, there is stress raisers/concentrators at EVERY ridge associated with each thread. Do you see the double weakness here in not utilising a dowel? The long and the short of it appears that it is just SOUND engineering practice to utilise dowels in this application and in similar situations. Im not saying that the assembly will fail, Im simply stating that you are using a setup which was not originally intended to be implemented. Hope that clears it all up

Yeh its weird tho... I dont think I ever had any problems with timing or the like on my RB20DET. And it was exactly the same unit used on this RB30DET. Strange...

Joel, I dont know whether you remember, but the turbo on this build is your old GT30 turbo off your RB30 "What power was it making even though you only saw 8degree's ignition timing?" Car made 207RWKW on the 8 degrees worth of timing. Got to drive it to the assemblers - Im in love "Mine with the std RB25DE cams was very much knife edge - it 'really' wanted to ping easily. RB25DE cams really aren't much chop, their specs are not ideal for turbo app." This may be one, if not the issue! But at only 8 degrees? "Ensure the CAS is ok - shove a timing light on her as you bring rev's up to ensure its not swaying timing as rpm increase, a faulty cas will cause det issues. (Darren I remember yours had this issue)" This will be checked subsequent to the compression test. Still though, I really doubt its the pistons and am hoping its simply just a timing issue. "You have a std exhaust manifold - The std exh manifold is T3 divided. t3 divided is larger than the single inlet of t3 gt30/gt35 inlet. Ensure you rip the exh. housing off and port match it to the t3 divided gasket. Don't think its ok to have that ridge there, it kills power." Did you do this to the exhaust housing on your old GT3076R? I can see it would hamper the flow considerably! Are you still running the std inlet manifold/plenum? I port matched the inlet manifold to the plenum as there was also 'some' runners that were out by a good 3-5mm. Substantial IMO to have some runners that are fine and others that are extremely poor. Yes. Still running standard inlet manifold/plenum. I would have thought that the engine builder/assembler would have picked this up and mentioned it if there was an issue. Ill be doing this aswell if that is the case. Theres not alot I can do at the moment due to it being the weekend. However, hopefully more information comes about in the coming week. Joel, if you dont have a problem with it, Ill contact you via the email address I have when I bought your old turbo off you. Just want to run a few things by you regarding these issues!

DVS Jez Head has been left standard besides a reconditioning. I am in the process of finding the specifics out with regards to the machinist (squish, deck height etc etc) and will have more answers tomorrrow/tuesday. Head gasket I BELIEVE is 1.2mm - But Im not 100%. Im talking to Brad from Spool Imports today to check all of this and to brainstorm what the problem could be. Rob82 Im unsure how they tested the CAS as I was not there. However, I suggested the CAS could have been a problem but they replied by saying that if that were the case they would have been getting funky readings/timing all over the rev range (which they weren't apparently). Problem is, If we do lock in 20 deg timing and take it to 6000RPM it will PING/KNOCK its head off and possibly cause damage. Something which I dont want to do. I will be suggesting the CAS sensor/assembly having an issue again. Thanks, the setup is pretty much identical to Cubes RB30 setup. In fact, it is his turbo which is bolted on the side of my motor I got to drive it between the tuners and the builder/assemblers. Made 207RWKW with 7-8 degrees worth of timing but still feels SOOOO responsive! GTSt Scott I agree. Many have used these pistons with no issues. Seems strange to see all of a sudden for the pistons to be an issue without anything else being changed. Duncan Will know the results of the compression test on monday I would say. Pity I dont have the car here to do it all myself. I will be updating this thread as soon as I know more. Tridentt150V AFR's Im unsure of. I will ask this come monday, but Im sure that the tuner would have mentioned something if there was a large issue in this area. Cheers for the replies! I will keep updating with as much news as possible to try and pinpoint the issue...

Using the R32 RB25DE standard cams. Standard spec. Timing belt was done in the position as per the RB30DOHC guide to my knowledge. Builder had the guide, and I told him many times to do the build as per the pdf. I did not set the timing. That will also be a point of contention to look at. Haven't got the compression test results back yet, will update as soon as I know. Builder is going back to the basics from what I have been told. I said the same thing tho, sounds timing based but not too sure...

All three heads (25DE/25DET/26DETT) cc up around the 62-64cc mark. Therefore there should be little to no difference in Static Comp. ratio between the three. Many have used these pistons in all 3 heads with no problems.

Hi all, So I have come to the culmination of my build and have hit a brick wall. Before I run through the problem, here is the spec. list: Parts R32 RB25DE head RB30 Series 2 bottom end RB26/30 CP Pistons 9:1 Static CR (CP pins, rings etc.) Spool RB30 Rods to suit. ARP fasteners ACL Race series bearings to suit above rods Standard Crank. Blueprinted/Balanced/Crack tested etc RB25DET Series II Oil Pump with extended drive "Snout" (Spool Imports) GT3076R 0.82 A/R Garret Turbocharger (Standard oil/water lines) Stiffer valve springs (unsure of brand) High Energy Style Sump + Head drain (big f**k off fitting on the back of the head) Standard valve train (Cams/gears/lifters etc) Cometic Head gasket (Spool Imports) GTR Waterpump 550cc Bosch EV14 Injectors Nismo Fuel Reg (Adj.) Nismo Engine Mounts/G-Box Mounts Bosch 040 Fuel Pump Nistune ECU Remap Labour Bore/Hone Block to suit CP Pistons Deck Block Grind/Blueprint Crankshaft Balance Pistons Micropolish Crankshaft Balance Motor Reconditioned Head Modify/Weld/Machine Head There is probably stuff I have left out but anyway onto the problem... So it came to tuning the motor up today. Car goes on the dyno, normal procedure run-in etc. Tune up starts, and the tuner finds a problem. No matter what he did, he could put more than about 8 degrees worth of timing advance in the motor until it would knock/ping/detonate. Generally I was told that 20 degrees is about right for these motors. Now there was several suggestions at this point: 1. Fuel - dropped the fuel in the tank. Replaced with 98 Octane BP Ultimate. Made no difference. 2. Faulty CAS/Timing sensor - Apparently nothing seems funky on this end of the spectrum so isn't something they think is wrong. 3. Static CR is too high - Pending a compression test (being done tomorrow). 4. Timing - Possibly the timing is out a tooth or two. Will check after the compression test. Is there anything else every one can suggest? With regards to the Stactic CR - I purchased these items from Spool Imports. They were quoted as the 9:1 CR Pistons alot of guys off here have used time and time again without any hassles. The only issue I see here is if the machinist as stuffed up somewhere and hasn't machined to suit the CP pistons. Has anyone else on here had any problems regarding these pistons? Is there anything anyone can suggest with regards to this portion of the build? All help will be greatly appreciated! Cheers, David

Hi all, So I have come to the culmination of my build and have hit a brick wall. Before I run through the problem, here is the spec. list: Parts R32 RB25DE head RB30 Series 2 bottom end RB26/30 CP Pistons 9:1 Static CR (CP pins, rings etc.) Spool RB30 Rods to suit. ARP fasteners ACL Race series bearings to suit above rods Standard Crank. Blueprinted/Balanced/Crack tested etc RB25DET Series II Oil Pump with extended drive "Snout" (Spool Imports) GT3076R 0.82 A/R Internal Wastgate Garret Turbocharger (Standard oil/water lines) Standard exhaust manifold Stiffer valve springs (unsure of brand) High Energy Style Sump + Head drain (big f**k off fitting on the back of the head) Standard valve train (Cams/gears/lifters etc) Cometic Head gasket (Spool Imports) GTR Waterpump 550cc Bosch EV14 Injectors Nismo Fuel Reg (Adj.) Nismo Engine Mounts/G-Box Mounts Bosch 040 Fuel Pump Nistune ECU Remap Labour Bore/Hone Block to suit CP Pistons Deck Block Grind/Blueprint Crankshaft Balance Pistons Micropolish Crankshaft Balance Motor Reconditioned Head Modify/Weld/Machine Head There is probably stuff I have left out but anyway onto the problem... So it came to tuning the motor up today. Car goes on the dyno, normal procedure run-in etc. Tune up starts, and the tuner finds a problem. No matter what he did, he could put more than about 8 degrees worth of timing advance in the motor until it would knock/ping/detonate. Generally I was told that 20 degrees is about right for these motors. Now there was several suggestions at this point: 1. Fuel - dropped the fuel in the tank. Replaced with 98 Octane BP Ultimate. Made no difference. 2. Faulty CAS/Timing sensor - Apparently nothing seems funky on this end of the spectrum so isn't something they think is wrong. 3. Static CR is too high - Pending a compression test (being done tomorrow). 4. Timing - Possibly the timing is out a tooth or two. Will check after the compression test. Is there anything else every one can suggest? With regards to the Stactic CR - I purchased these items from Spool Imports. They were quoted as the 9:1 CR Pistons alot of guys off here have used time and time again without any hassles. The only issue I see here is if the machinist as stuffed up somewhere and hasn't machined to suit the CP pistons. Has anyone else on here had any problems regarding these pistons? Is there anything anyone can suggest with regards to this portion of the build? All help will be greatly appreciated! Cheers, David

Rolls, When attaching anything to another object, "Sound Engineering Practice" requires that you have the following: 1) One method of locating (dowels/flange etc.) 2) One method for fastening (screw, nut/bolt etc) If it were me, I would not install the clutch/flywheel ASM without using this dowel as the fasteners will then be loaded in a way they were not originally designed for. Hence they MAY not be sized appropriately to the task and MAY fail Cheers, David

Yeh...problem is that I dont want to have to get another sway-bar since I have already paid for this upgraded one. Sure I could sell it, but its just another hassle I don't want to have to deal with. I think spacing the sway bar down will be the way to go. If necessary I will get those whiteline S Links. My standard links need replacing anyway. If I still have problems, guess the way forward will be to modify the sump, or get a new swaybar...neither of which I will like doing.

Well realistically speaking, the engine mounts have been modified as per the RB30DET PDF, so in saying that it should be clashing at a MAXIMUM of about 10-15mm. Car is at my engine builders as he is installing it, so dont have the car on hand to measure/take pictures. Just wondering if there are any other ideas other than the above mentioned fixes?

Hi all, Before the standard "Use the search function" response will be used - I have searched and there is very little regarding this issue using a OEM routed swaybar. This topic is regarding installing an RB30DET into a R32 GTST. Currently, my sump (High Energy style) is clashing with my sway bar. My engine mounts have been modified as per the PDF (potentially slightly lower engine position) but this has led to the sump hitting the Whiteline sway bar (SK group buy spec). My question is what have people done to get around this issue? On initial glance, my solution would be to space the sway bar down at the chassis mounts. Use a longer bolt and washer. The only issue I can see is that the link pins/drop links will no longer be long enough. However, this is easily overcome by either modifying the standard links or purchasing aftermarket ones. The only practical downside I can see from that is the sway bar may end up lower than the cross member which in the vent of bottoming the car out, the sway bar will scrape/bend. So long as the link pins are actuating the sway bar perpendicular to the lever arm on the sway bar, kinematically I see no change. Any other ideas/options? All input appreciated. Cheers, David

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ +1 Why not weigh up the pro's and cons of going for each setup? I.e. RB30DET vs RB25DET vs RB22DET You'd be surprised- I have a mate with a legally registered R32 with an RB25 which is not engineered. Thats in SA tho...

$1000 without tyres? PM me if interested...

HCR32 Nismo Engine mounts Part No: 11221-RS585 PM or sms me on 0401 317 009

Gearbox sold pending deposit/payment Engine up for sale.

Gearbox sold pending deposit. Engine back up for sale.

Gearbox up for sale... Engine has been removed from sale except for extenuating circumstances. PM me for info.

G/Box back up for sale since buyer would not pay deposit. Clutch Cover/Flywheel required so have been removed from sale. Price still as per above. Engine no longer available.

In for next GB!

Wanted: R32 GTR Rear Guards R32 GTR Front Guards R32 GTR Indicators