R32Abuser

His setup is more or less what I based my choice of equipment on. Its only since hitting issues that things have changed. All I am doubting is the fact that the motor can be timed incorrectly 2-4 times. It just doesn't seem likely Power goal is 300RwKw but the main thing is the torque. I was hoping to make around 200 rwkw by 4000-4500 RPM...might be a little ambitious in wanting that

To my knowledge, all those who made power with standard cams did so with RB25DE cams. Since we thought that these were part of the previous issue of detonating, we replaced them with the RB20DET cams. However, I think maybe the issue was that the motor was timed incorrectly previously as opposed to the camshafts causing the detonation. In hindsight, this could have been a bad move, however, my intentions were always to upgrade my cams to aftermarket units/regrinds. Now the question is...Do I go for a set (which are available now) of Tomei 256deg/8.5mm IN/EX camshafts for $700 and get adjustable cam gears for an extra $250 odd? OR Do I go with custom regrinds (of GTR camshafts) which Cubes (Joel) went for - 264deg/9mm IN/EX from Tighe Engineering for about $500 with a set of adjustable cam gears?

Ok so just got off the phone with the builder... Him and Darren Lewis from Lewis Engines reckon it's the camshafts restricting the power. Darren said that he had tried this combination (RB30DET + RB20DET cams) once before (slight differences) and had this same issue robbing the motor of upto 50kW. I tend to agree as earlier today when the car was on the dyno, no matter how much boost was put into the motor, the power would simply not budge (if anything it would lose power). Considering that both the exhaust and airbox were pretty much eliminated from the equation, to me these symptoms reflect the motor struggling to breathe and hence make decent power. This then could point to one or two problems. Camshafts or Camshaft timing... The motor nosed over HARD. It would make 210kW by at 5000 RPM (this is simply peak, motor may of been making that for 500-1000 RPM before that for all I know!), but then would drop down to 170 kW by 5500RPM. Bare in mind my limiter will be set at 7000RPM! From the guys with experience/tuners, does any of this seem off? Or is new camshafts + adjustable gears the most advisable avenue to go down to fix this problem?

http://www.skylinesaustralia.com/forums/topic/104332-rb30-hybrid-upgrade-all-dyno-results/page__st__20__p__3299027#entry3299027 FYI

Cube's old GT3076R.... GT3076R .6 Port Shroud Comp Cover .82 Internal Gate 3" turbo back exhaust, Bell mouth 3" dump Dont have the CHRA number on hand. Can get that for you though when I see the car... Been talking to Sydneykid and he said that there isnt one RB30 he has built that hasn't needed timing adjustment. In this case I spoke to my builder and he said that at most it would be out a tooth but he also mentioned than although the lines are 100% spot on...they are barely noticeable out of alignment. Adjustable cam gears possibly an option?

Dropping the exhaust and the airbox made no difference Looking into the problem with the builder...Possible cam timing issue!?

Sooo...The plot thickens! Exhaust dropped - Car made no extra power (210kW) Airbox dropped - Car made no extra power (210kW) Cam timing will be looked into...Builder is doing the rounds for some opinions for this problem. Very Frustrating

He doesnt have one does he? I know I have his front/dump pipe from his old setup. Or are you saying you have one? Care to elaborate?

Yup. I knew it would be touch an go with a 3". Has been done before, but figured I would just sneak it in. We'll see if its the restriction come Monday (dyno that was supposed to be used on Friday was unfortunately occupied all day due to a head gasket failure and prep. for a race on the weekend Either way, I'm looking for a more conservative 3.5" cat-back system. Anyone know of a 3.5" off the shelf cat back exhaust which is not too harsh on the ears (read: retains a centre muffler!)?

IMO a 4" thick intercooler and 3" piping is overkill for your power level. Obviously this will depend on what your using it for (street/track/drift/dyno queen). Either way, the time/airflow required to pressurise/fill these pipes would kill your delivery if you were aiming for near stock spool times. I assume that was what you were aiming for with the GT3076R turbo choice? 6Boost plenums from what I have read tend to promote power generation higher up in the RPM range as opposed to down low. So yes, this would not help your cause either.

DVS JEZ The pinging/knocking issue was alleviated once we fit the RB20DET cams, new CAS, and re-timed the motor. Which one solved the issue I don't know. Im just glad it is no longer pinging to be honest and the fact that the pistons weren't the issue after all Intake setup is as the following pictures: No rubber intake to turbo. Solid 3" aluminium pipe. Other than that, standard on the intake side besides a hole in the airbox. Possibly routing a big arse PVC (painted black) pipe setup straight into the airbox. May do this if it becomes an issue for power. Dyno Im unsure of but here is the link to the site: http://www.morpowa.com/dyno_dynamics.html Tyres are as follows: R: 235/45/R17 Bridgestone Potenza RE001 Adrenalin. Practically brand new. kitto Standard RB20DET cams. Possibly upgrading to custom re-grinds down the track pending how this setup goes. sriver killer I haven't driven it myself, but from what Im told drives very well. Nothing too ball tearing as its down considerably on power, but torquey as! Apparently (according to Cubes) this turbo will hit full boost 16PSI by about 2800-3000RPM. Overall this could be a cam issue. If dropping the exhaust/intake doesn't fix the issue, we will be checking the timing again to make sure.

Hi all, I was having issues with my RB30DET related to knocking/pining. http://www.skylinesa...1076-rb2530det/ These issue have been fixed now, however now I have a new problem. My setup will simply not make the power it should/did on another car. Its as if it is hitting a power "ceiling". My setup is as per below: Parts R32 RB25DE head RB30 Series 2 bottom end RB26/30 CP Pistons 9:1 Static CR (CP pins, rings etc.) Spool RB30 Rods to suit. ARP fasteners ACL Race series bearings to suit above rods Standard Crank. Blueprinted/Balanced/Crack tested etc RB25DET Series II Oil Pump with extended drive "Snout" (Spool Imports) GT3076R 0.82 A/R Garret Turbocharger (Standard oil/water lines) Stiffer valve springs (unsure of brand) High Energy Style Sump + Head drain (big f**k off fitting on the back of the head) Standard valve train (RB20DET) (Cams/gears/lifters etc) Cometic Head gasket (Spool Imports) GTR Waterpump 550cc Bosch EV14 Injectors Nismo Fuel Reg (Adj.) Nismo Engine Mounts/G-Box Mounts Bosch 040 Fuel Pump Nistune ECU Remap Labour Bore/Hone Block to suit CP Pistons Deck Block Grind/Blueprint Crankshaft Balance Pistons Micropolish Crankshaft Balance Motor Reconditioned Head Modify/Weld/Machine Head Now no matter how much boost, timing, fuel etc. the tuner threw at the motor, the car will just not make anything more than about 210-220RWKW. Don't get me wrong its decent, but its no where near where it should be. This exact turbo on Cube's RB30 made (on standard RB25DE cams) 260RWkW. Id expect something a little less than this considering that I'm running RB20DET cams instead. I would also expect it to make it on less boost considering that I have a higher static compression ratio than him. To my knowledge the motor is running 20-22deg ignition timing on full noise, 18PSI Boost, and the AFR's are sitting between 11-12:1. Run more timing and the thing wants to ping but make no more power. Run more boost and it makes little to no (few kW) difference in power and just generates more heat. Run more/fuel (within reason!) and it only makes a few kW difference in power. Another interesting fact was that previously when the motor was knocking, it was making 220kW on approximately 8 degrees worth of ignition timing. Which to me would seem as tho the car had been incorrectly timed (CAS error etc.) and that the motor was ACTUALLY seeing something closer to 20 deg of ignition timing. But I cant state that for sure... We are dropping the exhaust/intake to see if there is a restriction in there somewhere limiting the setup. Failing this...Is there any other ideas/experiences that people have had hitting this "ceiling" with similar setups on RB20/25/26/30's?

Rolls.... I dont have a pod. I have a K&N Filter in a standard airbox. This has a CAI ducted to it aswell. Ido09s.... Thats the plan. Dropping the exhaust friday and we'll find out what's what.

CC your head yourself. Its the only way to know for sure what cc you combustion chamber ACTUALLY has....

I have no mufflers besides the cannon at the rear of the car. Its a full 3" from the turbo back (custom dump/front pipe) to the 200/300 cell cat. then its straight back to the cannon besides an Apexi ECV (exhaust valve for noise). This item has been checked and assured that the "butterfly" valve is in the full open position. I still reckon its a restriction on the intake side somewhere. Just a hunch tho...

Brand new cat converter. 300 cell rings a bell. Been used before by others to make more power than I have shot for.

Nope. Here in Adelaide we do not have a drag strip even if I wanted to take my car down the 1/4 Mile. 10-20kW, even 30kW maybe at a BIG stretch...but not 60kW. From what I've been told, its definitely down on power compared to what it should be by the "Seat of the pants" dyno.

Nope. All intake side pipes are of metallic construction. Exhaust will be done on Friday...

Ok....long time since an update! Sooooo good news and bad news Good news is the detonation issue has been fixed. The appropriate amount of timing can be wound into the motor with little to no detonation what so ever (~20-22 deg). The only items we changed were the CAS, camshafts, and re-timed the motor. So one of these items fixed the issue. Which one...I'm guessing CAS & Re-timing the motor would have fixed the issue. Plenty of guys running standard camshafts with no issues with pinging. Bad news is now it wont make the power this setup should. Running 17PSI, 20-22 degrees worth of timing and the setup listed in the original post, it won't make over 210-220 RWKW. This setup (almost identical to Cubes) made 250-260RWKW so my result is well short of what I was expecting. For a kickoff, the cooler piping has been complete checked etc. for a rogue oily rag or debris etc. Next move will be to drop the exhaust and removed the airbox to see if there is a restriction on either the intake or exhaust end. I HIGHLY doubt there being a restriction on either of these items as plenty of others have run these with no issues at these power levels. Anyone else got any experience/ideas? God this car is driving me crazy!

Hi mate, just interested in the HKS cam gear(S). Is it just the intake side gear? Or both? PM me ASAP Cheers, David

Sometime between Monday and Wednesday - getting cheap/free dyno time and shouldnt take long to diagnose whether the issue is still evident. Worst part is the waiting...

Dale, cheers for the response. I've spoken to Cubes directly and he mentioned that the 25DE cams did make the motor more prone to pinging when placed in comparison to his set of R32 GTR RB26 regrind cams. But by no means did he experience this phenomena to the extent which I have. This makes me think its not a single issue, but part of a bigger collection of problems. What exactly, I dont know though?! What you said makes sense in my head, but either way I guess the end result is what is important. Hopefully something positive results from next week's dyno With regards to adjustable cam gears, no, I do not have a set on the motor. I have been looking into getting a set recently, but never made it in time before the builder put the new camshaft set-up back together. Guess if we take the head off, it will be the time to chuck a set at the car.

Agreed But with that in mind, why will cams with a wider LCA have a lesser tendencey to knock/ping etc.? Fair few blokes on here have reported that the 25DE cams have caused the motor to be more prone to pinging. Any further ideas on what I have said above or new theories? Like I said I'm simply hypothesizing

Refering to the RB30DOHC pdf: HCR32 RB20DET Camshafts Duration IN 240 deg EX 240 deg Lift IN 7.8mm EX 7.8mm LCA IN 115 deg EX 120 deg HCR32 RB25DE Camshafts Duration IN 240 deg EX 232 deg Lift IN 7.8mm EX 7.3mm LCA IN 111 deg EX 118 deg Red is obviously the variations between the two camshafts. The main difference is between the Lobe centre angle (LCA) which, from what I have read, a larger LCA value creates less valve overlap. If I think about it, having more valve overlap would allow more intake charge to enter the motor during the exhaust stroke which would allow more fuel to sit in the chamber for a given duration of time. Not 100% sure on the effect of this but one would think this would create a greater tendencey to pre-ignite on any hot surface. Could be VERY wrong in this regard however! Yeh Im pretty sure he timed it before using a timing light. You would ASSUME! From what I was told, the timing wasn't scattered before hand, or at least it wasn't horribly bad. The problem was last time they tried to wind timing into it, it would ping...So he left it with bugger all timing to make sure it would ping as least as possible.

+1 Fixed my issues. However, if you put too much on it makes it difficult to open the door. Solution: get genuine door latches/hooks with the rubber on it.